5/3/1

Joliver · Dec 28, 2013

I have been running into more and more of these 5/3/1 guys. They are everywhere.

This is a serious thread, not a bash-fest.

In my opinion, I don't know that "enhanced" lifters need the time away from the progression, but I want to hear it from the guys that do it.

Lets hear it Wendler guys:

Why do you run 5/3/1?

Have you ever used any other strength philosophies?

How has it helped you to have such a large percentage of your training in a de-loading phase?

Do you compete?

j2048b · Dec 28, 2013

no competing for me at all,

it has helped me not get injured as much as i have in the past... have i gotten injured, yup, but thats from me trying to add weight too damn quickly, and prolly because i suck at lifting

my trainer had me work up to a 5/3/1 wendler style and i liked it, my numbers steadily went up and it did not take me forever to finish a workout... gonna start back again after the new year as he is on vaca...

ive used a lot of strip sets when i was younger and in college and it made me strong as hell, ive tried a ton of different programs but seem to fail for some reason or another, usually due to an injury as im not built to be a powerlifter...

even tho i have a ton of the books and a harddrive full of info im always suffer from paralysis by analysis,

so i went with 5/3/1 and havent really ventured out since last september.... some of us are not "enhanced" lifters

JOLIVER:

y do u seem "against" 5/3/1?
do u compete?
what strength philosophies do u side with?
are the ones u side with based upon how u respond to a certain stimuli? or because u chose to try something and forced urself to adapt?

and what do u mean by this question?:

How has it helped you to have such a large percentage of your training in a de-loading phase?

Joliver · Dec 28, 2013

J20 said:
no competing for me at all,

it has helped me not get injured as much as i have in the past... have i gotten injured, yup, but thats from me trying to add weight too damn quickly, and prolly because i suck at lifting

my trainer had me work up to a 5/3/1 wendler style and i liked it, my numbers steadily went up and it did not take me forever to finish a workout... gonna start back again after the new year as he is on vaca...

ive used a lot of strip sets when i was younger and in college and it made me strong as hell, ive tried a ton of different programs but seem to fail for some reason or another, usually due to an injury as im not built to be a powerlifter...

even tho i have a ton of the books and a harddrive full of info im always suffer from paralysis by analysis,

so i went with 5/3/1 and havent really ventured out since last september.... some of us are not "enhanced" lifters

JOLIVER:

y do u seem "against" 5/3/1?
do u compete?
what strength philosophies do u side with?
are the ones u side with based upon how u respond to a certain stimuli? or because u chose to try something and forced urself to adapt?

and what do u mean by this question?:

How has it helped you to have such a large percentage of your training in a de-loading phase?

J20, I didn't intend to sound antagonistic. Sorry if it came off that way. The question was intended for enhanced lifters. If you are not, then you may need the DL phase, and my post wasn't intended for you.

I am not against the 5/3/1 program, but it seems like there are other programs are so much better that I am curious as to why this particular program has such a large following.

As for me:
Yes, I compete.
I follow westside/Russian/Bulgarian training philosophies.
I follow the philosophy that has a track record of making champions. Wendler himself was a Westsider once. I conformed to the philosophy with great success.

Now what I meant by the last question was this: De-loading is a prolonged period of very little maximal strength stimulation. Do you think it helps?

That response was a bit more "spirited" than I had anticipated. Apparently the 531 guys are ardent followers of the program. But in the spirit of holiday fighting, it was wendler himself that said:

"My best powerlifting accomplishment in the 275-pound weight class was a 1,000-pound squat, 675-pound bench press, 700-pound deadlift, and a 2,375 total. No, I wasn't strong at all! Sure, I could waddle up to the monolift and squat, but I couldn't do anything else. Really, all I could do was squat, bench, and deadlift. Today I have different aspirations. I want to be able to do a bunch of different activities and still kick ass in the weight room. I want to be as mobile, flexible, strong, and in as good a condition as I possibly can. That's how I came up with 5/3/1."

Flexibility is for Haitian hookers.

Now sir, you may return fire....

Tren4Life · Dec 28, 2013

I run it cause it's simple I have the app for my phone and it does the work for me. It tells me how many reps I need to get to beat my pr. Even if I only beat it by one rep I'm stronger than I was last week. I like to go slow and steady.
My first meet will be in April. I can't wait!!!!

Joliver · Dec 28, 2013

Steelers4Life said:
I run it cause it's simple I have the app for my phone and it does the work for me. It tells me how many reps I need to get to beat my pr. Even if I only beat it by one rep I'm stronger than I was last week. I like to go slow and steady.
My first meet will be in April. I can't wait!!!!

That is an excellent reason. Get too caught up in the gears and cogs of an overly complex BS routine, and you may forget to lift. I have been there.

Good luck in your meet!

AlphaD · Dec 28, 2013

Dont compete and dont plan too. I ran the 5/3/1 program multiple times. It helped me move my dl back up to 450 after I hurt the muscles in my lower back. Its a great program to increase the poundages on the big lifts. I see nothing wrong with the program, everything works until it doesn't. So it's a good change to routine.

