Confusion on preparing 2nd cycle. test p/anavar

mabdelrasoul · Jun 19, 2012

Get Some said:
It's very hard to run a proper cycle on a budget because the added FOOD expense should be way more than the added GEAR expense. When going for gains you should be eating so much that people will begin to worry about you. The cleaner you eat, the cleaner your gains will be. If you want to eat a lot but keep the fat down then do some AM fasted cardio..... BAM!

ya i def know what u mean about the "people will begin to worry about u". my mother keeps swearing im guna get sick from how much i eat lmao0. i just dont know how to explain to her that its called healthy eating. but sure will do that cardio in the a.m.

so hows this cycle look to u.

test p 1-12 175mg eod
anavar 1-4 50mg ed 8-12 50mg ed OR 1-8 50mg ed?
adex 1-16 .5mg e3d

nolva 12-16 40/40/20/20
clomid 12-16 50/50/50/25

Cobra Strike · Jun 20, 2012

Ok get some that was some decent info but way to much filler bro. You seem new to the boards because every post I've read of yours is a page long lol

I don't agree with your pct plan either or your Anavar lengths. it seems like your pretty much calling out Dr scallys protocol but you don't start using the hcg blast until your physiological test levels are below 200mg in the blood, which is based off half lifes. Also serms therapy doesn't start until your hcg blast is over. 4 weeks is ok for Anavar but its bot really gonna give the full effect. For this cycle I feel the last 8 weeks of var would be a much better use.

And let's not go and make npp out to be bad. You can get lean gains with any aas depending on your diet, true story!

As far ad diet goes its to generalized to tell a guy to eat do much people will worry...that'd not always the case and gives to much of a broad spectrum on what it actually means.

I know your doing your best to help bro and I'm not digging on you for that but make sure you read the thread before you answer any questions because you would have known he already has the gear and could have saved yourself half a page Haha

Now look what you made me do....I wrote a page too!

Keep up the solid posting though bro

Cobra Strike · Jun 20, 2012

Op.....yes stop the npp 2 weeks earlier then the test

mabdelrasoul · Jun 20, 2012

fuck you guys just confused the shit out of me lol.

Get Some · Jun 20, 2012

I get what you're saying bro, but the exact #1 BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH EVERY BOARD TODAY IS THAT PEOPLE DON'T READ ENOUGH! They want everything in concise form and just the facts. Well, sometimes just the facts doesn't make a whole lot of sense all alone. Sometimes you have to have explanation "filler." If everyone would read everything that I write I can guarantee they'd be a lot better off.

As for PCT/HCG... I agree with Scally on most points and him and I have had discussions on this subject back and forth through PM on a scientific level so I have a much better understanding of it than I originally did way back in the day. However, I use a modified version of his PCT that I feel works a little better for the general user. It's not something that I just dreamt up, it's based on results. The first thing I try to avoid is basing anything off of test levels. Yes, this is the best method to decide when to do anything, but the harsh reality is 95+% of people will never in their life get their levels tested even once! (Outside of HRT of course). So, I try to give people something they can use to succeed. There is no possible way I could have crammed the info into a single concise paragraph that the OP could understand. But here's a few short responses concerning other items:

ectomorph = eat til it hurts, that's a pretty good description if you want to gain

NPP = fabulous product, don't think it's the right choice for the OP yet

HCG = throughout cycle is best used "as needed" but I have to give a reference point like 500IU twice weekly for X weeks for people who have never used it before or else they will be lost

So much of this process becomes "feel" after the fist few cycles. I try to combine the best of what I know from science and real world experience to share with everyone. People who have known me for a long time and like reading my stuff usually know to read my posts cuz they are not BS

But that certainly doesn't mean everyone has to sit through them.

Cheers

Cobra Strike said:
Ok get some that was some decent info but way to much filler bro. You seem new to the boards because every post I've read of yours is a page long lol

I don't agree with your pct plan either or your Anavar lengths. it seems like your pretty much calling out Dr scallys protocol but you don't start using the hcg blast until your physiological test levels are below 200mg in the blood, which is based off half lifes. Also serms therapy doesn't start until your hcg blast is over. 4 weeks is ok for Anavar but its bot really gonna give the full effect. For this cycle I feel the last 8 weeks of var would be a much better use.

