Japan: doing it wrong

Jin

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https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...apan-testing-abe-shinzo-map-clusters-12552100

We have the highest elderly population in the world. Japanese always wait to be told what to do. So far that’s almost nothing. Schools cancelled. That’s it.

Streets packed. Stores packed. Remote work? Not in this culture.

Want to ge tested? Good luck convincing the government to approve your access.

This is sure to be the worst outcome for any developed nation.

Be glad the US government is only mildly incompetent compared to the Yahoos here.

Watch from afar as incompence leads to tragedy.
 

NbleSavage

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With so much global news on efforts to contain the spread, I'm surprised the Japanese people aren't adopting those precautions.

Is there still pressure on white collar workers to come into the office? Are Japanese citizens unaware of the guidance to avoid large groups and going out in public?
 

Jin

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With so much global news on efforts to contain the spread, I'm surprised the Japanese people aren't adopting those precautions.

Is there still pressure on white collar workers to come into the office? Are Japanese citizens unaware of the guidance to avoid large groups and going out in public?

A handful of very progressive companies have allowed work from home. 99% of the workforce continues.

Generally Japanese people care about japan. Not a lot of interest in international affairs. Myopic point of view.

Everyone is oblivious.

People think we’re crazy. Kids out of school but after school activities continue in full force. People don’t think here. They obey.

“No school” means you don’t go to school. That is all that’s been done or advised.

Un****ingbelievable.

if/when the PM asks for permission to invoke his new powers to keep people inside, a committee will have to be formed, consensus had and then it can be enacted.

Change is slow here.

As as soon as that committee is announced I’m off to CostCo. No panic buying ATM.

Japan is seriously, very ****ed.
 
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tinymk

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It is a different culture for sure. I treating but different. Hope to make it over there one day after all the smoke clears.
 
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CJ

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Do you think. The gov't just needs some of the old to die?

EVIL!!! :32 (6):

But I wonder that too. Not as a conspiracy theory, but almost like if it happens.....
 
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Blacktail

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I wish them well but not looking like that’s going to be the case.
 

Flyingdragon

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I always wondered where in Japan Mr. Miyagi learned how to catch a fly with a chopstick....
 

MrRippedZilla

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On the plus side, Japan will recover a lot quicker than most because it sounds like the Japanese PM, rightly, has decided that the human cost of the virus is nothing compared to the human cost of trashing our economy. He knows that, say, a 20% drop in GDP with a couple of months will bring a lot of nasty sides along with it.

Also, the Japanese are naturally cautious anyway (biggest cash hoarders in the world, stop spending anytime consumer taxes are increased, etc). That'll pay off handsomely in times like this, which is why you see the Yen rallying as a save haven currency.

Give it a few months before you decide that they are "doing it wrong". I suspect they're actually way ahead of the upcoming trend on this judging by the lack of Chinese appetite to resume shutdowns if this virus is still lurking around (which it will be).
 

Joliver

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https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...apan-testing-abe-shinzo-map-clusters-12552100

We have the highest elderly population in the world. Japanese always wait to be told what to do. So far that’s almost nothing. Schools cancelled. That’s it.

Streets packed. Stores packed. Remote work? Not in this culture.

Want to ge tested? Good luck convincing the government to approve your access.

This is sure to be the worst outcome for any developed nation.

Be glad the US government is only mildly incompetent compared to the Yahoos here.

Watch from afar as incompence leads to tragedy.

That moment you realize that the government realizes that it has a mirakuru on its hands that can flip the top-heavy ageing population pyramid back into it's favor with no immigration.

Perhaps I can interest you in something in my tinfoil line of apparel....
 
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Jin

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Give it a few months before you decide that they are "doing it wrong". I suspect they're actually way ahead of the upcoming trend on this judging by the lack of Chinese appetite to resume shutdowns if this virus is still lurking around (which it will be).

I absolutely see your point and if my values were your values then I’d be in agreement.

Bottom line is that if my family has a roof, food and access to healthcare: I don’t really care about money;)

certainly not saying that money is a bad thing or that my values are superior to yours. Just different.

I really enjoy getting your perspective on these issues.
 

MrRippedZilla

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I absolutely see your point and if my values were your values then I’d be in agreement.
Bottom line is that if my family has a roof, food and access to healthcare: I don’t really care about money;)
certainly not saying that money is a bad thing or that my values are superior to yours. Just different.
I really enjoy getting your perspective on these issues.
Dude, I think you'll find our values are more intertwined then you think.

