Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Undergroundsupplements Newsletter Issue #10

    Vae Victus
    Issue #10

    A letter from the Tazmanian Devil

    Hello all once again. First off, I have to apologize to you all for the long wait for this newsletter. I have been really busy with the personal life and hopefully that everything is getting under control. As some of you may know, I have retired from my position of being a source monitor. I have left that job to some very capable people. So you can still contact them, prove to be on the up-and-up, and they may help you in finding a source for all your needs.

    Well I went to the Arnold Classic. I went with a couple of buddies that do frequent the board. One of them is a monitor. We had the priviledge to meet another monitor. It was good to be able to put a face with a name. As I was wandering around the Arnold Expos, I couldn’t help but wonder if I was bumping into fellow board members. I do recommend that you take this trip just once in your life. These people are usually quite friendly and try to please their fans. This is my 4th trip and I intended on trying to meet some of the people that I havent been able to meet before. I did pretty good. Now I do like female bodybuilders but today, they are just too big. Except one. Jitka Haraminizov. To me, she is very pretty and has very pleasing curves and lines. She is very sweet, and her English is very good. I got to shake her hand and she signed a pic for me. I was very happy. Met Kiana from Flex Appeal! She is absolutely beautiful. Very nice too. If any of you can go to the next one, it would be well worth your while. However, on a bad note, I have to feel that the wrong man won the Mens Bodybuilding contest.

    On the next newsletter, I plan on making a "Stacking Guide" It will be for anyone who has question on what AS work well together for cutting and bulking. I will also define the different types of cycling. Hopefully this will answer a lot of peoples questions and will help keep the board from being too congested with stacking questions.

    I hope most of you who plan to cycle this time will be thinking of your cutting cycle, for summer is coming (THANK GOD!!!!)


    NOTICE: No liability is assumed by Underground Supplements or the authors for any information contained herein. This text does not contain medical advise. Specific medical advise shoud be obtained from a licensed health practitioner. Neither Underground Supplements nor the authors advocate, promote or encourage the use of anabolic steroids or other illegal drugs. The information contained in this publication is not intended to induce or persuade anyone to use or possess anabolic steroids or any other illegal drugs Any references made directly about the effects of anabolic steroids, about obtaining anabolic steroids are for information purposes only and are expressions of the authors opinions. This publication is an attempt for a practical source of information, rather than scientific.

  2. #2
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Section I --Tricks, Tips for getting the "gear"

    Part 1

    Advice with Dealing with the Foreign source

    I get a lot of emails asking if Joe the Man from Pakistan is OK to deal with. The question they all want to know is; "Will I get my stuff?" This is more for the newbie. Most of you that have been playing this game know a few domestic sources and are willing to keep your business with them. But for the newbie, they come in on the net and a lot of International sources have web sites set up. They ask, " how can they just blatantly do this type of advertising?" Well the answer is that they are residents of countries that do not have laws against anabolic steroids. So what laws are they breaking? The Internet is worldwide, and there are laws saying what you can put on a web site and what you cannot put on a web site. Just because something is against the law in the U.S. doesn’t mean that it is against the law in their country. The pharmacies that advertise AS are making their web sites in the English language because they know that most of their income will come from buyers in the U.S. So they cater to them. They also know that AS are against the law here in the states so these companies that sell pharmaceuticals will ship to the U.S. in packages that stand a good chance of making it through the U.S. Customs. Now if they do put their return addy on the packages addressed to residents in the U.S. The customs will just flag their company and any packages coming in from that company or address will just be detained and sent back. So, what happens to the addressee? Well a number of things. The usual practice is to send a letter to the addressee that states that U.S. Customs or the F.D.A detained a package because it contained illegal drugs. The letter will ask that you produce a valid prescription and if you do, they will release the package to you. Well it may be a lucky guess, but most of you will not have a valid prescription. So if they do not hear from you within a certain amount of time, then the contents will be sent to the sender if a valid return address is found, if not, then they are destroyed. (Or used for their own personal stash) Now it is important that when you are dealing with a foreign source to stay within the "Personal Use" guidelines. If you do, then most of you will experience the scenario I have just mentioned. But if you decide to place an order but also help out a couple of friends, you could exceed the Personal Use limit and you could be visited by the feds, your local detectives. Or they could let the package through and wait for you to take possession of the package by signing for it and then try to bust you. This is where you have to read Part 2 on steps to protect you. So a good piece of advice, do not order for friends—ever! If they want the stuff, let them take care of themselves.

    Now choosing a foreign source is tricky. There are scammers and if you get scammed by a foreign source, then kiss your money goodbye there is little you can do about it, besides catching a flight to their country and trying to find them. If you do—good luck. But there are more honest sources than scammers. You have to ask around, follow the boards and keep your eyes open. Now that you have found an honest source, you have to look at what country they are in. There are sources in Europe, Asia, etc. Now the U.S. Customs has what they call an E.C.C. list. If a country is on this list, then any package arriving to the U.S. from these countries will be scrutinized. These countries include any type of country that may have Communistic governments. (I.e. Cuba, China, Russia, N. Korea, etc) Then there are countries that produce drugs like Opium, Cocaine, Heroin, Hashish, etc. (I.e. Thailand, Turkey) Then there are countries that have very loose drug laws. (I.e. Spain, Portugal, France) Now it doesn’t leave many. There are a lot of AS sources from Spain. But also there are scammers from Spain. You have to pick one that will go out of their way to help disguise the packages. Some don’t, but some do. There is a source that sends out tablets in regular envelopes, which is a great disguise. There is a source that sends tabs and amps in Perfume boxes. There are sources that do a great job of sending a package that no one would expect contained anything illegal. (This source has NEVER had a seizure or lost mail) Like I said, look around and you will find them. But keep in mind, if one of these packages ever got seized, it will look like a disguise and your chances of getting that unwanted knock at the door goes up. You have to use your head and weigh your chances. Using a foreign source is NEVER fool proof. Don’t ever kid yourself into thinking it is. But I have seen many newbies find these sources and send huge amounts of money only to get scammed or their packages hung up in customs. That is the biggest problem: Losing your money. So here is my advice:


    I give this advice out a lot and I think it is good sound advice. Remember that dealing with sources over the net is risky and the thing that takes the highest risk is your money! Getting ripped off, or getting ripped off by the Customs is a shitty feeling. Ask a lot of questions, ask the gurus, and gain knowledge before you place your order. Don’t let your "wants" overtake your rational thinking.

    Part 2

    Hints for Receiving the Package

    I put this section back in this issue, due to the fact that we have a lot more members who are new to the game of "mail order gear" on the Underground. This may be redundant to most of you, but this is for the newest members that need to have this knowledge.

    If you are new to the game of obtaining gear through the mail, please pay very close attention to this section. This knowledge will keep you from getting in unneeded trouble. If you ever have any questions, remember that the dumbest questions pertaining to this subject are the UNASKED ones!

    NEVER sign for or acknowledge ordering a package. (Example), If a postman will not deliver without a receiving signature, write it off as a loss and change your source. This is the most important rule! If the "postman" tries to give you a package and have you sign for it, tell him/her that you weren’t expecting anything from (wherever/whomever) and the name on the package doesn't even live here. If they persist, you can bet your ass something is up! Tell them to go away and close the door on them. Do not buy into any story that they serve you. Even if your Postman is familiar, do not trust them.

    This should go without stating, if you are being followed to your P.O Box (by someone you suspect as law enforcement) abort the pickup. If you've picked up the package already and notice that you are being tailed, go to the nearest mailbox and dump the package. When picking up the package, keep an eye out. Don't be too paranoid. But, if something doesn’t seem right to you, don’t pick up the package.

    When you know that the package has been delivered to your mailbox of your home, take it inside, and have a magic marker handy. As soon as the package is in your home, IMMEDIATELY write across the face of the package in clear legible script:

    RETURN - NOT AT THIS ADDRESS or RETURN TO SENDER. Leave it in an area that is close to the front door to make it look like you were going to drop it back in the mailbox as a rejected item on your very next trip outside. If you are being watched, and they approach you, they have nothing on you, as you were just about to toss it back in the mailbox as a rejected item. If no one approaches you, you should be O.K. But, just to make sure, don't open the package for a day or two, if the law is staking you out, they will make their move within 24 hours. You can be sure that they won't wait more than a few days after you receive the package to try and bust you. After a two to three days, you should be cool.

    Author's note: The above hint is based on the EliteFitness "Secrets of Mail Order steroid Success". I want to make sure I give credit where credit is due. The above is free advise. You don't have to listen to it. You may not agree with it. But the ideas and thoughts come from customers that have been using these methods without failure for years.

  3. #3
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Section II -- "JUICE NEWS"

    Part 1

    Prostaglandin – PGF2 – Lutalyse

    REPORTS 1 + 2

    There is quite a bit of interest in PGF2 right nowise I will clear a few things up first. I get my Lutalyse from a friend who is vet, I can only get personal use for the moment but will look into things further if there is a demand, this is a big if? I don’t even know if it’s on any banned lists in

    My own country let alone the U.S.A. My stats are as follows on the 13/01/99: weight: 221 pounds fat: round about 10/11% height: 6ft 2in I will start of with 2mg a day and build up too 8mg.

    As a few of you have shown interest in my real life trials with PGF2, I will report every week and tell you how I’m getting on. This report is fairly long but I hope it helps others who might be thinking of using PGF2. These are my results so take them for what they are. I started on the 13/01/99 with my first injection of 1/2 a mg of diniprost (pgf2); each 1-ml of Lutalyse contains 5mg of diniprost (pgf2). I used a 22Ga*3/4 needle, you should use insulin pins, which I will use when I get some. As with any new drug that you inject, I was careful not to use too much just in case I had a bad reaction to it, also I was shitting myself just like the first time with DNP! I injected into the bicep so I would know how painful this stuff really is. As soon as I started to inject, the pain started. If you could imagine your most painful injection, this is what it’s like every time you use it. I had no bad reactions or the side effects, so I thought "that what does not kill you makes you stronger". The next day I intended to use 8mg,so I started with 2mg in each leg, 10 minutes after injection I started to feel my chest and throat tighten so I used my Ventilin inhaler and this really did help. It still was not a pleasant feeling but I had it under control. A few moments later, the

    muscle spasms started in my intestines and bowels. The pain was not too bad, but I didn’t like the short stabs of pain my abdominal area was giving me so I quickly took one of my anti-spasmodic diarrhea tablets. These started to kick in 10 minutes later and all you get is a dull sensation of the

    pain. I have used it for 4 days now and I have not had the shits once. All you get is a little bit more wind. If your going to use pgf2, I would recommend using the drugs I have stated. They really worked wonders for me! As for training I didn’t feel it effected me at all apart from the ****ing great pumps it gives you. Your muscles feel nice and hard all day even when you wake up, just like a good cycle of steroids would give you. I have been on for 4 days now, so I’ll give you my opinion; both-- good and bad.

    The bad side is the side effects, which I dealt with pretty well; the worst problem is the amount of injection you have to do in a day. I solved this by injecting 2 or 3ml at a time in each muscle, say for example you injected in your legs. Do 2 or 3ml in each leg. This saves time and pain, because I don’t want to be a slave to the needle. I found its best to inject first thing in the morning and last thing at night when you have not got much food in your digestive system. Any injections in the day are a bonus, you have to be practical about this because most of us have to go work in the day and it’s hard to find time to inject. Some might say you are not going to get the best out of pgf2 doing it this way but this is the practical way. If you can stand injecting 7 or 8 times a day fine, but you must like the ****ing pain, because this stuff makes your muscle throb with pain for about an hour, and then it goes away after a day. I felt the rise in my body temperature and it did feel like I was on DNP. But this only lasted for about an hour. Maybe my temperature was still

    elevated for a few hours more but this was no problem. PGF2 has got to go along way to beat DNP in the race for the nastiest drug of all time, but its close. The reason I could inject so much into my system at once was because I was using my drug stack to help negate the side effects. The good side has yet to be seen but I am very confident this stuff will work. Remember I’m still learning every day!