And let's not go and make npp out to be bad. You can get lean gains with any aas depending on your diet, true story!

As far ad diet goes its to generalized to tell a guy to eat do much people will worry...that'd not always the case and gives to much of a broad spectrum on what it actually means.

I know your doing your best to help bro and I'm not digging on you for that but make sure you read the thread before you answer any questions because you would have known he already has the gear and could have saved yourself half a page Haha

Now look what you made me do....I wrote a page too!

Keep up the solid posting though bro

Get Some · Jun 20, 2012

I would do it 3 weeks to be safe if he really is going to do it. 9 weeks of NPP injections that overflow into 11-12 weeks is plenty of time to grow on the stuff.

Also, Anavar is a complete waste of time if you have to run it for 8 weeks and IMO a complete waste of time in a bulking cycle. Winstrol has been proven to add more mass than anavar and is much less expensive.

For people new to running cycles, you ALWAYS want to start them off week 1 with an oral to keep them motivated. For you and me, your back end or mid plan may be more effective, but we've been through it before.

TO the OP: IMO, stick with the prop and var that you have and worry about adding NPP the next time around. A general pattern to follow if you are going to run cycles over the years is to keep using the same compounds for 2 cycles in a row and then on the 3rd one switch it up. For the 2nd cycle with the same compounds, just increase the doses to see how much additional benefit you will recieve versus the amount of side effects. You can mix orals in with any of these but I'm strictly speaking about injectables.

Cobra Strike said:
Op.....yes stop the npp 2 weeks earlier then the test

Cobra Strike · Jun 20, 2012

Ya I get everything your saying. What I'm saying is that your gonna get tired of spending your life explaining every detail of everything lol been there...

To the wrong person saying eat a shit ton with out giving an example can come across as them thinking chicken nuggets from mcyds is good. I've had people do that from me saying the same thing. I don't give advice based off of parroted info...everything I say is based off experiences and some scientific facts as there is not a lot of medical research to back a lot of this game up with.

Your hybrid pct is nice maybe for you but not for the lay person. The easiest thing in the world to do is figure out a half life...it does not take blood work to know your levels are low. Ofcourse you will never actually know what your exact levels are but you van make a pretty good estimation with math. Wether you have created a hybrid pct or not doesn't change the human physiological responses to steroids. If your testicles are not ready to accept the lh signal then they won't...its that simple so hitting them with hcg while they are still suppressed will do nothing but raise ITT. The most oppurtune time to hit the testicles with hcg is right before they are ready to start accepting them and that is when the bodies test levels are normophysiologic or lower.

I really like what you ate bringing to the table with your information...its good stuuf bro and I'm not disagreeing with it...I just have a different opinion then you. I'm not saying what your saying is wrong by no means invade your feeling like that...everyone here at SI appreciates everyone's help.

As far as npp goes....I feel that he is ready. He's ran test and var before and let's face it var has very minimal side effects if any. Npp isn't something yhat is gonna fuck you up. As long as you run your ai properly, listen to your body, and get atleast one set of bloods done mid cycle then you will be fine. You will never learn if you don't do.

Cobra Strike · Jun 20, 2012

Lol ok whatever bro...the op should just follow your advice because I'm done giving conflicting information....

You just advised winni over var and said var at 8 weeks is a waste....right...I completely disagree

What would be a waste of time is npp at 3 weeks...wtf

Take over bro....I will stay quite

Get Some · Jun 20, 2012

Ah fuck man, now I see what you are talking about! I was thinking the whole time that I was agreeing with your hcg blast and then I looked back at my post and realized the I wrote 21 days instead of 12! My "modified" version was basically just referring to the use of HCG while on cycle. That's rarely talked about with good info backing it so I just like to give people a reference point. I agree with you on the half lives but I still will say that MOST people who end up doing this won't even worry about that shit until something becomes a problem, lol. Half lives are not that hard to figure out... until you realize that a half life, active life, and falling levels can be affected by a number of factors that most people don't even think about like injection site, number of mLs per injection, additional solvents (EO, etc), and muscle fiber density. The latter is not a big deal because it's unavoidable and unchanging compound to compound. But, for the most part, I dont' trust people to do the right thing because they are inherently lazy, lol.

