HCG hmmmm

Bro Bundy

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mayb one day ill try it on cycle.I also dont see the point in using it while on..i understand it does more then keep the balls plump but i never get atrophy of the sack
 

therealkozmo

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In 100% agreement. There is no need for high dosages of HCG until ALL other avenues have been exhausted. To my knowledge it is only Dr. Scally who recommends high dosages of HCG in between a cycle and PCT and that's who you were referring to in your previous post. Llewellyn acknowledges his study but that study had a sample population of n=19 so while helpful it's not conclusive. Dr. Crisler, probably one of the most renowned TRT professionals worldwide, recommends more modest dosages be used.






I'm not exactly sure what you mean with the statement above^^^. Yes some people's testes are so far desensitized that nothing will work, this is ASIH (Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism). ASIH can be primary or secondary in nature but in the context you and I are talking about here it is primary hypogonadism (testicles are unable to produce testosterone even with a sufficient LH signal).

The following is the Dr. Crisler recommendations I recommend:



Here is information regarding the testes in the atrophied state not being responsive to LH:



This 'unresponsiveness' to LH after steroid cessation can be prevented in the first place by using HCG while on cycle from the beginning and maintain testicular size and function.



I prefer arimidex as an AI while on cycle alongside HCG administered at 250iu twice weekly. For PCT, a Nolva and clomid combo works exceptionally well, especially when testicular function is maintained through HCG use.



Testicular atrophy is more inline with suppression rather than elevated estradiol. When you introduce exogenous hormones into your body you suppress the HPTA at the hypothalamic level. The hypothalamus recognizes excess levels of hormones and ramps down production of GNrH. Lack of GNrH will tell the pituitary to stop secreting leutinizing hormone. Lack of leutinizing hormone means the Ledyig cells in the testicles have no stimulation to produce testosterone. No endogenous testosterone production means no testicular activity towards producing testosterone and thus the testicles shrink/atrophy...bc of the lack of stimulation.




If testicular atrophy was solely due to elevated estradiol why would atrophy occur in the first place if we maintained proper AI usage throughout the cycle? By 'proper' AI usage I'm referring to keeping estradiol within normal physiological levels using AIs and monitoring blood work. Or why would suppression occur if we only introduced non-aromatizable compounds? We know that even with AI use on cycle we are still suppressed and even non-aromatizing compounds can cause suppression. I believe though that you are correct though in that elevated estrogenic or progestagenic activity will cause increased/harsher suppression via the negative feedback loop and agree furthermore that maintaining physiological levels of estradiol, progesterone, and prolactin can help in an easier recovery. This is why some compounds are more suppressive than others.




IMO, the aggressiveness of the PCT someone would need would be due to the level of suppression and length of time being suppressed. A compound such as Anavar is mildly suppressive hence a standard PCT is usually sufficient. Mildly suppressive doesn't mean it won't suppress as it most certainly would induce suppression, but it would take much higher dosages and longer duration to have the same level of suppression when compared to something such as nandrolone which is extremely suppressive (1 injection of nandrolone can completely shutdown the HPTA).



I 100% agree with you that PCT needs more research unfortunately it can only be case studies performed after the fact since it is a moral dilemma for the medical community ie they can't legally put someone through a "cycle" to test their theories on PCT. We have to do the best that we can interpreting the information that is available in the medical literature as well as taking into account anecdotal experiences. I know that there are studies being performed on HMG currently which may be of immense value to us as it is an LH analog (like HCG but more potent) as well as a FSH analog (which would aid in the impotency you bring up). I'm all for bringing awareness and 'safer' cycling recommendations and I applaud you for feeling the same way.

Thank you for engaging me in a constructive exchange :)


Sorry for the epic novel I wrote but I wanted to explain my position and I think we both are in agreement on the big picture and disagree on the smaller details.
they can legally give people cycles for experiments. Currently it is frowned upon and doctors risk losing their liscense because it is now a controlled substance if it is viewed by regulatory bodies that the prescribing physician is "recklessly" prescribing a narcotic. That's different then being able to study the effect of testosterone or pct
here are some studies for example

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17530941
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3205888/
 
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Bro Bundy

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I still recover well with a hcg blast followed by pct..Its all about having human grade shit
 

therealkozmo

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mayb one day ill try it on cycle.I also dont see the point in using it while on..i understand it does more then keep the balls plump but i never get atrophy of the sack
Lucky bastard. LH effects many pathways and enzymes so for us non mutants HCG can help keep us functioning at our best
 

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