    The experiment I’m doing now is to use PGF2 transdermally. The insert to Lutalyse (pgf2) states that you should take extreme caution when handling Lutalyse as it can easily be absorbed through the skin. So I thought that maybe it could be applied to the skin without injecting. But as PGF2 has a half-life of around 10 minutes, it might not reach your muscles in time to do its work. But maybe it would be a better fat burner when applied transdermally, as PGF2 is supposed to kill fat cells when it comes in contact with them. I’m applying 2mg of PGF2 with Duchaines "Yo-Be-Lean"; I’ve been rubbing this mixture into my abdominal area until it all disperses. When I apply the mixture the area becomes very hot for 10 to 20 minutes, yohimbe and PGF2 seems like its working and the theory sounds pretty good but I will tell you if its worked after I have given it about a month. If anyone has any better ways to improve this mixture in any way please post here and

    tell me what you think. Maybe it will turn out to be a load of bull but who knows?

    REPORT 3

    After nearly two weeks on, I’m very, very pleased with the results. I’m not taking any steroids or

    creatine, and I have not changed my diet in any way. My actual body weight gain has been nearly 5 pounds of muscle as far as I can tell. What with the constant pump I get, my overall appearance has improved greatly. I am using up to 2mg in each body part at a time for a total of 8mg a day. I have tried going higher but 2mg at a time are my limit in any one sight of injection. The body parts that have been hit the most have improved to no end. The improvement is ver visible. This stuff does not take weeks or months to work, it starts right away, and if you can live with the side effects this is worth trying. On the subject of transdermal PGF2a, I am still not sure the PGF2a gets to the muscle before it’s out of the body. This is why I sent e-mail to Dharkham asking this same question. I’m still waiting for a reply. If anyone wants any info on how to use or obtain PGF2a, e-mail me and I will try to answer you.

    REPORT 4

    To recap things; on the 13/01/99 I started using PGF2a, my starting body weight was 221 pounds. After nearly 2 weeks of use, I was up 5 pounds. My report follows from here. As of 31/01/99 my body weight is 238 pounds, that’s 17 pounds of body weight gain in 17 days! As ****ing amazing as it sounds, I began to notice all of this weight was not muscle, but a slight retention of water under the skin. I still got those great pumps you get from using pgf2a, maybe this is why? For the last two weeks, I had been using 10mg of pgf2a a day. The side effects seem to becoming less and less every time I use it. Or maybe I do not notice it so much? I experimented with a few

    things as well, such as injecting a body part in the morning and training it that same night. I had no problems with this at all, if anything, I got a better work out because I could feel the muscle better. I’m not saying it does not hurt but it’s a pain I can live with and if you cannot stand a bit of pain in your workouts, then don’t use pgf2a, simple. I also injected straight after training and

    still had no problems with the pain, these sensations only last about an hour anyway. I feel this is the best way to take pgf2a as your getting this growth promoter in the place where it’s needed the most, in the trained muscle. This is what I found and the next man might have different results but I found it OK. Other observations that I noticed apart from the slight water retention (maybe this is a one off and will not happen to you) was that it gave me amazingly hard erections, not a bad side effect if you ask me! I know Dharkham states in his article that people using steroids and pgf2a have to cut back on their poundage but, because I have been off for quite awhile now, my strength gains seemed to increase with pgf2a use.

    All right, this is where the fun begins. On the 31/01/99 I decided to go on a weeks diet to see what actual muscle gains I had made. I went on the loose theory that if all the weight I had gained was mostly water; I would have a body weight under that than which I had started on 13/01/99. When I diet, I go for it 100%. I use everything in my power to lose those pounds of fat. Here is the list of supplements that I used:





    THE PGF2A).



    If you want more info on this ****ing brilliant way to diet look on the "underground library message board", it’s well worth the read. And I cannot possibly do justice to it in a few lines of words. All right let’s get back to the diet. I weighed myself this morning and had a very pleasant surprise. I scaled in at 228 pounds of lean body weight. As I had hardly any carbs in my system or the water weight, which comes with carb stores, I had gained 7 pounds of lean body mass since my pgf2a experiment. So when I ingest carbs again and rehydrate my muscles, this figure will go

    up. I am very, very pleased with the look that pgf2a has given me. I will continue to use pgf2a to gain muscle and hardness. I cannot wait to try a mild cycle with this stuff; God knows how much muscle you can gain? I will report back next issue, as I do not know if I will do another weeks diet

    or not. I only intended to do one week but the ease of animals diet has made me want more. It’s the best diet I have been on ever! I’m still working on a new supplement to take with your pgf2a which stops calcium leaks in your muscles which should equate to less muscle being broken down when you train. See ya

  4. #4
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Part 2


    My personal experience with a DNP cycle


    Hi there everyone. How y’all? Hope everybody’s as fine as can be. C’mon rise and shine. Don’t despair if something’s wrong in your life. Just do your best to make things better and you’ll see that the sun will come out shining again! (Doesn’t that sound like a dorky introduction? Well, I really meant it anyway.)

    So, what this article is really all about is that I wanted to share my DNP experiences with anybody who bothered to read. I know there are a lot of questions going around about this chemical right now and I think it’s only fair that now that I have gone through a cycle, I share my "knowledge" with you guys out there because much of your questions and trepidation are the same as what I had and went through when I was deciding whether to take the dreaded DNP or not. I hope that at least someone out their finds this article as useful as I intended it to be. If you have any queries, disagreements and information about this or any other bodybuilding subject of interest please feel free to email me at my addy, which I stuck to the end of this article. I will try to help out any way I can.


    The Chemical Part of It and the Health Hazards Involved

    If there is anybody of you out there that thinks this section sucks please feel free to go on to the next section which contains the real world info about DNP. I just included this section for the more scientifically-minded and conscientious guys who want to know all they can about the stuff that’s gonna go in their gut or in their butts. It contains info about DNP and the officially cited hazards that can result from exposure to it in industrial places (which is were all the DNP is supposed to be anyway - what the hell is it doing in your kitchen?) So here we go.


    2,4-Dinitrophenol can effect you when breathed in and by passing through your skin.
    2,4-Dinitrophenol can cause reproductive damage. Handle with extreme caution.
    2,4-Dinitrophenol is a FLAMMABLE LIQUID and a FIRE HAZARD.
    Contact can irritate the skin. Long term exposure may cause dermatitis.
    2,4-Dinitrophenol can irritate the eyes, and may cause clouding of the eye lenses (cataracts).
    Breathing 2,4-Dinitrophenol can irritate the nose and throat.
    High or repeated exposure can affect the nervous system causing nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, convulsions and even death.
    2,4-Dinitrophenol may damage the liver and kidneys.


    2,4-Dinitrophenol is a yellow crystalline (sand-like) solid but is often found in a solution. It is used in dyes, photo developers, explosives, and as a preservative of lumber.


    2,4-Dinitrophenol is on the Hazardous Substance List because it is cited by EPA and DOT.


    Exposure to hazardous substances should be routinely evaluated. This may include collecting personal and area air samples. You can obtain copies of sampling results from your employer. You have a legal right to this information under OSHA 1910.20. If you think you are experiencing any work-related health problems, see a doctor trained to recognize occupational diseases. Take this Fact Sheet with you.


    No occupational exposure limits have been established for 2,4- Dinitrophenol. This does not mean that this substance is not harmful. Safe work practices should always be followed.

    It should be recognized that 2,4-Dinitrophenol can be absorbed through your skin, thereby increasing your exposure.

    2,4-Dinitrophenol may be a teratogen in humans. All contact with this chemical should be reduced to the lowest possible level.


    Where possible, enclose operations and use local exhaust ventilation at the site of chemical release. If local exhaust ventilation or enclosure is not used, respirators should be worn.
    Post hazard and warning information in the work area. In addition, as part of an ongoing education and training effort, communicate all information on the health and safety hazards of 2,4-Dinitrophenol to potentially exposed workers.
    Wear protective work clothing.
    Wash thoroughly immediately after exposure to 2,4- Dinitrophenol and at the end of the workshift.

    This Fact Sheet is a summary source of information of all potential and most severe health hazards that may result from exposure. Duration of exposure, concentration of the substance and other factors will affect your susceptibility to any of the potential effects described below.


    Acute Health Effects

    The following acute (short-term) health effects may occur immediately or shortly after exposure to 2,4-Dinitrophenol:

    2,4-Dinitrophenol can irritate the skin and eyes.
    Breathing 2,4-Dinitrophenol can irritate the nose and throat.
    Exposure to 2,4-Dinitrophenol cause fatigue, thirst, sweating, headache and weakness. It may also cause anxiety and excitement.

    Chronic Health Effects

    The following chronic (long-term) health effects can occur at some time after exposure to 2,4-Dinitrophenol and can last for months or years:

    Cancer Hazard

    2,4-Dinitrophenol may cause mutations (genetic changes) in living cells. Whether or not it poses a cancer or reproductive hazard needs further study.
    2,4-Dinitrophenol has not been tested for its ability to cause cancer in animals.

    Reproductive Hazard

    2,4-Dinitrophenol may damage the developing fetus.
    2,4-Dinitrophenol has not been tested for its ability to adversely affect reproduction.

    Other Long-Term Effects

    Exposure to 2,4-Dinitrophenol can cause dermatitis. Clouding of the eye lenses (cataracts) may occur after a long exposure.
    High or repeated exposure can effect the nervous system causing nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, headache, anxiety, weakness, convulsions and even death.
    2,4-Dinitrophenol may damage the liver and kidneys.


    Medical Testing

    If symptoms develop or overexposure is suspected, the following may be useful:

    Liver and kidney function tests.
    Exam of the eyes.
    Evaluation by a qualified allergist, including careful exposure history and special testing, may help diagnose skin allergy.

    Any evaluation should include a careful history of past and present symptoms with an exam. Medical tests that look for damage already done are not a substitute for controlling exposure.

    Request copies of your medical testing. You have a legal right to this information under OSHA 1910.20.


    Unless a less toxic chemical can be substituted for a hazardous substance, ENGINEERING CONTROLS are the most effective way of reducing exposure. The best protection is to enclose operations and/or provide local exhaust ventilation at the site of chemical release. Isolating operations can also reduce exposure. Using respirators or protective equipment is less effective than the controls mentioned above, but is sometimes necessary.

    In evaluating the controls present in your workplace, consider:

    how hazardous the substance is,
    how much of the substance is released into the workplace and
    whether harmful skin or eye contact could occur. Special controls should be in place for highly toxic chemicals or when significant skin, eye, or breathing exposures is possible.

    In addition, the following control are recommended:

    Where possible, automatically transfer 2,4-Dinitrophenol from drums or other storage containers to process containers.

    Before entering a confined space where 2,4-Dinitrophenol may be present, check to make sure that an explosive concentration does not exist.

    Good WORK PRACTICES can help to reduce hazardous exposures. The following work practices are recommended:

    Workers whose clothing has been contaminated by 2,4- Dinitrophenol should change into clean clothing promptly.

    Individuals who have been informed of the hazards of exposure to 2,4- Dinitrophenol should launder contaminated work clothes.

    Eye wash fountains should be provided in the immediate work area for emergency use.

    If there is the possibility of skin exposure, emergency shower facilities should be provided.

    On skin contact with 2,4-Dinitrophenol, immediately wash or shower to remove the chemical. At the end of the workshift, wash any areas of the body that may have contacted 2,4- Dinitrophenol, whether or not known skin contact has occurred.

    Do not eat, smoke, or drink where 2,4-Dinitrophenol is handled, processed, or stored, since the chemical can be swallowed. Wash hands carefully before eating or smoking.

    For dust powder use a vacuum or a wet method to reduce dust during clean up. DO NOT DRY SWEEP.



    However, for some jobs (such as outside work, confined space entry, jobs done only once in a while, or jobs done while workplace controls are being installed), personal protective equipment may be appropriate.

    The following recommendations are only guidelines and may not apply to every situation.


    Avoid skin contact with 2,4-Dinitrophenol. Wear protective gloves and clothing. Safety equipment suppliers/manufacturers can provide recommendations on the most protective glove/clothing material for your operation.
    All protective clothing (suites, gloves, footwear, and headgear) should be clean, available each day, and put on before work.