The main point is I agree with you on the supraphysiological levels being at the right spot. I've found that 12 days prior to PCT is almost perfect and I may have been a little confusing when I said it before. Good catch!

The only thing you ever worry about with NPP is the shutdown. It can shut you down super hard, so hard you may not even be expecting it. I think it requires more time off inbetween cycles unless you are a blast and cruiser. I just don't think it's necessary for this guy to add to his repertoire yet. Sounds like he is going to be doing 3.5 injections per week of almost 3ml per injection... I'm not sure he can handle that. And if you do EOD injections I would recommend at least 4 injection sites fo rotation, but preferably 6 to 8 to avoid scar tissue. When the needle world introduces you to your first scar tissue pin (where you stick it in one day and it feels like it hits a brick wall) then you will know what I mean! (talking to the op here, not you cobra)

Cobra Strike said:
Ya I get everything your saying. What I'm saying is that your gonna get tired of spending your life explaining every detail of everything lol been there...

To the wrong person saying eat a shit ton with out giving an example can come across as them thinking chicken nuggets from mcyds is good. I've had people do that from me saying the same thing. I don't give advice based off of parroted info...everything I say is based off experiences and some scientific facts as there is not a lot of medical research to back a lot of this game up with.

Your hybrid pct is nice maybe for you but not for the lay person. The easiest thing in the world to do is figure out a half life...it does not take blood work to know your levels are low. Ofcourse you will never actually know what your exact levels are but you van make a pretty good estimation with math. Wether you have created a hybrid pct or not doesn't change the human physiological responses to steroids. If your testicles are not ready to accept the lh signal then they won't...its that simple so hitting them with hcg while they are still suppressed will do nothing but raise ITT. The most oppurtune time to hit the testicles with hcg is right before they are ready to start accepting them and that is when the bodies test levels are normophysiologic or lower.

I really like what you ate bringing to the table with your information...its good stuuf bro and I'm not disagreeing with it...I just have a different opinion then you. I'm not saying what your saying is wrong by no means invade your feeling like that...everyone here at SI appreciates everyone's help.

As far as npp goes....I feel that he is ready. He's ran test and var before and let's face it var has very minimal side effects if any. Npp isn't something yhat is gonna fuck you up. As long as you run your ai properly, listen to your body, and get atleast one set of bloods done mid cycle then you will be fine. You will never learn if you don't do.

Get Some · Jun 20, 2012

FUCK! damn I suck at typing... after "3 weeks" should be the word "early".... 3 weeks of NPP is a colossal waste,lol agreed!

Hey, just a miscommunication man... stick around at the party

As you said, all opinions are appreciated

Cobra Strike said:
Lol ok whatever bro...the op should just follow your advice because I'm done giving conflicting information....

You just advised winni over var and said var at 8 weeks is a waste....right...I completely disagree

What would be a waste of time is npp at 3 weeks...wtf

Take over bro....I will stay quite

mabdelrasoul · Jun 20, 2012

Cobra Strike said:
Ya I get everything your saying. What I'm saying is that your gonna get tired of spending your life explaining every detail of everything lol been there...

To the wrong person saying eat a shit ton with out giving an example can come across as them thinking chicken nuggets from mcyds is good. I've had people do that from me saying the same thing. I don't give advice based off of parroted info...everything I say is based off experiences and some scientific facts as there is not a lot of medical research to back a lot of this game up with.

Your hybrid pct is nice maybe for you but not for the lay person. The easiest thing in the world to do is figure out a half life...it does not take blood work to know your levels are low. Ofcourse you will never actually know what your exact levels are but you van make a pretty good estimation with math. Wether you have created a hybrid pct or not doesn't change the human physiological responses to steroids. If your testicles are not ready to accept the lh signal then they won't...its that simple so hitting them with hcg while they are still suppressed will do nothing but raise ITT. The most oppurtune time to hit the testicles with hcg is right before they are ready to start accepting them and that is when the bodies test levels are normophysiologic or lower.

I really like what you ate bringing to the table with your information...its good stuuf bro and I'm not disagreeing with it...I just have a different opinion then you. I'm not saying what your saying is wrong by no means invade your feeling like that...everyone here at SI appreciates everyone's help.