DieYoungStrong · Dec 28, 2013

I've always had good success with it. I just program the lifts slightly different, trying to increase weight quicker, while on.

I'll also do more bb type accessory movements to bring up my physique, and dial back the volume to something more manageable when off.

It makes for a nice mix. I don't compete btw.

Joliver · Dec 28, 2013

DieYoungStrong said:
I've always had good success with it. I just program the lifts slightly different, trying to increase weight quicker, while on.

I'll also do more bb type accessory movements to bring up my physique, and dial back the volume to something more manageable when off.

It makes for a nice mix. I don't compete btw.

So what kind of percentages do you work from while on/off?

Seeker · Dec 28, 2013

I ran it once for 7 months. Yes, it did increase my pr's but s little bit. But ill admit there were a number of occasions that I found myself struggling with boredom and the feeling that I was leaving the gym with too much gas in the tank. And yes, the deload weeks seemed to often to soon. That's just me though. Im not saying I wouldn't reccommend it, I would. It was just to slow, and to boring for me.

j2048b · Dec 28, 2013

joliver said:
J20, I didn't intend to sound antagonistic. Sorry if it came off that way. The question was intended for enhanced lifters. If you are not, then you may need the DL phase, and my post wasn't intended for you.

I am not against the 5/3/1 program, but it seems like there are other programs are so much better that I am curious as to why this particular program has such a large following.

As for me:
Yes, I compete.
I follow westside/Russian/Bulgarian training philosophies.
I follow the philosophy that has a track record of making champions. Wendler himself was a Westsider once. I conformed to the philosophy with great success.

Now what I meant by the last question was this: De-loading is a prolonged period of very little maximal strength stimulation. Do you think it helps?

That response was a bit more "spirited" than I had anticipated. Apparently the 531 guys are ardent followers of the program. But in the spirit of holiday fighting, it was wendler himself that said:

"My best powerlifting accomplishment in the 275-pound weight class was a 1,000-pound squat, 675-pound bench press, 700-pound deadlift, and a 2,375 total. No, I wasn't strong at all! Sure, I could waddle up to the monolift and squat, but I couldn't do anything else. Really, all I could do was squat, bench, and deadlift. Today I have different aspirations. I want to be able to do a bunch of different activities and still kick ass in the weight room. I want to be as mobile, flexible, strong, and in as good a condition as I possibly can. That's how I came up with 5/3/1."

Flexibility is for Haitian hookers.

Now sir, you may return fire....

Haha

I believe the deload works for me because im not a seasoned powerlifter, nor do i ever plan to compete, i like the simplicity, as well as the slow gains ive obtained until i got re injured, my numbers suck as ive not been consistant thru the years and this program has allowed me to be able to gain strength back and be consistant...

Now id love to try ws, but ive never been really coached as to how to run it! I know the speed work along with the other portions would provably make me stronger, but as i said above

If my trainer sees a good fit for me then i may try it but in order for me to get stronger i will stay w 5/3/1 or do what i had intended which ill post up in a different thread to see what others think!

DieYoungStrong · Dec 28, 2013

joliver said:
So what kind of percentages do you work from while on/off?

I push all the last sets for as many reps as possible each week, and I think he says to move maxes up 5 pounds for upper body and 10 lbs for lower. I double it to 10 and 20 and it works for me.

I'm no elite powerlifter though. I've given the cube method a try, and if I was a competitive powerlifter, I think I'd be doing that instead. I don't do board presses Or chain and band work. I think that stuff definitely needs to be incorporated when running something like west side or cube, but you don't need it with 5/3/1. 5/3/1 is a very basic program that works and the gains are slow and steady.

Tren4Life · Dec 28, 2013

joliver said:
That is an excellent reason. Get too caught up in the gears and cogs of an overly complex BS routine, and you may forget to lift. I have been there.

Good luck in your meet!

I don't like to have to remember what I'm supposed to be doing next. It breaks my concentration. I hate having to write shit down too and watching the clock for a time sucks too. When I go to the gym I like to get something accomplished to justify getting out of bed at 3 am. It would take me to long to adjust to a new program. Would I try a different program ? Sure but I'm a creature of habit and I hate change so it would take me a while to adjust.

Joliver · Dec 28, 2013

J20 said:
Haha

I believe the deload works for me because im not a seasoned powerlifter, nor do i ever plan to compete, i like the simplicity, as well as the slow gains ive obtained until i got re injured, my numbers suck as ive not been consistant thru the years and this program has allowed me to be able to gain strength back and be consistant...

Now id love to try ws, but ive never been really coached as to how to run it! I know the speed work along with the other portions would provably make me stronger, but as i said above

If my trainer sees a good fit for me then i may try it but in order for me to get stronger i will stay w 5/3/1 or do what i had intended which ill post up in a different thread to see what others think!

One thing I will say for 531 is that you actually see a lot of people doing it....as opposed to hobbling around with a cane talking about getting back to good. And I do believe that simplicity makes for a robust program.