It isn't a case of economy vs health or money vs health. These are pieces of the same pie. In fact, if you look at the data, the correlation between per-capita GDP and health (life expectancy) is close to perfect. That means one moves with the other. If our political response to this virus leads to a global economic collapse, then many more lives will be lost than this virus would ever have been able to claim. That is why I keep harping on about the human cost of our economic actions. Here is a paper that I recommend checking out to see why my concern is what it is: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0204940

I care for an 89 year old with dementia. My mother is in her 70s and father in his late 60s with a weakened immune system. I take the precautions (that you have done a good job informing the board of) necessary to make sure they're as protected as they can be. I do care. But that doesn't mean I can pretend that our actions, politically, are equal to the cause. I don't think they are. I fear that the many will pay a far greater price than was necessary in order to protect the few. I hope I'm wrong.
 
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Jin

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Dude, I think you'll find our values are more intertwined then you think.

It isn't a case of economy vs health or money vs health. These are pieces of the same pie. In fact, if you look at the data, the correlation between per-capita GDP and health (life expectancy) is close to perfect. That means one moves with the other. If our political response to this virus leads to a global economic collapse, then many more lives will be lost than this virus would ever have been able to claim. That is why I keep harping on about the human cost of our economic actions. Here is a paper that I recommend checking out to see why my concern is what it is: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0204940

I care for an 89 year old with dementia. My mother is in her 70s and father in his late 60s with a weakened immune system. I take the precautions (that you have done a good job informing the board of) necessary to make sure they're as protected as they can be. I do care. But that doesn't mean I can pretend that our actions, politically, are equal to the cause. I don't think they are. I fear that the many will pay a far greater price than was necessary in order to protect the few. I hope I'm wrong.

OK, I definitely was under an incorrect assumption. I get it now.

So, is your view that an acute time of illness, crisis and death, with a faster social/economic recovery is superior to a more mild, drawn out pandemic with an economic/social recovery taking many times as long?

in terms of overall human well being?

So, are we balancing long term wellness vs short term?

Long term having much to do
with the economy and affecting almost the entire population, whilst short term affecting far fewer but with immediate and visceral effects?

I take it you’d call the government’s priority to the immediate and visceral, short sighted?

Whats your view on how your country should
handle the situation?
 
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Sicwun88

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Nobody had to tell them what to do when they bombed Pearl harbor! I don't eat sushi,and if Donnie brasco isn't taking off his boots neither am I! Got enough to worry about in my own lil world!
 
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Jin

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https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/20/national/coronavirus-explosion-expected-japan/

Japan officials say they’re confident in their testing regimen. “We don’t see a need to use all of our testing capacity, just because we have it,” Health Ministry official Yasuyuki Sahara said at a briefing Tuesday. “Neither do we think it’s necessary to test people just because they’re worried.”


Historic levels of stupid.

Like, literally this stupidity will be documented in history books.

Planning on letting a virus burn through the population unhindered is one thing. Burying your head in the sand is quite another.
 

MrRippedZilla

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So, is your view that an acute time of illness, crisis and death, with a faster social/economic recovery is superior to a more mild, drawn out pandemic with an economic/social recovery taking many times as long?
in terms of overall human well being?
So, are we balancing long term wellness vs short term?
Long term having much to do with the economy and affecting almost the entire population, whilst short term affecting far fewer but with immediate and visceral effects?

I take it you’d call the government’s priority to the immediate and visceral, short sighted?

Whats your view on how your country should handle the situation?
I'd answer yes to your first 5 questions.

Politicians are always short sighted and always lie/hide the long term ramifications of their actions. Example: The Italian treasury claims it will only lose 3% of its GDP this year and that everything could return to normal in late April. Morgan Stanley says Italy will lose 33% of its GDP this year and nothing is returning to normal anytime soon. One of those two is flat out lying and I don't think it's MS.

The UK, my country, has been more honest about its approach than most. You won't hear any of that 2 week/1 month lockdown nonsense here. It's 12-16 weeks to see if we can get things under control but the measures in place are likely to last all year. The luxury of honesty from our politicians stems from the fact that our PM won a comfortable majority in the Dec election and is safe for 4 years. He can afford to be brutally honest - most politicians in most countries can't.

My main issue with our approach is that we're determined to pretend that the virus is an equal opportunity disease despite the fact that the data clearly shows that it's particularly deadly to the old & ill. We shouldn't all have to suffer the same economic consequences to combat it. Example: why ban public gatherings altogether vs isolating the old & ill only? Closing schools vs isolating the old & ill only. And on & on it goes. We, and most of the rest of the world, need to be more targeted in our measures to preserve ourselves over the long term. I suspect, and hope, we will be as the year progresses but we certainly aren't right now and hence....staring into the face of economic catastrophe.

By the way, I know isolating the elderly and ill comes with its own set of nasty side effects. But it's absolutely necessary if you want to fight this battle. It's a judgement call. By isolating the elderly from life, do we do more harm than good here? Tough question. I have no answer.
 
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