    Eye Protection

    Wear splash-proof chemical goggles and face shield when working with liquid, unless full facepiece respiratory protection is worn.
    Wear dust-proof goggles and face shield when working with powders or dust, unless full facepiece respiratory protection is worn.

    Respiratory Protection


    Such equipment should only be used if the employer has a written program that takes into account workplace conditions; requirements for worker training, respirator fit testing and medical exams, as described in OSHA 1910.134.

    Engineering controls must be effective to ensure that exposure to 2,4-Dinitrophenol does not occur.

    Where the potential exists for exposure to 2,4-Dinitrophenol, use a MSHA/NIOSH approved supplied-air respirator with a full facepiece operated in the positive pressure mode or with a full facepiece, hood, or helmet in the continuous flow mode, or use a MSHA/NIOSH approved self-contained breathing apparatus with a full facepiece operated in pressure-demand or other positive pressure mode.

    Common Name: 2,4-Dinitrophenol

    DOT Number: UN 1599 (Dinitrophenol solution); UN 0076 (Dry or wetted with less than 15% water); UN 1320 (Dinitrophenol, wet with at least 15% water) DOT Emergency Guide codes: 57,36,46

    CAS Number: 51-28-5

    Hazard rating NJDOH NFPA

    Flammability 3 Not Rated

    Reactivity 0 Not Rated




  5. #5
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts
    Hazard Rating Key: 0=minimal; 1=slight; 2=moderate; 3=serious;



    Dried out material may explode.
    Vapor explosion hazard indoors, outdoors and in sewers.
    2,4-Dinitrophenol is a FLAMMABLE LIQUID (depending upon carrier solvent) or an explosive solid.
    Flood with water, if water is not available, use dry chemical or dirt.
    POISONOUS GASES ARE PRODUCED IN FIRE, including Nitrogen Oxides.
    Use water spray to keep fire-exposed containers cool.
    If employees are expected to fight fires, they must be trained and equipped as stated in OSHA 1910.156.


    If 2,4-Dinitrophenol is spilled or leaked, take the following steps:

    Restrict persons not wearing protective equipment from area of spill or leak until clean up is complete.
    Remove all ignition sources.
    Ventilate area after clean up is complete.
    Collect powdered material in the most convenient and safe manner and deposit in sealed containers.
    Keep 2,4-Dinitrophenol out of a confined space, such as a sewer, because of the possibility of an explosion, unless the sewer is designed to prevent the build-up of explosive concentrations.
    It may be necessary to contain and dispose of 2,4- Dinitrophenol as a HAZARDOUS WASTE.
    Contact your Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) or your regional office of the federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for specific recommendations.


    FOR LARGE SPILLS AND FIRES call your fire department immediately.



    Prior to working with 2,4-Dinitrophenol you should be trained on its proper handling and storage.
    Keep 2,4-Dinitrophenol wet or treat it as an explosive. Dried out material may explode if exposed to heat, flame or shock.
    Store in tightly closed containers in a cool, well-ventilated area away from LIGHT.


    Eye Contact

    Immediately flush with large amounts of water for at least 15 minutes, occasionally lifting upper and lower lids. Seek medical attention (immediately).

    Skin Contact

    Quickly remove contaminated clothing. Immediately wash contaminated skin with large amounts of (soap and) water.


    Remove the person from exposure.
    Begin rescue breathing if breathing has stopped and CPR if heart action has stopped.
    Transfer promptly to a medical facility.


    Flash Point: Not Found

    Water Solubility: Slightly soluble


    Chemical Name: 1-Hydroxy-2,4-Dinitrobenzene

    Other Names and Formulations:

    Alpha Dinitrophenol; Aldifen; Fenoxyl Carbon N.

    Not intended to be copied and sold for commercial purposes.


    Right to Know Program

    CN 368, Trenton, NJ 08625-0368



    2,4-Dinitrophenol is a yellowish crystalline solid and is the most important of the six possible dinitrophenol forms. It is used mostly as an intermediate to make dyes, photochemicals, pest control agents, wood preservatives, and explosives. It may enter the environment from industrial discharges, spills, or possibly as a breakdown product of certain pesticides containing 2,4- Dinitrophenol moieties.


    Acute toxic effects may include the death of animals, birds, or fish, and death or low growth rate in plants.

    Acute effects are seen two to four days after animals or plants come in contact with a toxic chemical substance.

    2,4-Dinitrophenol has high acute toxicity to aquatic life and to birds. Insufficient data are available to evaluate or predict the short-term effects of 2,4-Dinitrophenol to plants or land animals.


    Chronic toxic effects may include shortened lifespan, reproductive problems, lower fertility, and changes in appearance or behavior. Chronic effects can be seen long after first exposure(s) to a toxic chemical.

    2,4-Dinitrophenol has moderate chronic toxicity to aquatic life. Insufficient data are available to evaluate or predict the long- term effects of 2,4-Dinitrophenol to plants, birds, or land animals.


    2,4-Dinitrophenol is moderately soluble in water. Concentrations of between 1 to 1,000 milligrams will mix with a liter of water.


    2,4-Dinitrophenol is slightly persistent in water, with a half-life of between 2 to 20 days. The half-life of a pollutant is the amount of time it takes for one-half of the chemical to be degraded. About 98.75% of 2,4-Dinitrophenol will eventually end up in water; about 0.65% will end up in terrestrial soil; and about 0.6% will end up in aquatic sediments.


    Some substances increase in concentration, or bioaccumulate, in living organisms as they breathe contaminated air, drink contaminated water, or eat contaminated food. These chemicals can become concentrated in the tissues and internal organs of animals and humans.

    The concentration of 2,4-Dinitrophenol found in fish tissues is expected to be somewhat higher than the average concentration of 2,4-Dinitrophenol in the water from which the fish was taken. SUPPORT DOCUMENT: AQUIRE Database, ERL-Duluth, U.S.EPA.

  6. #6
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    So let’s get down to the real deal with DNP then. This is what this article is on about anyway. So put those surgical gloves on and handle with care.

    OK so first thing, I dried the DNP powder for two days under a 60W light bulb. I had been reading about the flammable/explosive qualities of this thing, and I wasn’t too comfortable doing that. I had to leave it overnight under the bulb and I kept having vision of the thing drying out too much and blowing up, knocking away half my house with it. Or maybe the bulb would fall in and ignite the whole shebang. Fortunately for me, the light bulb stayed put so there were no fires. Also, when I had the powder dried to my liking, I took some granules and subjected them to forceful compression, but there were no satisfying bangs. So this thing is at least moderately safe from a detonative point of view.

    The powder itself comes in wetted form, and it is a sticky, dark yellow mass that cakes easily. In fact, what characterized my batch was that every time I tried to put some powder on my filter paper so that I could put it under the bulb to dry, large lumps would roll out and spread DNP granules everywhere. This doesn’t sound too bad, but I quickly noticed that the damn stuff colors everything it touches yellow. Pretty soon, my desk, my balance top (the color passed right through the filter paper) and even my fingers looked like hyperactive canaries. I was using surgical gloves to handle the powder (DNP is carcinogenic so the less time it spends in contact with your fingertips the better) but the color even seeped through those. So one word of caution: don’t play with this stuff in your Sunday clothes; if you stain them, there will be hell to pay either from your wife or your Mom. Also, put some absorbent paper on your desk and save yourself some nouveau design interior decorating. The desk doesn’t look too pretty with bright yellow blotches on anyway. Trust me. I’m talking from personal experience.

    OK, so finally, I got the stuff on the filter paper and under the bulb, and I left it there to dry out with some trepidation (you know the whole thing could blow up somehow). I decided that after a couple of days that the powder was dry enough so that I could weigh the thing out and put it into my capsules. I use a digital scale, which, though pretty accurate, only measures to the nearest tenth of a gram, which allows for some margin of error. (The models that are accurate to a thousandth of a gram are a bit out of my price range, you know, like way expensive.) Well a tenth of a degree aint that bad if you are a bit careful. I tried to bypass this error by measuring each sample out several times so that I could see if the balance gave me the same weighing out at least on three occasions. More time consuming I know but again, I had heard really unpleasant things about DNP so I wasn’t gonna risk my ass. I dint wanna fry by ingesting too much of the stuff.

    So I had my first 200mg lying there on a filter paper, which I noticed with interest, was already becoming yellow. (I of course took no notice of the tenacious staining abilities of DNP at this early stage; that came later when I looked at my hands and my desk and started swearing.) To transfer the dose to a cap, I used a home made paper funnel, which I rapidly discovered is a pretty good way of contributing to your high blood pressure that can come by using those nasty roids. The darn thing gets clogged pretty regularly and seeing that you can get some lumpy bits of DNP (compared to opening of the funnel) that haven’t dried properly, this doesn’t help at all. I’ll try to get a micro glass funnel that fits into the cap opening next time; maybe this will work out better. Of course, if you could get a cap filler, all the more power to you, it will make your life much easier. I am presently just working with what I can get my hands on. I dint bother looking for a cap filler cause I seem to be doing OK just this way. Apart from swearing and changing funnels frequently that is.

    Well, I transferred enough powder to make 10 caps (to last me five days, because I am presently taking 200mg twice daily, to get me up to the required total of 400mg. The first cap was by far the hardest to take; all the horror stories I heard about DNP would come flooding to me every time I put the darn thing near my mouth. It was like I was going to swallow arsenic or something for Godsakes. OK, so I delayed taking the DNP till about 8 o’clock at night, until I got pretty pissed at myself. So, as I was eating my meal, I got the cap and said "To hell with it. No fear right?" and slammed the thing right down my gullet right on top of my pasta and eggwhites. I refrained (barely) from calling my gal up for a fond farewell (feeling damn stupid for thinking that too). I took 1500mg of Vitamin C and 50µg of Cytomel along with it too. The Vitamin C is purportedly for replenishing the Vitamin C that DNP vacuums from the corneas, which can cause cataracts in the long run, while the Cytomel replenishes the T3 in the liver. This is because the temperature elevation induced by DNP will slow down to a great extent the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver, so the Cytomel brings you up to normal values without any danger of becoming hypothyroidal.

    Well, I was surprised when time wore by and there were no sudden pains or nasty regurgitation of foul-tasting, DNP-filled stomach exudates. I didn’t feel so hot either so I figured that the first DNP dose didn’t produce such a dramatic effect. I was pretty relieved when I woke up next morning too; at least the damn stuff hadn’t killed me in my sleep. I know this all sounds pretty stupid but when you hear all that horror stuff about how DNP is the deadliest thing you can put in your mouth, you get kind of relieved that you are still breathing. I am not saying that DNP is safe of course, it is still a chemical that you have to treat with a lot of respect but a little common sense does go a long way.

