Discussion on programming

Strength athlete · Dec 21, 2015

I hope that everyone has been having a terrific holiday season. I was just curious to know the personal preferences of the trained members here regarding load, and volume regulation. When programming a training block, who prefers controlling loads by a set scheme of sets/reps compared to the percentage of their 1rm, and who prefers to use the auto regulation methods utilized in rpe style training (load drops, fatigue percents, etc.), or even a combination of both styles. I have used both styles of training with success, and was just curious to see what others here feel give them the best results. I know this question leaves a broad range of possibilities unaccounted for when discussing program design, but for a summarized approach, what do you feel has been the most beneficial towards your training goals.

BiologicalChemist · Dec 21, 2015

Strength athlete said:
I hope that everyone has been having a terrific holiday season. I was just curious to know the personal preferences of the trained members here regarding load, and volume regulation. When programming a training block, who prefers controlling loads by a set scheme of sets/reps compared to the percentage of their 1rm, and who prefers to use the auto regulation methods utilized in rpe style training (load drops, fatigue percents, etc.), or even a combination of both styles. I have used both styles of training with success, and was just curious to see what others here feel give them the best results. I know this question leaves a broad range of possibilities unaccounted for when discussing program design, but for a summarized approach, what do you feel has been the most beneficial towards your training goals.

As you said both styles work. I've always approached my training with structured full body split muscle routine 6-7 days a week with a range of reps/sets..but over the years I've ditched the reps/set range and just workout each muscle as many for as long as I feel like I need to, until failure. I always work up heavy first to the weight I can rep 8, 10 or 12 for the heaviest with proper form. I try to hit this heavy max rep range for at least 3 sets. Then I'll begin to work down (pyramid/superset) some times with 30-60 second rest until I can barely push the weight at a light load. I always try to use high volume on all my lifts but also get lighter higher reps in there. Sometimes I'll even go heavier at 5-6 reps but still include the lighter weights till failure. Depending on the day I like to get my heavy lifts done first, squats, dead's, chest press, back, shrugs and work the smaller muscle isolation exercises after. For me the key is not neglecting any muscle groups and training them all with equal intensity along with diet. No matter what routine you're on anyone should grow.

bigben66 · Dec 21, 2015

Depends on your goals OP...

Are you training for strength, or hypertrophy?

Cutting or bulking?

Strength athlete · Dec 21, 2015

Your style of training sounds very similar to what I use when taking a block away from my standard programming. I will use varying exercises at many different rep ranges while trying to increase total volume over the designated time frame that I have set. From the obvious point of increasing working capacity in the muscle groups associated with the competition lifts, it has also allowed my body to recover from the beating I had been placing on it. I however have found that I can only use this style of training for a maximum of 5-6 weeks before my competition lifts begin to drop significantly. The longer I stay away from training the low, and mid ranges in the actual competition lifts, the more my absolute strength drops in the big 3. I am fairly certain that it has more to do with deterioration in psychoneural factors more so than actual physiological changes. Thank you for sharing your training style in such detail. Its responses such as yours that make this site great.

PillarofBalance · Dec 21, 2015

Auto regulation tends to bring about much quicker results as it allows you to lift what you want/can. Going by a % 1rm will bring steady progress but a bit slower usually.

Some haven't figured out how to create periodization with their rpe or rir systems and therefore it becomes linear progression. After some time progress will stop or go back just as you have seen.

Undulating assistance lifts, sets and reps and rpe of competition lifts will avoid this problem altogether.

One option is if you tend to do only 1 to 2 meets per year then do %1rm training in the off season and use rpe to peak. Or the opposite.

I tend to run my clients on a system that keeps them conditioned for a heavy triple. This way they can jump into a meet with only a few weeks notice. Tapering to a single is quick and almost painless.

ToolSteel · Dec 21, 2015

After my meet I'm gonna run the Back to Base X program. Heard it's pretty wild.

DF · Dec 21, 2015

The hell did he just say?

DieYoungStrong · Dec 21, 2015

I like DUP with the RPE system, but I train with Pillar and we think the same.

I've run Sheiko programming and I just wasn't a fan. Linear progression is great for a couple months as a novice.

When I'm peaking I like to use 1rm % with the DUP. That's the only change I make. If I'm not feeling great on a training day, I want to try to battle through it during a peak.

ToolSteel · Dec 21, 2015

Dup and rir? And just when I thought I was getting the hang of some lingo...

bigben66 · Dec 21, 2015

I'm guessing you guys are predominantly powerlifters then?

DieYoungStrong · Dec 21, 2015

bigben66 said:
I'm guessing you guys are predominantly powerlifters then?

Yes. The board was supposed to be called ugpowerlifting.com

Seeker · Dec 21, 2015

bigben66 said:
I'm guessing you guys are predominantly powerlifters then?