As far as npp goes....I feel that he is ready. He's ran test and var before and let's face it var has very minimal side effects if any. Npp isn't something yhat is gonna fuck you up. As long as you run your ai properly, listen to your body, and get atleast one set of bloods done mid cycle then you will be fine. You will never learn if you don't do.

both opinions seem to make some sort of sense to me but more towards cobras side..whats up with 3 weeks of npp?lol and im no expert and may not be more knowledgeable than u in this game but out of all orals u advise winny? out of all orals (tbol,dbol)since were talking about a clean bulk cycle here. which is what im aiming for. also from what iv been researching winny seems to be harsher on sides then those mentioned.

Cobra id like to see more posts from u in the future.

Get Some · Jun 20, 2012

wow bro....just read it again man. I NEVER said to use NPP for 3 weeks. I said use it for 9 weeks and then finish 3 weeks before the test prop finishes.

Winny - on a purely "performance" basis (especially mg per mg) it kicks the shit out of anavar for muscle building. If you really want some muscle then go with dbol as I originally advised.

You guys just don't seem to get what's going on here and that's why these threads get so fucked up. I guess I'm just going to link to shit I've already written so I don't have to waste my breath again. I'm fine with Cobra and enjoyed conversing back and forth with him but the OP is clueless. It if for this exact reason I no longer frequent boards like Meso. I came here to impart some knowledge to the people. I have nothing to gain from this, but apparently people can't read or process information correctly.

So, from now on I'm just going to reply with concise advice.... for example I'll just give a cycle layout and you can ask questions later.

BTW OP... you can't say something like "out of all orals you advise winny?" if you've never tried it before, lol... nice try though

mabdelrasoul said:
both opinions seem to make some sort of sense to me but more towards cobras side..whats up with 3 weeks of npp?lol and im no expert and may not be more knowledgeable than u in this game but out of all orals u advise winny? out of all orals (tbol,dbol)since were talking about a clean bulk cycle here. which is what im aiming for. also from what iv been researching winny seems to be harsher on sides then those mentioned.

Cobra id like to see more posts from u in the future.

mabdelrasoul · Jun 20, 2012

Get Some said:
Ah fuck man, now I see what you are talking about! I was thinking the whole time that I was agreeing with your hcg blast and then I looked back at my post and realized the I wrote 21 days instead of 12! My "modified" version was basically just referring to the use of HCG while on cycle. That's rarely talked about with good info backing it so I just like to give people a reference point. I agree with you on the half lives but I still will say that MOST people who end up doing this won't even worry about that shit until something becomes a problem, lol. Half lives are not that hard to figure out... until you realize that a half life, active life, and falling levels can be affected by a number of factors that most people don't even think about like injection site, number of mLs per injection, additional solvents (EO, etc), and muscle fiber density. The latter is not a big deal because it's unavoidable and unchanging compound to compound. But, for the most part, I dont' trust people to do the right thing because they are inherently lazy, lol.

The main point is I agree with you on the supraphysiological levels being at the right spot. I've found that 12 days prior to PCT is almost perfect and I may have been a little confusing when I said it before. Good catch!

The only thing you ever worry about with NPP is the shutdown. It can shut you down super hard, so hard you may not even be expecting it. I think it requires more time off inbetween cycles unless you are a blast and cruiser. I just don't think it's necessary for this guy to add to his repertoire yet. Sounds like he is going to be doing 3.5 injections per week of almost 3ml per injection... I'm not sure he can handle that. And if you do EOD injections I would recommend at least 4 injection sites fo rotation, but preferably 6 to 8 to avoid scar tissue. When the needle world introduces you to your first scar tissue pin (where you stick it in one day and it feels like it hits a brick wall) then you will know what I mean! (talking to the op here, not you cobra)

get what u both are saying. guess ill sleep on this one for a few days. research a little more and come to a conclusion. but dam do you guys know your stuff lol. man i wish to know my shit like that one day.

mabdelrasoul · Jun 20, 2012

Get Some said:
wow bro....just read it again man. I NEVER said to use NPP for 3 weeks. I said use it for 9 weeks and then finish 3 weeks before the test prop finishes.

Winny - on a purely "performance" basis (especially mg per mg) it kicks the shit out of anavar for muscle building. If you really want some muscle then go with dbol as I originally advised.