    Well I took my 200mg DNP, 1500mg Vitamin C, and 50µg Cytomel doses, twice daily for the next three days without noticing anything much except maybe some hot flashes every now and then. I was getting pretty disappointed with the DNP maybe because I had been expecting a little bit too much from it. As I have mentioned before, my drying and weighing methods were not extremely accurate so I could have been underdosing somewhat, which might explain the lack of effect for the first three days. Of course, I noticed in retrospect that in very cold weather (relatively cold weather, I should say, our winters could be called other people’s summers but we here aren’t used to the cold very much so anything under 20 degrees Celsius is cold weather) you don’t really notice that you are feeling warm, much warmer than you should. I noticed this when I took a few days’ break off DNP, the reason for which I explain later on in this article. In fact, within two or three days of stopping ingestion, I noticed that the weather was damn cold and my fingers constantly threatened to fall off. However, on the middle of the third day of DNP usage, the first real heatwave hit me. I spent like three hours sweating noticeably, with my face a very conspicuous red. That was the start of it. From that day on, as long as my first cycle of DNP lasted, I would get heatwaves lasting anything up to five hours a few hours after my DNP dose. They would then taper off slowly, only to come back on a little after each successive dose. You quickly get used to this feeling, however, but I quickly learnt that it is not a good idea to go to certain places while on DNP. Let me illustrate this with an example. Spielberg’s movie "Saving Private Ryan" was on at the local movie theatre, and as I had heard a lot of positive comments about it, I decided to go and see it. Which turned out to be a damn bad idea. I was pretty fine for the first fifteen minutes of the movie, but then I started to notice that the room was getting a bit warm. The seat was getting pretty friggin hot too. I wriggled around trying to find a comfortable position (the seats are a bit small for me too I think - I’m no heavyweight but somehow I seem to find all the uncomfortable spots that kept digging into my back). Fifteen minutes later, sweat was streaming happily down my face, my back and my legs. I could feel my jeans getting damp against the back of my legs, and I could feel drops of sweat rolling down my calves into my socks. I started puffing a bit too, which was a bit embarrassing to say the least. I began to think this was turning out to be a very bad way to spend a Friday night. I wondered why the hell the air-conditioning wasn’t turned on. (It was, as it turned out later.) One hour after the start of the movie I found myself prayin for the intermission so that I could go outside in the fresh air and cool down a little. Of course, as luck would have it, "Saving Private Ryan" was turning out to be a damn long movie and the intermission took forever to happen. For a few seconds, I thought the movie might as well have been named "Saving Sweating Iceman". Well, when the intermission came, I very impolitely trampled everybody’s feet on the way out of my aisle, because I was so desperate to get out of that oven. Outside the theatre in the lobby, patrons kept on giving me funny stares, and I guess I must have been a sight cause I must have looked like someone coming from some sprinting race somewhere. The air outside was so cool and refreshing, it was like heaven. Of course, to normal, DNP-free human beings, it was freezing cold. The usher saw me outside and must have taken pity at my sweat-drenched face cause he came over concerned and asked me if the viewing room was too hot, to which I nodded very vigorously. I must have been very convincing (as indeed I was) because when I went back inside for my next ordeal, I saw him remotely setting the air conditioning. The units there are pretty big cause within five minutes, the most delicious cool air wafted around the room. This is great, I thought, I’m actually gonna enjoy the rest of the movie. However, I had misjudged the reactions of the rest of the audience. A few minutes later, a few sparse grumbles were heard from about two rows behind me, asking nobody in particular if the usher thought we were Eskimos. The rumble of discontent grew until it was a definitely audible wave of complaints. Witty comments like "Does he wanna freeze my balls off?" and "Someone go tell him that if my gal keeps on asking me to warm her up, I can’t see the movie" caused a general titter. Finally, I saw someone go down the aisle and I figured that my minutes of comfort were over. In fact, the usher came back in and amidst a load of rabid remarks and catcalls set the airconditioner back to its previous setting.

    Suffice it to say "Saving Private Ryan" didn’t turn out to be the experience I had hoped it would be.

    OK back to us. I was saying that the first of the heatwaves actually started somewhere around the third day of my DNP cycle. However, as my cycle progressed, I noticed that other side effects came through, most, if not all, of which were definitely funny. I’ll try to explain some of them here, as they happened to me.

    OK, so here’s the sweaty part of it. Sweat is probably the most conspicuous part of DNP use. Animal has suggested that taking glycerol daily while on the DNP will greatly offset this particular side effect. Indeed, if you can get your hands on the stuff (I can supply it if you are interested, e-mail for details), feel free to take 10ml every day and see how that affects you. Personally, I took 15ml of glycerol for 2 days and the stuff made me damn sick. First of all it is so friggin sweet that it made me retch. I have no sweet tooth whatsoever and I confess to having very few weaknesses in the candy store department. (The few ones that I have are murder though.) So glycerol just doesn’t appeal to me whatsoever. Actually, I just can’t look glycerol in the face anymore. So I skip it and sweat it out but I know of people who can tolerate it pretty well and take it regularly with their DNP. And you do really sweat it out cause when the heatwaves hit you; you just drip like hell. As I said before, avoid, hot crampy places unless ya wanna end up slugging someone. Then, at night, you’ll sweat in third gear. You’ll wake up in a slick of sweaty bad clothes. Lyle McDonald said in his article on DNP that there are good ways and bad ways to soak bedsheets in sweat and this isn’t a good way. I have come to agree with the guy wholeheartedly. It’s pretty bad when you wake up and you feel like a cow has licked you all over. Three times. One particularly off putting part for me was feeling the pillow (which feels like it has a heater in it set on low) slide wetly against my oozing neck. Another important thing here, which I would like to share: don’t go to bed with the chick of your life when you have been on this stuff for a few days. She’ll be put off you forever in the morning. Well, that said, a few days later, you would notice that your sweat starts to change. First off, you’ll note a very gradual change in color. You will start leaving tell tale tracks of yellow stains on your underwear or your shirt collar. So anyone with mothers or wives or girlfriends doing the laundry, beware. That yellow line along the shirt collar is like waving a red flag at a bull.

    And that is not all there is to the sweaty details. Personally speaking, I seemed to sweat most markedly from my groin area and the inside cleft of my legs. Believe me, at times it was like I had pissed myself. And that is not funny at all. I shower at least once a day under normal conditions, but, while on DNP, three times a day was not an uncommon occurrence. I just got to the point when having dry leg clefts was a mission. And then, it got even worse when the smell of DNP started emanating from my lower regions. It is not what one would call an extremely unpleasant or foul smell, but one thing for sure dammit, it certainly aint human in origin. You start smelling real funny, from your whole body in general and from your testicular regions in particular. (Even the sweat you leave in your clothes will yell "DNP, DNP, DNP".) So another shred of bad news for those interested in starting DNP but still wanna get blowjobs. I can offer three possible solutions: one, tell the gal who’s gonna blow you what you are doing in the nicest possible way, find a gal who has problems in discerning odors, or get someone who just doesn’t give a damn in doing these things to Farmer Brown after he has come in from a day in the fields and is too bothered to wash. Any other homemade solutions are welcomed, by the way.

    This brings me to another point in detailing the particularly tenacious ability of DNP to find its way into most bodily fluids or secretions. On the particularly visual side, you will see that your urine will change color. It will go from pale, watery yellow (or whatever the heck your present urine color is) to a really bright pastel yellow. Which means flush the toilet when if you are a guest at some people’s house. It also a particularly neat thing to have handy if you have pesky neighbor’s dog that keeps on barking at night, especially if it is white. Devise an ingenious method to piss on it without getting your nuts bitten off, so you can stain its fur with yellow streaks. This is guaranteed to drive the owner’s nuts. Apart from urine, sweat is also another destination for DNP, as is obvious from what has been discussed earlier. DNP also gets into your semen eventually, which will gradually change to pale yellow if you are on the stuff for long enough. This brings up a particularly important point. DNP, due to it’s carcinogenic and mutagenic properties, has potential danger to all living cells. I would surmise therefore, that there would be a grave danger in having intercourse while on DNP where there is a potential risk of a pregnancy occurring. (I would be pleased to hear if anyone has a different or contrasting version of my theory.) I also suspect that any DNP present in the semen (which will occur if DNP has been taken for a long enough continuous period of time) may be absorbed through the oral mucous if semen is held for some time in the mouth and more so if it is swallowed. In reality, this route of DNP ingestion will probably result in a minimal amount of DNP being absorbed but one should take into consideration that the 400mg recommended daily dosage is for 200lb+ bodybuilders. Individuals of smaller weight (as a lot of females are) would need a much lesser dose to produce noticeable effects. According to feedback which I have received from informal surveying, the most apparent effects are minimal, mostly tachycardia (increased heartbeat) and headaches. However, I have to admit that more scientific research is definitely needed to prove this point. I thought it worth mentioning however.

    Another area I’d like to see research into (though I doubt it will happen) is whether DNP has potential to be deposited in other bodily systems such as the sclera (the white part of the eye), teeth (these two areas are obviously undesirable end points for this chemical due to the obvious negative visual effects), and other areas such as bones and internal organs. In this way, one could determine whether DNP supplementation could have negative effects in this manner of passing through the body.

    Another thing one will notice with DNP is its effect on the intestinal system. I don’t know precisely, by which mechanism this works but I have noticed and confirmed with other users that, while on DNP, one will experience a fairly uncomfortable diarrhea. While the condition in itself is not debilitating to any degree, it will be uncomfortable to have to go to the toilet several times a day. On a personal note, I noticed that even though I would have visited the toilet before going to the gym, this situation would be a particular nuisance during workouts cause it makes ya think of your bowels all the time. These means squats are definitely not funny. If they ever were that is.

    DNP also rewards one with what it feels like to be a fat, out-of-shape slob because one very definite thing it brings about is acute shortness of breath on minimal exertion. In fact, climbing the stairs will have you puffing like a hippo. I read about this condition somewhere but I can’t recall the info offhand. Actually, this had me quite worried until I came off DNP and I found that my breathing returned to normal fairly quickly. Socially, this can turn out to be a bit embarrassing as well. We are bodybuilders after all. Stairs or tying our shoelaces shouldn’t phase us for Godsakes.

    However, by far the worst condition I experienced while on DNP was an incredible dryness of my throat. This would range from fairly uncomfortable during the daytime (presumably because the normal swallowing mechanism of saliva, drink and food that take place during waking hours kept the tracheo-pharynegeal region lubricated) to really painful at night. In fact, night times turned particularly nasty as my throat desiccated itself to sandpaper dryness while I was asleep. It even got bad enough to wake me up at times, and drinking water had little to no effect on the condition. Breathing was markedly difficult at night, and snoring apparently increased to an intolerable crescendo. I do have to admit that sometimes I snored so loudly I woke myself up. I also noticed that throat dryness was so marked that I had definite sensations (I suspect in the epiglottal region) that my throat was sticking together. Swallowing felt like pulling a Post-It note off the wall at times. At worst, it got painful enough to make me wince and curse my DNP indulgence. This was definitely one of the worst aspects of my cycle and it made me quit taking DNP for a few days until the pain wore off.

    This throat dryness also produced incredible tenacious phlegm, which I found almost impossible to expectorate. (Seems to me like this DNP turns you into a damn unsociable freak really.) While I could feel the phlegm clinging to my throat as I talked or swallowed (you all know what it feels like), bringing it up was a mission from God. I used to clear my throat so hard that I became hoarse for a few days. The secretion itself was so dry that it felt like a rope. Spitting this in public is not recommended because you get so pissed off at constantly trying to bring the phlegm up that on the invariable occasions that you do manage, you feel like you have won a small victory on some incredibly irritating enemy and you feel the need to vent this aggravation by spitting it out with a marked flair and savagery. Keep this one in mind folks. I did this without even realizing it when I was with my girl waiting to buy tickets at the movies and God; it took all my charm to make her relent for embarrassing her.


    Well, I think that is about all there is to say for now about DNP use. I hope that someone out there will find this information useful. I tried to present it in as easily an accessible a manner as possible so that one can easily identify himself with the various conditions that they may experience while using DNP. It’s good to be informed beforehand about anything. Forewarned is, after all, forearmed. In conclusion I would like to say that DNP does its fat burning job admirably. I have never seen anything as powerful as this thing for burning fat. A friend of mine once said that the only thing he knew about DNP was that it burnt fat like hellfire and I think that phrase describes DNP perfectly. I lost fat while eating over 5000Cals a day, which, you must admit, is no mean feat. So any of you out there wishing to try DNP do your homework and see if DNP is for you. I hope that this short write up answers some of your questions and makes your decisions more informed.

    (If anyone is interested in buying DNP, please contact me on the addy below. I can supply lab grade DNP 99.9% purity.)

    Loads of care everybody. Keep smilin.

    Iceman (

  7. #7
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Section III -- Supplements/Herbs

    Part 1




    *Editors note:

    This I believe makes for an interesting article because plenty of your Meal Replacement Powders, whey protein Powders and soft drinks are made with ASPARTAME. This article really opened my eyes to this but confirmed my suspicions about the F.D.A.