Not predominantly. What's great about UG is we have lifters of all types. Except crossfitters...well maybe a closet crossfitter or two. You know who you are! Also remember that this thread is posted in the powerlifting section of the board.

Joliver · Dec 21, 2015

Is powerlifting like when the guys put the stones on the progressively higher platforms?

DieYoungStrong · Dec 21, 2015

Seeker said:
Not predominantly. What's great about UG is we have lifters of all types. Except crossfitters...well maybe a closet crossfitter or two. You know who you are! Also remember that this thread is posted in the powerlifting section of the board.

LIES!!!!!

Cornelius Bigsby Coanbread J. Oliver said:
Is powerlifting like when the guys put the stones on the progressively higher platforms?

No it's when weak guys put on funny suits that lift a bunch of weight for them while they eat ice cream and be fat

bigben66 · Dec 21, 2015

Seeker said:
Also remember that this thread is posted in the powerlifting section of the board.

Gotcha... still finding my way around...

MrRippedZilla · Dec 21, 2015

ToolSteel said:
Dup and rir? And just when I thought I was getting the hang of some lingo...

DUP = Daily undulating periodization
RIR = reps in reserve (another form of auto regulation where you save some reps, how many depends on a bunch of other things, in the tank to improve performance later on in a cycle)

A typical linear approach usually involves decreasing volume & increasing intensity from workout to workout, week to week, etc. This approach, as you may guess, isn't going to work for most people beyond the beginner stage because strength, or muscle, gains rarely come in a straight line like this and the sacrifice in volume for strength can limit hypertrophy.
Undulating periodization is one way to sidestep this issue.

Here is an example of both a linear & undulating approach for strength using a weekly programme (easier to demonstrate vs daily):

Linear -
4x10 @ 75%1RM for 4 weeks
3x8 @ 80%1RM for 4 weeks
3x5 @ 85%1RM for 4 weeks
3X3 @ 90%1RM for 4 weeks
As you can see, the intensity keeps going up while the volume drops.

Undulating:
3x12 @ 75%1RM for 2 weeks
5x5 @ 85%1RM for 2 weeks
4x8 @ 75%1RM for 2 weeks
5x5 @ 90%1RM for 2 weeks
4x5 @ 80%1RM for 2 weeks
6x3 @ 95%1RM for 2 weeks
Notice the more gradual changes in intensity/volume, the increase in variety, the wave like increases, etc - this is further emphasised with daily periodization using DUP. Its a much more realistic way of progressing in the gym for higher level lifters.

Hope that makes sense

DF · Dec 21, 2015

Seeker said:
Not predominantly. What's great about UG is we have lifters of all types. Except crossfitters...well maybe a closet crossfitter or two. You know who you are! Also remember that this thread is posted in the powerlifting section of the board.

It should really be named the Fat & Ugly forum.

ECKSRATED · Dec 21, 2015

I'm on that max out on bench every week program. Gainzzzzzzzz

PillarofBalance · Dec 22, 2015

MrRippedZilla said:
DUP = Daily undulating periodization
RIR = reps in reserve (another form of auto regulation where you save some reps, how many depends on a bunch of other things, in the tank to improve performance later on in a cycle)

A typical linear approach usually involves decreasing volume & increasing intensity from workout to workout, week to week, etc. This approach, as you may guess, isn't going to work for most people beyond the beginner stage because strength, or muscle, gains rarely come in a straight line like this and the sacrifice in volume for strength can limit hypertrophy.
Undulating periodization is one way to sidestep this issue.

Here is an example of both a linear & undulating approach for strength using a weekly programme (easier to demonstrate vs daily):

Linear -
4x10 @ 75%1RM for 4 weeks
3x8 @ 80%1RM for 4 weeks
3x5 @ 85%1RM for 4 weeks
3X3 @ 90%1RM for 4 weeks
As you can see, the intensity keeps going up while the volume drops.

Undulating:
3x12 @ 75%1RM for 2 weeks
5x5 @ 85%1RM for 2 weeks
4x8 @ 75%1RM for 2 weeks
5x5 @ 90%1RM for 2 weeks
4x5 @ 80%1RM for 2 weeks
6x3 @ 95%1RM for 2 weeks
Notice the more gradual changes in intensity/volume, the increase in variety, the wave like increases, etc - this is further emphasised with daily periodization using DUP. Its a much more realistic way of progressing in the gym for higher level lifters.

Hope that makes sense

You mention dup for higher level lifters. Have you ever used this for a novice? Once technique is sound (enough) I have had a lot of success running my newer guys and girls through this.

After 10 weeks or so they are taking old maxes for doubles or triples.

Milo · Dec 22, 2015

Shit is confusing. I just listen to POB.

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