You guys just don't seem to get what's going on here and that's why these threads get so fucked up. I guess I'm just going to link to shit I've already written so I don't have to waste my breath again. I'm fine with Cobra and enjoyed conversing back and forth with him but the OP is clueless. It if for this exact reason I no longer frequent boards like Meso. I came here to impart some knowledge to the people. I have nothing to gain from this, but apparently people can't read or process information correctly.

So, from now on I'm just going to reply with concise advice.... for example I'll just give a cycle layout and you can ask questions later.

BTW OP... you can't say something like "out of all orals you advise winny?" if you've never tried it before, lol... nice try though

my bad i wasnt trying to be a dick just from what i read off forums and stuff winnys side effects seem to be worse.

Get Some · Jun 20, 2012

BTW, Cobra and I are in agreement for the cycle and HCG and PCT, but not on the oral usage and NPP. It's not going to do you any harm to run the anavar for 8 weeks, just not my favorite choice. You can run NPP if you like, I just think you can get very similar results without it. I think you should save NPP/Deca for when you are ready for an all out bulking cycle.

As you get older you will realize a bunch of things are not as they seem and that you really only need 2 compounds in the long run.... test and tren. They do what everything else is capable of doing, just a little bit better! Save the tren for after you have done research on it and also are going to be doing a cutting cycle.

mabdelrasoul said:
get what u both are saying. guess ill sleep on this one for a few days. research a little more and come to a conclusion. but dam do you guys know your stuff lol. man i wish to know my shit like that one day.

Get Some · Jun 20, 2012

I wasn't speaking at all about side effects, but yes I would agree... joint pain can be undearable if you run it too high. But 50mg per day and you can get some incredible results. Anavar is quite mild on side effects, but also quite mild in gains.... so pick your poison.

mabdelrasoul said:
my bad i wasnt trying to be a dick just from what i read off forums and stuff winnys side effects seem to be worse.

Get Some · Jun 20, 2012

I wasn't speaking at all about side effects, but yes I would agree... joint pain can be undearable if you run it too high. But 50mg per day and you can get some incredible results. Anavar is quite mild on side effects, but also quite mild in gains.... so pick your poison.

mabdelrasoul said:
my bad i wasnt trying to be a dick just from what i read off forums and stuff winnys side effects seem to be worse.

mabdelrasoul · Jun 20, 2012

Get Some said:
BTW, Cobra and I are in agreement for the cycle and HCG and PCT, but not on the oral usage and NPP. It's not going to do you any harm to run the anavar for 8 weeks, just not my favorite choice. You can run NPP if you like, I just think you can get very similar results without it. I think you should save NPP/Deca for when you are ready for an all out bulking cycle.

As you get older you will realize a bunch of things are not as they seem and that you really only need 2 compounds in the long run.... test and tren. They do what everything else is capable of doing, just a little bit better! Save the tren for after you have done research on it and also are going to be doing a cutting cycle.

guess ill just leave it at that if u both agreed on it. ill just run the test n anavar. ill take it slow. diet is guna be on the money so hoping to reach my goal. thanks bros.

mabdelrasoul · Jun 20, 2012

Get Some said:
I wasn't speaking at all about side effects, but yes I would agree... joint pain can be undearable if you run it too high. But 50mg per day and you can get some incredible results. Anavar is quite mild on side effects, but also quite mild in gains.... so pick your poison.

thats also one of the main reasons i wanted to do that npp. joint pain!! i hurd npp reliefs joint pain and man can i use some support on my joint. and ill still go with anavar. dont think ill ever wana use winny honestly.

RowdyBrad · Jun 20, 2012

Some of this confusion was caused by a lack of research from OP. Make sure you know everything you can about what you are putting in your body before you plan or purchase your cycle. I am doing 50mg anavar a day for 8 weeks with my test and loving it. Great gains even though I am losing a bunch of fat. Space out your anavar 12 hours apart, 25mg 8 am and 25mg 8 pm etc.

No disrespect to OP, I want you to stay here and learn with all of us, but you did an oral only cycle and then made no real gaines off of your second cycle. Need to plan better and research more, then stick to it. Good luck.

Cobra and Get Some. Love reading both of your posts. Good knowledge, plus if everyone always agreed there would be no point of forums.

Confusion on preparing 2nd cycle. test p/anavar

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