    Article written by Nancy Markle (1120197)

    I have spent several days lecturing at the WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE on "ASPARTAME marketed as 'NutraSweet', 'Equal', and 'Spoonful"'. In the keynote address by the EPA, they announced that there was an epidemic of multiple sclerosis and systemic lupus, and they did not understand what toxin was causing this to be rampant across the United States. I explained that I was there to lecture on exactly that subject.

    When the temperature of Aspartame exceeds 86 degrees F, the wood alcohol in ASPARTAME coverts to formaldehyde and then to formic acid, which in turn causes metabolic acidosis. (Formic acid is the poison found in the sting of fire ants). The methanol toxicity mimics multiple sclerosis; thus people were being diagnosed with having multiple sclerosis in error. The multiple sclerosis is not a death sentence, where methanol toxicity is.

    In the case of systemic lupus, we are finding it has become almost as rampant as multiple sclerosis, especially Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi drinkers. Also, with methanol toxicity, the victims usually drink three to four 12 oz. Cans of them per day, some even more. In the cases of systemic lupus, which is triggered by ASPARTAME, the victim usually does not know that the aspartame is the culprit. The victim continues its use aggravating the lupus to such a degree, that sometimes it becomes life threatening. When we get people off the aspartame, those with systemic lupus usually become asymptomatic. Unfortunately, we can not reverse this disease.

    On the other hand, in the case of those diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, (when in reality, the disease is methanol toxicity), most of the symptoms disappear. We have seen cases where their

    vision has returned and even their hearing has returned. This also applies to cases of tinnitus.

    During a lecture I said "If you are using ASPARTAME (NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, etc.) and you suffer from fibromyalgia symptoms, spasms, shooting pains, numbness in your legs, cramps, vertigo, dizziness, headaches, tinnitus, joint pain, depression, anxiety attacks, slurred speech, blurred vision, or memory loss-you probably have ASPARTAME DISEASE!" People were jumping up during the lecture saying, "I've got this, is it reversible?"

    It is rampant. Some of the speakers at my lecture even were suffering from these symptoms. In one lecture attended by the Ambassador of Uganda, he told us that their sugar industry is adding aspartame! He continued by saying that one of the industry leader's son could no longer walk - due in part by product usage!

    We have a very serious problem. Even a stranger came up to Dr. Espisto (one of my speakers) and myself and said, 'Could you tell me why so many people seem to be coming down with MS?

    During a visit to a hospice, a nurse said that six of her friends, who were heavy Diet Coke addicts, had all been diagnosed with MS. This is beyond coincidence. Here is the problem. There were Congressional Hearings when aspartame was included in 100 different products. Since this initial hearing, there have been two subsequent hearings, but to no avail. Nothing as been done. The drug and chemical lobbies have very deep pockets. Now there are over 5,000 products containing this chemical, and the PATENT HAS EXPIRED!!!!! At the time of this first hearing, people were going blind. The methanol in the aspartame converts to formaldehyde in the retina of the eye. Formaldehyde is grouped in the same class of drugs as cyanide and arsenic-DEADLY POISONS!!! Unfortunately, it just takes longer to quietly kill, but it is killing people and causing

    all kinds of neurological problems.

    Aspartame changes the brain's chemistry. It is the reason for severe seizures. This drug changes the dopamine level in the brain. Imagine what this drug does to patients suffering from Parkinson's Disease. This drug also causes Birth Defects. There is absolutely no reason to take this product. It is NOT A DIET PRODUCT!!! The Congressional record said, "It makes you crave

    carbohydrates and will make you FAT". Dr. Roberts stated that when he got patients off aspartame, their average weight loss was 19 pounds per person. The formaldehyde stores in the fat cells, particularly in the hips and thighs.

    Aspartame is especially deadly for diabetics. All physicians know what wood alcohol will do to a diabetic. We find that physicians believe that they have patients with retinopathy, when in fact,

    it is caused by the aspartame. The aspartame keeps the blood sugar level out of control, causing many patients to go into a coma. Unfortunately, many have died. People were telling us at the

    Conference of the American College of Physicians, that they had relatives that switched from saccharin to an aspartame product and how that relative had eventually gone into a coma. Their

    physicians could not get the blood sugar levels under control. Thus, the patients suffered acute memory loss and eventually coma and death.

    Memory loss is due to the fact that aspartic acid and phenylalanine are neurotoxic without the other amino acids found in protein. Thus it goes past the blood brain barrier and deteriorates the

    neurons of the brain. Dr. Russell Blaylock, neurosurgeon, said, "The ingredients stimulates the neurons of the brain to death, causing brain damage of varying degrees. Dr. Blaylock has written a book entitled "EXCITOTOXINS: THE TASTE THAT KILLS" (Health Press 1-800-643-2665). Dr. H.J. Roberts, diabetic specialist and world expert on aspartame poisoning, has also written a book entitled "DEFENSE AGAINST ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE" (1-800-814-9800). Dr. Roberts tells how aspartame poisoning is escalating Alzheimer's Disease, and indeed it is. As the hospice nurse told me, women are being admitted at 30 years of age with Alzheimer'sDisease. Dr. Blaylock and Dr. Roberts will be writing a position paper with some case histories and will post it on the Internet. According to the Conference of the American College of Physicians, 'We are talking about a plague of neurological diseases caused by this deadly poison".

    Dr. Roberts realized what was happening when aspartame was first marketed. He said "his diabetic patients presented memory loss, confusion, and severe vision loss". At the Conference of the American College of Physicians, doctors admitted that they did not know. They had wondered why seizures were rampant (the phenylalanine in aspartame breaks down the seizure threshold and depletes serotonin, which causes manic depression, panic attacks, rage and violence).

    Just before the Conference, I received a FAX from Norway, asking for a possible antidote for this poison because they are experiencing so many problems in their country. This "poison" is now available in 90 PLUS countries worldwide. Fortunately, we had speakers and ambassadors

    at the Conference from different nations who have pledged their help. Print this article out and warn everyone you know. Take anything that contains aspartame back to the store. Take the "NO ASPARTAME TEST" and send us your case history.

    I assure you that MONSANTO, the creator of aspartame, knows how deadly it is. They fund the American Diabetes Association, American Dietetic Association, Congress, and the Conference of the American College of Physicians. The New York Times, on November 15, 1996, ran an article on how the American Dietetic Association takes money from the food industry to endorse their products. Therefore, they can not criticize any additives or tell about their link to MONSANTO. How bad is this? We told a mother who had a child on NutraSweet to get off the product. The child was having grand mal seizures every day. The mother called her physician, who called the ADA, who told the doctor not to take the child off the NutraSweet. We are still trying to

    Convince the mother that the aspartame is causing the seizures. Every time we get someone off of aspartame, the seizures stop. If the baby dies, you know whose fault it is, and what we are up against. There are 92 documented symptoms of aspartame, from coma to death. The majority

    of them are all neurological, because the aspartame destroys the nervous system.

    Aspartame Disease is partially the cause to what is behind some of the mystery of the Dessert Storm health problems. The burning tongue and other problems discussed in over 60 cases can be directly related to the consumption of an aspartame product. Several thousand pallets of

    diet drinks were shipped to the Dessert Storm troops. (Remember heat can liberate the methanol from the aspartame at 86 degrees F). Diet drinks sat in the 120 degree F. Arabian sun for weeks at a time on pallets. The service men and women drank them all day long. All of their symptoms are identical to aspartame poisoning. Dr. Roberts says "consuming aspartame at the time of conception can cause birth defects".

    The phenylalanine concentrates in the placenta, causing mental retardation, according to Dr. Louis Elsas, Pediatrician Professor - Genetics, at Emory University in his testimony before Congress.

    In the original lab tests, animals developed brain tumors (phenylalanine breaks down into DXP, a brain tumor agent). When Dr. Espisto was lecturing on aspartame me, one physician in the

    audience, a neurosurgeon, said, "when they remove brain tumors, they have found high levels of aspartame in them".

    Stevia, a sweet food, NOT AN ADDITIVE, which helps in the metabolism of sugar, which would be ideal for diabetics, has now been approved as a dietary supplement by the F.D.A. For years, the F.D.A. has outlawed this sweet food because of their loyalty to MONSANTO.

    If it says "SUGAR FREE" on the label-DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!! Senator Howard Hetzenbaum wrote a bill that would have warned all infants, pregnant mothers and children of the dangers of aspartame. The bill would have also instituted independent studies on the problems existing in the population (seizures, changes in brain chemistry, changes in neurological and behavioral symptoms). It was killed by the powerful drug and chemical lobbies, letting loose the hounds of disease and death on an unsuspecting public.

    Since the Conference of the American College of Physicians, we hope to have the help of some world leaders. Again, please help us too. There are a lot of people out there who must be warned, *please* let them know this information.


    Women's Cancer Resource Center

    Laurie Moser, Assistant Director

    1815 East 41st Street, Suite C

    Minneapolis, MN 55407-3425

    1800-908-8544 or 612-729-0491 PHONE

    612-729-0591 FAX EMAIl

  8. #8
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts
    Part 2

    Understanding ProHormones

    I am a big fan of reading the various muscle magazines. My biggest pet-peeves about these various magazines is that they are becoming huge billboards and advertisements. If I have to read another article about creatine, Im going to scream. Every magazine has advertisements that tout their creatine or creatine drink is the best and most effective. Then you have to get past the main products that each magazine hawks. MuscleMag is big into Muscletec products. Ironman claims that MuscleLink is the best. Muscle Media pushes EAS of course. You know what I mean. Now the big supplement that is hitting the scene is pro-hormones. Of course everyone touts theirs is the most potent and the most effective. It does get confusing. So hopefully I can write this article so you know what is the best for your body. Lets start.

    Here is a Q & A Technical Fact Sheet:

    1. What are Prohormones?

    Prohormones are Precursor Hormones (pro=pre) This refers to a Prohormone that converts into its parent hormone.

    2. How does the body convert these Prohormones into their corresponding parent hormones?

    The prohormones are converted in the body by liver enzymes. The diones utilize 17beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and the diols utilize 3beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase.

    3. What Prohormones are currently being utilized by supplement companies?

    4-androstene3, 17dione (Androstenedione)

    4-androstene3, 17diol (4-Androstenediol)

    5-androstene3, 17diol (5-Androstenediol)

    19-nor4-androstene3, 17dione (19-Norandrostenedione)

    19-nor4-androstene3, 17diol (19-Nor4-Androstenediol)

    19-nor5-androstene3, 17diol (19-Nor5-Androstenediol)

    4. What does the DIONE and the DIOL ending represent?

    These endings represent the type of double bond. The dione has a double ketone bond

    (di=double one=detone). The diol has a double hydroxyl bond (di=double ol=hydroxyl)

    5. What is Androstenedione?

    Androstenedione is a prohormone produced by the adrenal gland and can be found in the pollen of Scotch pine trees. Androstenedione is one metabolic step away from testosterone. Testosterone is an androgenic/anabolic hormone. This means testosterone can impart male characteristics when administered in a high enough dose.

    6. Can Androstenedione shut down my natural production of Andro or Testosterone?

    If taken in the recommended dose andro should not shut down natural hormone production. This is due to the fact that the prohormone conversion only lasts about 3 hours, which is not a long enough time to signal the adrenal gland to shut down.

    7. What is 19-Norandrostenedione?

    19-Norandrostenedione is androstenedione with a carbon molecule missing from the 19th position. 19-Norandrostenedione is one metabolic step away from nor-testosterone or nandralone. Nor-testosterone is an anabolic/androgenic hormone. This means nor-testosterone imparts very little male characteristic side effects.

    8. Is there a difference between the delta 4 & 5 versions of the DIOLS?

    The delta refers to the number preceding the word andro. Example: 4 andro, 5 andro. This number represents the position of the chemical bond. The delta 4 version has been shown to be dramatically more efficient than the delta 5 version. The delta 5 version has been shown to have minimal anabolic activity and a high rate of estrogen conversion. This difference is due to the fact that a delta 4 prohormone can directly convert to testosterone while the delta 5 must first convert to delta 4 via an isomerase enzyme.

    9. Are the DIOLS better than the DIONES?

    The diols utilize a different enzyme for conversion and have been recently shown to have a higher rate of conversion. The diones have a 6% conversion while the diols have a 16% conversion rate.