When I read Louie Simmons' WS principles for the first time, I scratched my head for a few weeks. Eventually, I made it my own. It took a minute. Add the fact that louie is a bumbling boob in most of the videos that I found made it difficult to visualize at first. Speed/dynamic work was the most difficult portion of the program to grasp at first. But you fall into it.

Thanks for the insight.

PillarofBalance · Dec 28, 2013

joliver said:
One thing I will say for 531 is that you actually see a lot of people doing it....as opposed to hobbling around with a cane talking about getting back to good. And I do believe that simplicity makes for a robust program.

When I read Louie Simmons' WS principles for the first time, I scratched my head for a few weeks. Eventually, I made it my own. It took a minute. Add the fact that louie is a bumbling boob in most of the videos that I found made it difficult to visualize at first. Speed/dynamic work was the most difficult portion of the program to grasp at first. But you fall into it.

Thanks for the insight.

My own program has a foundation in west side. Percentages are worked weekly in 3 week waves.

One big difference is no ME days. When the rep work gets easier and I know in my gut I have more gas I bump my training max.

Other differences include less swapping out of exercises. I will use the same accessories for 2 or 3 waves so long as I progress.

My accessories are closer to a bodybuilding range of repetition as well. I don't do 5 or 3 ' s on accessories but that is mostly because I tend not to have weak points in a lift from a muscular standpoint. My issues tend to be technical.

I don't deload ever since I am only maxing in a meet. My 60 percent days i suppose would qualify as a deload.

Finally I tend not to box squat as often as I free squat.

I do use a broad range of dynamic methods that include chains bands reverse bands and even gear like a shirt or deadlift suit.

Steelers4life will be running this program to prep for his meet in April just prior to his peaking cycle of 4 weeks. He will make fast steady progress and remain injury free. I hope he logs it here.

Why anyone would stray from a program written with principles from the greatest powerlifters in the world is beyond me.

NbleSavage · Dec 28, 2013

Steelers4Life said:
I don't like to have to remember what I'm supposed to be doing next. It breaks my concentration. I hate having to write shit down too and watching the clock for a time sucks too. When I go to the gym I like to get something accomplished to justify getting out of bed at 3 am. It would take me to long to adjust to a new program. Would I try a different program ? Sure but I'm a creature of habit and I hate change so it would take me a while to adjust.

Are we twins? Damn, you just described me exact philosophy on early morning training.

Joliver · Dec 28, 2013

PillarofBalance said:
My own program has a foundation in west side. Percentages are worked weekly in 3 week waves.

One big difference is no ME days. When the rep work gets easier and I know in my gut I have more gas I bump my training max.

Other differences include less swapping out of exercises. I will use the same accessories for 2 or 3 waves so long as I progress.

My accessories are closer to a bodybuilding range of repetition as well. I don't do 5 or 3 ' s on accessories but that is mostly because I tend not to have weak points in a lift from a muscular standpoint. My issues tend to be technical.

I don't deload ever since I am only maxing in a meet. My 60 percent days i suppose would qualify as a deload.

Finally I tend not to box squat as often as I free squat.

I do use a broad range of dynamic methods that include chains bands reverse bands and even gear like a shirt or deadlift suit.

Steelers4life will be running this program to prep for his meet in April just prior to his peaking cycle of 4 weeks. He will make fast steady progress and remain injury free. I hope he logs it here.

Why anyone would stray from a program written with principles from the greatest powerlifters in the world is beyond me.

I have done something similar with the removal one ME day for each lift per micro-cycle (two weeks). The removed ME day is replaced with either ballistic lifting or a repetition day.

I use the box squat once per meso-cycle (6 weeks), but as I close in on a meet, I tend to focus on the box squat a bit more. The box squat better replicates my groove with predator briefs and my leviathan suit. Shameless inzer plug....

My dynamic work looks to be the same as yours POB....though I am sure I look cooler doing it.

stonetag · Dec 28, 2013

My best powerlifting accomplishment in the 275-pound weight class was a 1,000-pound squat, 675-pound bench press, 700-pound deadlift, and a 2,375 total.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know this is off subject but jeesuz JOliver those are some fukin savage numbers! I will never cross you ever..ever

stonetag · Dec 28, 2013

Ok that wasn't you still savage LOL

Joliver · Dec 28, 2013

stonetag said:
Ok that wasn't you still savage LOL

I can curl the 35lb dumbbells....that savage enough for ya!?!?!?

stonetag · Dec 28, 2013

lol yeah pretty savage! I lost my damn reading glasses. I guess I can cross you now...haha

5/3/1

E-Fighter Extraordinaire

Elite

E-Fighter Extraordinaire

Elite

E-Fighter Extraordinaire

Elite

Elite

E-Fighter Extraordinaire

Veteran

Elite

Elite

Elite

E-Fighter Extraordinaire

Elite

Veteran

E-Fighter Extraordinaire

Elite

Elite

E-Fighter Extraordinaire

Elite

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