    10. Is it beneficial to stack the DIONES and DIOLS?

    Since these compounds utilize different enzymes for conversion, there would be no enzymatic competition between the prohormones. This would allow full conversion of both compounds resulting in the highest percentage of hormone.


    * Estrogen conversion: Yes

    * DHT conversion: Yes

    * Testosterone conversion: moderate

    * Anabolic effects: low

    * Beneficial for: men


    * Estrogen conversion: No

    * DHT conversion: No

    * Testosterone conversion: high

    * Anabolic effects: very high

    * Beneficial for: men


    * Estrogen conversion: Yes

    * DHT conversion: No

    * Testosterone conversion: low

    * Anabolic effects: moderate

    * Beneficial for: women


    * Estrogen conversion: Yes

    * DHT conversion: No

    * Nor-Testosterone conversion: moderate

    * Anabolic effects: moderate

    * Beneficial for: men and women


    * Estrogen conversion: No

    * DHT conversion: No

    * Nor-Testosterone conversion: high

    * Anabolic effects: very high

    * Beneficial for: men


    * Estrogen conversion: Yes

    * DHT conversion: No

    * Nor-Testosterone conversion: moderate

    * Anabolic effects: low

    * Beneficial for: women

    Now as you have just read, I have laid out the effects of each of the Pro-Hormones and how the can benefit or can be a waste of time and money. As you can see, all of them have good points and some have good as well as bad points. I will now delve into more technical data on how these compounds work for you.

    Im going to assume that if you are reading this you are a novice pro-hormone user. I will begin the breakdown of these formulas by explaining the conversion of these compounds. The 19 Nordiol and 19 Nordione both convert into nor-testosterone or nandralone. Nandralone is an anabolic/androgenic hormone, which is the base of the anabolic steroid Deca-Durabolin. Androdiol and Androstene converts into testosterone. Testosterone is an androgenic/anabolic hormone responsible for muscular growth and male characteristics. The next area of concern is the diol and the dione endings. The diol ending represents a double hydroxyl bond (di=two ol=hydroxyl) and the dione represents a double ketone bond (di=two one=ketone). The nordiols utilize the liver enzyme 3 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and the diones utilize 17-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase. This means you have two sources of nandralone using two different enzymes for conversion. Since there is no competition for the same enzyme, you end us with the highest rate of nandralone conversion. The diols are thought to have about 16% conversion while the diones have about a 6% conversion rate. Now that we have a basic framework of what the norandros are doing let me explain the next compound. 4-Androdiol can convert into testosterone. 4-Androdiol utilizes the liver enzyme 3 beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase. Before I explain why 4-androdiol is the best testosterone precursor, we need to understand what the delta number represents. The delta number is found in front of the word andro (4-andro, 5-andro). Some companies would like you to think that the delta 5 version of androdiol and 19nordiol are superior compounds. In reality, research shows that 5-androdiol has minimal anabolic and androgenic activity.<1> 5-Androdiol has also been shown to have a high rate of estrogen activity. <2> Estrogen is considered a negative side effect due to the possibility of causing gynocomastia. 4-Androdiol, on the other hand, can not directly convert into estrogen and research has shown that it can raise testosterone appoximately 300% greater than androstenedione. <3,4> The same rationale can be applied to 19-nor5diol and 19-nor4diol due the structural simularity of the compounds. The manufacturers that supply 19-nor5diol have no research to show that this compound has any anabolic activity. So with this information, you can see that it is beneficial to stack the diols and the diones. The diols have a higher rate of hormonal conversion, the delta 4 versions are superior than the 5 delta versions.

    To best utilize these pro-hormones, I recommend that you take a dose at least three times a day. At least 1 hour before you workout and an hour after you workout and one before you sleep for the night. Usually the supplement companies recommend that you only take 2 doses, but I have found that the regimine I stated above yields greater results. I have also recommended this schedule to friends and they too have yielded great results rather than the 2 dose a day regimine.


    1. Ruzicka, Wettstein, 1935. Helva Chim. Acta 18. 1264

    2. Seymour-Mun K., Adams J. 1983. "Estrogenic effects of 5-androstene3, 17diol at physiological concentrations and its possible i

    implications in the etiology in breast cancer." Endocrinology. 112; p. 486-491

    3. Blaquier 1957. "In vitro metabolism of androgens in whole human blood." Acta Endocrinolgica. 55; p. 697-704

    4. Ziegenfuss, Lambert, Lowery. 1998. Accepted for presentation. Int Congress Weightlifting Strength Training. Nov. 10-12,

    Lahti, Finland.

  9. #9
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Section IV -- Training Hints and tips

    Part 1

    The "Nine Pivot Points"

    There are a lot of bodybuilders or people that go to the gym that work out to look good. Nothing more, nothing less. Lets face it, we all get a sense of satisfaction when you are walking around and your physique attracts positive attention. As humans our eyes are drawn to a beautiful physique on a man, or a curvaceous woman. Men do look at other men. Not necessarily as an attraction. But as a bodybuilder, I do get more compliments from men than women. Usually these compliment stem from envy. Im also an accomplished artist. When I paint a landscape, I usually do a landscape that exists only in my imagination. But what I am very conscious of is the "focal" or "pivot" points of the painting. The focal point in the painting is where ones eyes will first be attracted to. So therefore you must create balance. You cannot have a focal point in the top left of the painting. If you do, then the painting will lack balance and the viewer will not be able to appreciate the whole painting. It is sort of like your body. Bodybuilding is art to me. Sculpting comes to mind. As bodybuilders we are constantly striving not only to become bigger but to become more beautiful. You must constantly be aware of your symmetry. One bicep bigger than the other looks off balance and a viewers eye will catch it. So you have to work on the focal or the pivot points of your body! These points consist of those "stunning" bodyparts strategically located where they "pivot" the eye... Generally they are far out from the center or belly of the muscle. When developed they lend a beauty to the physique which size alone cannot accomplish. When you see a body with even the beginning of well developed... upper pecs, lower lats, forearms, lower biceps, lower calves, long head of tricep etc. you just can't take your eyes away. Even though others may be twice the size, they don't have the impact on your senses like one who works on his "Nine Pivot Points".

    What are these points?

    First are Side And Rear Deltoids. Big round full caps on the side and rear... aren't expected... so they catch your eye. You can't tear your eyes away when you see these areas swelling

    unexpectedly out of nowhere. In fact, the image remains etched in your brain long after the guy's gone.

    Second Is Upper Pecs. Granted you see some great lower pecs but once in a lifetime do you see a"Franco Columbo" pair of upper pecs. They are uncommonly fascinating. One glimpse and

    you're hooked.

    Third is Lower Lats. Yeah lots of guys are wide and lots of guys are thick but seldom do you see a back that's got "heart". I'm talking about lats that don't taper down but almost curve up at

    the bottom. It doesn't take genetics... it takes focus and unique exercises.

    Fifth is Lower Biceps. Most guys have biceps that start further up the arm. What I mean is that the part above the elbow is thick but then an inch you can see the start of the bicep and up high near the shoulder is where most of the mass is. I found that the way to work on the lower part of the bicep is to make a minor adjustment using the E-Z Curl bar. Most grab the curl bar at the most comfortable spot. This position usually will make the pinky finger lower than the thumb. Instead of grabbing the bar there, place your hands out wide to the last angle of the bar. The pinkys will be higher than the thumb. In this position, you will be slightly uncomfortable because your arms will angle away from your body and your elbows will be in more toward your abdomen. This looks weird but it is the correct position. I am able to brace my elbows with my abs and that will also help you too. Raise the weight slowly – 3 to 5 second count, squeeze hard at the top and lower slowly. You will feel the lower part of the bicep when you do this. I usually do 3 sets with my hands in the correct comfortable position and 3 with the outer position. After this my biceps are pumped and burning to the max all over. Give it a try!

    Sixth is the long head of the tricep

    Seventh is Forearms.

    When you get these three... the bicep, tricep and forearm... developed to their maximum, they add a symmetry and beauty to the arm which defies all description. This fully developed package is so impressive... so stunning... you don't even have to flex your arm. You can stick it straight out and still cause jaws to drop. It's much more impressive than a huge arm which has to be flexed to look good.

    Eighth is Vastus Internus (Teardrop) and Thigh Biceps When it comes to thighs, the teardrop muscle has "got it". They add flair to an otherwise thick and bulky looking thigh and thigh biceps

    are not far behind.

    Ninth is lower calves. (Diamond Shaped Calves)

    You see... the key is... to get more weight out at the end of the limb, thus lower calves, lower thighs, forearms, lower lats, upper pecs and outer dels. The more size you can pack in these

    "unexpected" areas, the more impact your physique makes on the eye. Each of these points when well developed adds something to the physique that's hard to put into words. Matter of fact it's better than words. It's a thing of beauty. And when you get close to achieving it, you know there's a greater hand at work than just yours. You can stand back and admire the beauty of the human body even when it's your own. So...

    Don't Just Pump Iron.... Work On Your Masterpiece

    And here's how to do it.

    Pivot Point # 1 and 2... Side and Rear Deltoids.

    How many times have you heard women say that they like "broad" shoulders on a man? Its because deltoids are one of the most eye catching of all the "Nine Pivot Points". Here's a way to do Standing Side Lateral Raises that makes them so effective you'll be sneaking em in on

    your day off. I haven't mentioned Front Delts even though they are important because they get so much work on everything else. Bench press, dips, overhead press etc. they can get out of proportion. In fact, you have to be careful they don't bully the rest of the shoulder area. Furthermore, it's the side and rear delts that create "manly" look. So it's the side and rear delts we'll focus on.

    First you have to be able to use enough weight to build some size and secondly you've got to make the shoulder "stay in the groove" that forces the side and rear deltoid heads to do all the


    Use A Mirror For This One

    It won't feel natural right at first but once you build up some power, you can "go to town". You want to see the muscles working so wear a tank top. Nothing is more inspiring than seeing your own muscles firing, pumping and growing. Secondly, the key to getting this exercise right is to see the rear deltoids flex in the mirror at the top of the exercise. That's why you should do this with a tank top.

    Okay lets walk through it once. Stand facing the mirror, grasp the dumbbells with the little finger side of the hand pressed hard against the inside plate of the dumbbell. Now the hard part.

    You've got to raise the dumbbells out to the side and just high enough to see the rear deltoids flex in the mirror without flexing the traps. If you flex the traps by lifting the shoulders rather than

    lifting the elbows you're going to build traps. Once the traps get stronger than the deltoids you can kiss a great set of delts goodbye because the traps will do all the work. They start to bully everything and steal all the growth while the deltoids stay the same. Furthermore, over developed traps actually makes your shoulders look narrower.

    The best way to keep from building traps is to cheat just a little at the top of the exercise.

    Let's go through it again. Stand facing the mirror. Bend over slightly at the waist. Hold one dumbbell higher than the other with the thumbs facing the mirror.

    The following is a "two-bob" process. Before you start to raise the dumbbells, "bob" down a little with the upper body to give a slight assist to help start raising the dumbbells. Right at the top of

    the movement... bob the upper body again... to keep the traps out of the picture. You should see the rear deltoids flex in the mirror right at the top. If you don't... you are standing up too straight, using too much front deltoid or raising the dumbbells too high. The dumbbells should go no higher than the shoulders.

    It helps if you think of the dumbbell handles as full of water and right at the top of the exercise you just dump a little water out of the handle. Again, you need to be able to see the rear deltoids flex while watching them in the mirror. Be careful you don't lift the shoulders. Just lift the arms. I know it's tough to get it with just these words but... wait till you get it. You won't be able to keep your eyes off your deltoids.

    I just thought of something I forgot. Use plenty of chalk on your hands. You need a very firm grip on the dumbbells because the key to using more weight on this exercise is the power transfer

    from the forearms to the deltoids.

    Pivot Point # 3... Lower Lats... How To Develop The "Heart" in Your Back.

    Lot's of guys are wide and lots of guys are thick but few have beautifully developed lower lats.

    When you see a back like this... it'll stop you right in your tracks. So how do you get a set of these things? The heart shape comes from focusing on the lower lats which is the hardest area to build. That's why they're so stunning.

    Here's a couple of exercises for creating your own "heart". The first is the one arm lat pull with a pulley about 3 to 5 feet off the floor. Bend over at the waist... with one hand grasp a single handled pulley. Stretch the opposite leg forward... so far you're actually leaning on your

    upper thigh. Then stretch the other leg all the way back so both legs are scissored as much as

    possible. Now twist the hip back away from the line of pull as your arm extends. Then as you pull the handle in next to the hip, twist the hip into the arm. Then back out again twisting the hip away from the line of pull. This "in an out" hip movement puts all the stress right on the lower lat. It's similar to a one arm dumbbell row but with the body in this stretched out position and the hip twisting in and out, it targets the very lowest part of the lat. After you've done 3 to 4 sets with each arm and you're fully pumped you're ready for...

    "Scapula Rotations" The King Of Lower Lat Exercises

    In order to get this exercise correct you need a mirror right in front of a chinning bar so you can see what's going on. It'll help if I tell you the key to catching on to this exercise is to think of doing chins without bending the arms. Quite frankly, it didn't make any sense until I watched him do it.

    He would chalk up, put on chinning straps and with his hands facing away at about shoulder width he would get his palms as far over the bar as possible. Then hanging from the bar he slowly

    raised his rib box as high as he could as if he was trying to touch the chinning bar without bending his arms... all the time keeping his scapula slightly adducted (pulled in), then right at the top of the movement he would suddenly throw his lats forward real hard. When he did this, you

    could see the very bottom of his lats jump right out at you. Then he would hold them... standing out... like the arc of a circle while he slowly lowered his rib box again as far as possible. When he dropped off the bar the bottom of his lats had this funny little pumped shelf under them. You could stick a couple of fingers under this shelf and... lift it up and down. It made you want a set like that so bad it hurt.

    Pivot Point # 4... Upper Pecs

    This is done using a Smith Machine with counter weights if your gym has one. First lay down on the bench... No, wait a minute. Get up for a second. You need to adjust the bar and the bench so it just touches your neck at rest. You need to turn down the hooks so they are hanging free. Next I set the safety stops and if needed put a block under the bench so you can barely get under the bar.

    It may look too low for you to get under it, but all you need to do is turn your head to the side and slide sideways on the bench. The bar has to rest on your Adams Apple. This is important because at the end of each set the stops have to take the weight away from you precisely when you need it. And that's down as low as possible. This super low position will give your upper pecs a pre-stretch they've never felt before. Furthermore you are going to be doing full reps followed by burns to complete failure and I want you to do your burns down in the area of maximum stretch. By having the stops set at the very bottom not only does it give you incredible stretch but, it keeps from having to conserve energy to hang the weight up when you're through with each set. This is important, because the goal at the end of each set is to have nothing left to push the weight up and turn the hooks. I know it sounds picky but, trust me, you'll see what I mean.

    Once you are under the bar, lift your feet up off the floor and just hold them comfortably with your ankles crossed almost like your sitting on a chair but your in a horizontal position. You've got to get the feet off the floor in order to relax the rib cage. With the rib cage relaxed, the lower chest muscles won't have an anchor to pull against. All the work has to be done by the clavicular (upper) pecs even when the going gets tough. I'll explain this more later. Press the bar up now and then, slowly lower the bar, keeping the elbows up at least as high as the shoulders. Lower it all the way down to the neck. You want it to actually touch your neck.

    Now this will be a first for most of you and I can guarantee that you will feel some pain. Remember your stretching your upper pecs like nothing else before. Alright, press the bar and at the same time keep the elbows up as high as possible. Don't drop the elbows. I know it's hard but... keep em up there. Be patient with yourself. Stay in the pain Zone. It's where all the growth is. The bar will come up. Make your upper pecs carry you through the pain zone by keeping your elbows up high. Now. Don't get up." I said. " Now you're ready for the best part. Time to burn out. Drop the bar right down to the neck and just bounce out 6 to 8 reps. Keep the elbows up high. Don't let them come back down towards the chest.

    "Remember what I said about the pain across your palm? The bar does cut across the palms. Kind of pinches the nerve. Let me tell you how to get rid of it. You aren't going to like this but, the problem is not your technique it's your bar. It's too small in diameter. The bar should be 2 inches thick. I usually alleviate this by taking a sponge or small towels and wrapping the bar where your hands will be. Most gyms have sponge tubing to wrap around the bar to aid in comfort when you do squat exercises. You will need them.

  10. #10
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Section V -- Black List: Mail-Order Scams, Companies, and Scumbags!

    Part 1

    Please pay close attention to this section. If we work together we can make rip off artists and scammers a thing of the past. If a potential source wants to advertise his wares on our board,

    he/she will be required to give up their home address, phone number and other pertinent info about themselves. The information that they submit will be verified. This may be a harsh method, and it will drive some source away, but the ones with nothing up their sleeves except to do an honest business will be glad to help us with that info. If these sources turn sour on us, then I will advertise the pertinent info on their whereabouts. I have 2 sources that will be posting on our board that will help us get gear from time to time. They do not want to be advertised and they wish to do their business in a low key manner. They will offer to help any honest buyer out by giving them the oppurtunity to do business. In order to get in contact with them, you will have to be referred by one of their customers that have a good repoire. So watch each others back. The person that you are gracious enough to help out by answering his/her questions, or giving some free advice maybe the one to turn you on to these reliable sources. So on the UNDERGROUND SUPPLEMENTS board, it might pay off nicely to be nice and watch your fellow bodybuilders back!

    Now a list of the more recent scumbags. The above do not post too much and will be easy to spot. To the newest members of our web site, take a good look at the following scumbags. They advertise on the ANABOLIX and ELITE FITNESS boards. They will not be allowed to advertise on our board.

    Rob O - Robert Orlando - "" SCAM ARTIST/RIP

    Bullforce - "" SCAM ARTIST/RIP OFF

    steroid or F.M.- "" Resides in Spain. Extremely slow delivery or no

    delivery! I recently asked for a price list and the guy sent me one. So he still is in business.

    Now maybe using the email address of:

    Babou - "" Busted--Do not send money!

    D.Young - Dewitt Young - Mail troubles to U.S. - Extremely forgetful.

    However, customers that reside outside the U.S report no problems.

    Mr. Musclehead This is the quickest scam Ive seen done. This is the source that made trouble

    for "Hulkster". That trouble is exactly why there will be no advertising of sources on this

    newsletter. You may hear rumors that "Mr. Musclehead" is actually the "Hulkster". These

    rumors are not true. The "Hulkster" gave his endorsement to "Mr. Musclehead" and advertised

    his services. Well, alot of people hold the Hulkster in high regard and trusted this source that the

    Hulkster trusted. Thus, a lot of people sent in their money. Needless to say, they never received

    their goods. This was a huge scam because of the big sum of money that was hustled.


    Comptroller - This is the famed "scanner source". This source will send a scanned image of the

    products he will send you, when he receives your money. However, some customers are

    claiming rip-off. They are not receiving their paid-for goods. Comptroller isnt answering the


    Offline - This is the latest of the scumbags. He is a Canadian source and if you have been

    contacted by him, tell him to get lost. If you did get ripped off by this source, then please

    contact me and I will give you his vital on how you can reach and harrass him.

    Haldun – Need I say more?

    Batman – On the Meso board, the reports are saying that this is a scam.


    This is the "Grey List" . This is a list of sources that are having problems. They are not fully blacklisted. So use at your own discretion. These sources have come through for some of their customers.

    Beach or Beach Boy- Beach is a foreign source that has a web site. He is usually very good about sending his customers their goods. However he does not take steps in disguising his packages so they are apt to be detained by customs. The disturbing thing about this source, is that when a customer has a seizure, this source basically has a I dont care attitude when this happens. Its my opinion that the source must share in the responsibility in getting the gear through customs. Customs may be flagging this source, but that is unconfirmed.

    Underwraps – Been seeing reports of customers not receiving their goods. This person has a web site.


    This list is for sources that are legit but may be having problems with U.S. Customs flagging shipments from them.

    Unfortuneately I have to put up this source. This source is legit and they are doing their business honorably. But due to Customs interference, they are now in this category.

    Powersupplements or Pharmagroup They are extremely legit and an honest pharmacuetical

    company. I have had the fortune in talking to the president of this company and I like him alot. I

    will work with him to see if we can get his shipping methods changed so he can get his quality

    products out to the members of the Underground.

  11. #11
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Section VII-- Counterfeits/Fake Steroids

    Part 1

    Fakes (Useless)

    - Russian Dianabol

    Fakes (Useless)

    - Russian Dianabol

    Fakes (Useless)

    - Russian Dianabol Blister packs have poor quality print (in Russian) and it has "Methanadrolone" and "000.5r" printed on it. The colors used

    for this print is black and blue. The directions that come with

    the tablets, is printed on a green like colored paper.

    - Deca Durabolin From Organon Co. (Greece) Lot#931104-012 Exp. 991128

    100mg/ml, 2ml/vial, 3 vials per box

    - Deca Durabolin From Organon Co. Lot#292698A 200mg/ml, 2ml vial. The vial

    is brownish in color with a blue cap.

    - Sustanon Russian Sustanon "CYCTAHOH 250" The 1cc amp is clear with

    a bright scoring mark around the neck. The label on the amp has

    rounded corners. Lot#252179, Manufacture Date: Mai '95

    Exp. Date: Mai 99.

    - Pronabol-5 India, the fakes come in a plain foil strip on 10 tabs. The real version

    comes in a vacuum packed foil strip with purple writing on it. The tabs

    are marked "P-5"

    Part 2

    Counterfeits (good stuff)

    These are the latest counterfeits floating around. They contain real steroids but sometimes they may be underdosed, or another type of steroid is used instead of the advertised one.

    - Parabolan Negma (France) Parabolan Exp. 08/96

    - Test. Ethanate Steris Labs (USA) 200mg/ml 10cc vial

    - Test. Cypionate Steris Labs (USA) 200mg/ml 10cc vial

    - Test. Propionate Steris Labs (USA) 100mg/ml 10cc vial

    - Test. Suspension Steris Labs (USA) 100mg/ml 30cc vial

    - HCG Steris Labs (USA)

    - Primobolan (Spanish) 100mg/ml contains 50mg Nandralone Phenlypropionate. The blue spot is smaller, the

    score mark is very visual, different plastic tray.

    (The above information was obtained from the Hulksters newsletter)

    Section VI: The Mexican Connection

    No article submitted. Due to writer on vacation

  12. #12
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Section VII: The European Connection

    Several weeks ago I got in touch with Tazzy after some weeks of browsing through some of the boards and just reading posts. Now, after we got to knew each other a little more he took my offer to help in some way and asked me to contribute to the newsletter with some comments and thoughts and maybe some helpful informations about Europe (especially Germany) and gear / the sport itself.

    There might be some lack of English you might recognize due to the fact that I am German but I am sure you will look over it. First of all I wanted to say that Tazzy and several others are doing lots of good work in the background with research, writing, contacting people and establishing ways to let the „underground" become a reliable place to meet, just read, collect infos, share infos and build up some kind of community bb´s (and other sportsmen/women) in the states do urgently need.

    I am saying this because I spent several months in California and had to work some time in Florida. So I partially got to know how things work in the states. I guess we all know that NONE of the amateur or professional results in competitive sports (no matter which one) are achieved by enough sleep, training and proper nutrition ALONE.

    I am saying ALONE because what I recognized is (and hopefully nobody will be offended by it) I recognized that some folks on the boards seem to rely just on high dosages of all kind of gear and expect that to work wonder. A good combination of all the above mentioned items will work wonders with a little less juice or a little less risky stuff! There are too many people around that do claim shit like "stay on the juice all year round and you wont loose what you gained" , when someone asks how to avoid offline loss. Leave that up to the pros who risk their lives with high performance professional sport and who have to live from the sport. Even if you are into competitive bodybuilding you have to use your brain and that is what counts when you want to achieve good results. Some might now say – how does he know... – I know because I have failed two times when preparing for nationwide amateur competition. And every time I have been at the point where the doc said if you want to go on and compete I can prescribe you this and that to avoid this or that but maybe it wont work out but than we can change the method of treatment.

    Luckily I wasn’t addicted enough to the idea of risking everything for competing and quit preparation and I wont try it again. Some guys / girls respond good on everything and some get problems with little dosages – I just had to admit that I wouldn’t make it to THE BIG MAN.

    Next thing is I have been working out for a long time in the gym where Andreas Muentzer worked out, almost lived and finally prepared his slow way of going down. He was cycling next to me a couple of days before he died from internal bleeding. Some of you might know him as he was the German guy who always tried to get into the top five at the Mister "O".

    He always knew what he was risking but he had no choice due to contracts with video and fitness companies who wanted him to stay cut and ripped all year round. That was the reason for causing psychic pressure and making him always go several steps over the edge.

    Thats not worth it in my opinion. Germany would be paradise for some of you as you can easilly find a doctor whom you can talk to about everything. Some of them might give you prescription for medications (personal use).

    I know people who have contacts at pharmacies (drugstores) who get their things in smaller quantities over the counter but under the hand. This is what lots of you might miss as I have seen the ways some guys and girls at the gyms in the states have to go to purchase their things. I have seen people buying injectables without even knowing anything about the real content as it could have been brewed in some motel room in Mexico!

    There are so many fakes and counterfeits around in the sates and this gets all of you in a bad starting position. This is why so many assholes are able (and will always be) to rip people off and scam big time. Because lots of you do not have any other options than trusting someone they shouldn’t trust at all.

    The fact that the usage or trafficking of AS is damned and banned in the US, is ridiculous and a big shame. The fact that there is a chance of going to jail for even the use of juice or trading small amounts is really scary. Everybody should have a free choice of what to do with his body in case he/she does not harm anyone with it. Why don’t they put drunks or long-term smokers into jail? They are not doing any different and maybe harming themselves alot more than we could ever do.

    It is much better here – if you need real info, you can get it; if you need treatment for anything that was caused by AS, there are easy ways to get professional help.

    In Germany, there are much less fakes available as there are in the states. But the whole scene changed within the last three years in my opinion. A lot of medications were taken off the market as the officials of the pharmaceutical companies did not see any more reasons to produce some things for their real purpose, knowing that they are abused for the enhancing aspect in sport. So we do not have lots of domestic products available but it is much easier to seperate the fake from the real things this way. But the companies who are all aware of the other purposes of using their products do not only react that way. I know two semi-professionals who stay in touch with big German brands, reporting what they experience while experimenting around with their drugs. And believe me, they have ways to compensate those volunteers!

    (much better than mice)

    Some weeks ago I made a phone call to GENEPHARM /Greece to find out if there was a change in their production of Extraboline which is very popular here in Germany. (by the way, there was one!) While talking to that person she explained to me that they are very well aware of the abuse of their product and told me that they would discontinue it if there wasn’t such a big market for them. A year ago, she would have been able to send me large quantities of their product directly to me as if being a official buyer. But they have had some changes in their law of competitive export-marketing. – So unfortunately we couldn’t establish anything that way.....

    Athletes who spend their free time with bb are more aware of everything around steroids in the meantime. Since the death of the biggest German BB there was so much in the media – confusion but also serious reporting. People do not buy the cheap shit any more – they want their goods in the original packaging and stick to their reliable sources. They wont take that much as they did some years ago. Personally I do not know ANYBODY who uses Human Growth Hormone but I have seen so many posts about people who intend to use it or already do use them without knowing anything about it.

    About that I can only say one thing: Just imagine where this hormone comes from and how it is derived. The countries where it usually comes from are mostly those that do not even know things like safe and sterile methods of production. Just picture it for yourself and make a decision. It is very much clear to me that HGH is much cheaper than synthetic GH but if you already came to the decision to take GH then choose the synthetic one and pay a little more. Your health should be worth it for yourself. And btw. being huge and muscular in combination with Jakob Creutzfeld is not very cool, I guess. This is what happened here in the last times – people wont buy HGH anymore as there is so much SGH available here – domestic, which is expensive and from eastern countries which is little cheaper but sometimes under dosed. I always wonder how some people on the boards are able to do mail-order and shipment of SGH as the dry substance of it should not be kept outside the cooler for more than 24 hours to avoid loss of effectiveness.

    Inside the states it should work when kept in cooler-boxes which you might be able to purchase from medical suppliers but foreign order – I doubt the effectiveness of it.....

    There is no doubt that most of the top amateurs or semi-pros in Germany are using sgh because the competition is getting harder and harder. Someone using GH in combination with the good, equivalent amount of high anabolic roids (which is so much necessary to grant good results of the gh) does not need to go on such a heavy diet like another who does not use it and comes harder with even more mass. (due to the higher carb intake until the competition)

    But the whole scene is changing here in Germany. There are not many gyms left that run on the hardgainers thing. Everybody is marketing the fitness and in-shape thing. Since the death of A. Muentzer, officials have a big eye on the whole scene. At first they did a bad job with it because the special agents did not know anything about roids and their use or abuse. But this changed – so some big gyms who have a big name in the scene had to care about their reputation – they did that by banning their big guys from the gym and those that got banned, found it very hard to find places to work out. That is a bad progress for that sport.

    But one thing concerning police investigations is much better than in the states:

    They watch out for the big assholes producing fakes and marketing them the big way. So it happened last year that one of the biggest rings with a real company, buildings, production machines and everything was closed down, several were arrested and are still in jail. It was one of the most famous sources for fake d-bol looking super-perfect and also primo-s tabs. I am sure that there are still many d-bol fakes around, and they made their way to the US!

    Since then, those folks are watched carefully as the government knows that these assholes not only make illegal profits from fakes, but can do a lot of harm to newbie buyers.

    But there wont be anything bad happening to you in case you get in a police-control and they find gear which you can declare as personal use. In case they catch you buying or selling - you already have to be a bigger fish as there should already be need for them to watch you – you have to come with them and get a small trial in court and have to pay a penalty but not for breaking laws that are made for medications but for breaking tax-laws. This of course is different to the amphetamine-thing like ephedrine or heavy things like real drugs.

    I consider the board, the web and the newsletter as very good sources for collecting enough info to see what steroid to take for what purpose. If you have questions about anything in common or special, you can contact me and I will see if I can answer them. When it comes to roids, one thing I found out is that lots of people on the boards or on the net from the US do underestimate one special thing: WinstrolDepot – this is so popular in Germany and used by so many bb´s - not only track and field athletes as some of you might say. It is used for bulking as well as for cutting and I had so many discussions with guys who claimed that WinstrolDepot does not have its place in bb as other roids do.

    First of all, everybody responds differently on the different types of gear. Some can gain size with cable-exercises where others might say you need to bench and use free weights. But this water-based roid is much more than Ben Johnson´s favorite! Vebonol (boldenone undecanoate) was a very popular veterinary steroid for contest preparation until it was taken off the market several months ago. As a substitute for that some use Masteron but it is not as popular as Vebonol was.

    So when it comes to contest preparation primobolanS (acetate) is very common but unfortunately very expensive. In combination with testosterone propionate it may be taken right until contest day. The same with Winstrol Tablets. But to get good results from these roids, you really have to eat them big time and so it is a very expensive solution.

    For bulking it is quite similar to what is used in the US. An all time favorite--D-bol but, only the real pink thai d-bol tabs. They are not very expensive here so you can always choose them instead of eastern-subtitutes like Russian methandrostenolonum where purity is never granted. I knew a guy from Russia who was a doc in the military and a amateur boxer. He said they all take the "mets" though they know that the manufacturer did (or maybe still do ) take the leftovers with old exp. dates, crush them and reuse them for producing new ones. I have seen guys with faces like cakes from those and the acne they got could never be cured. Some folks still do not know that there is no more Nerobol from Galenika / Gedeon Richter available any more. They quit making them several years ago when fusing with the new form of company. There are still super-good fakes around of the former Parabolan from Negma/France. They look perfect, but the ones around here in Germany do not contain anything similar to trenbolone – maybe it is the same thing with the parabolan I still hear about when talking to some US citizens. They were produced from the same scammer-ring I just mentioned before and they were operating internationally.

    For a long time we had those super-perfect looking anapolon50 from Syntex-UK available and almost every second package of those were fake and had no active ingredients.

    So when it comes to oxymetholone (which is very popular for bulking here in Germany) the turkish version from Ibrahim is used. In the meantime there are more and more addresses where the brand new Genepharm/Greece Oxybolone (also oxymetholone) is available and athletes report that half of the dosage than with other oxys brings the same results. So they seem to be highly effective. Sustanon is not as popular in Germany as it seems to be in the US. Sometimes there are the NILE/Egypt Sustas available here. Every time I have seen ones that do look right and similar to all the pictures that can be found on the net, I also recognized that the amps have different heights – some have longer necks than others but they seem to be effective and do come in the original packaging. But almost everybody trusts the regular 250mg Tests (Testoviron / Enanthate) more than Sustas. There are no German 250mg available any more so most of those do come from Spain or Belgium.

    A very expensive but highly effective alternative used by German athletes is the Test Heptylate (Theramex / France) but they are hard to get. The availability factor grants that there are almost no fakes around of this product. The best thing to do to avoid fakes is to always be sure to ask for the complete packing of the roids. I would rather invest some dollars more on manufacturer-packed goods than getting loose amps in cheaper versions. I always ensure that I get my things or things I send in original packing. Of course this is not always possible due to large quantities of amps and tabs being send some unknown way to keep size as small as possible but e.g. when it comes to d-bol there are so many ways to get real originally packed cans with foil and everything (though they do come their way from Thailand) that you definitely do not have to buy pink tabs in some kind of plastic bag ! With literature it seems to be the same situation as in the states: the newest books available are form 1996 which is ridiculous as there have been tremendous changes since then. But as I heard and was told by Tazzy there will be a good substitute available next year – which will definitely mean a lot of hard work for Tazzy and people who help him.

    My advice to everyone in the states (or maybe Canada and Australia and other countries also) – if I am in the position to give advice ?! – is :

    Organize yourself – i mean keep up the internet community and let it grow

    Build up some kind of knowledge bases where everyone gives his / her input about what he/she experiences with the tons of fake shit around in the states – send in pictures or show them on the boards. Be ignorant to ignorant board visitors – just ignore them and dont make up big discussions and waste of space about nothing. Take time to read to differenterate people who want to help and share real knowledge from those who just blow hot air.

    Be more tolerant to ones who do not WANT to be mass monsters – just because they decided to not juice the heavy way does not mean that they don’t work their asses off in the gym.

    I do not know any special tips and tricks for you how to avoid being scammed but I think the people behind the boards are already doing quite well with selecting good or bad sources.

    I hope this was a little interesting for you to read and you could use some of the information for yourself. If you have any special questions or maybe inquiries you can contact me and i will try to see what can be done for you....

  13. #13
    Senior Member K1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts

    Section VIII: Newbie Letters to the Editors:

    I was asked by a person that is new to the use of supplements to include this type of section to the newsletter. Hopefully this will answer some questions that will help the newbie obtain their goals in a safe manner.

    Q: Hey what's up? Anyway, question: What is the difference between deca-norma &amp; deca-organon? Thanks

    A: Two different pharmacuetical companies for one. Organon is a world wide pharmacuetical company. They have labs in France, England, India, Mexico and other European countries whereas Norma is a German or England based company. Norma’s are also known as Norma Hellas, which is deca in a small 2 ml vial. The vial is clear glass with a brushed silver top. The label is blue and white. Each ml of oil contains 100mg of nandralone. So 2ml has 200mg of nandralone. Organon comes in amps, vials and redi-jects. Organon is not as popular for 2 reasons. One, they are faked a lot. Two, if you get real Organon product, it is usually made in 50mg of nandralone per ml. That makes for very voluminous injections since you need 2mg of Nandralone per pound of bodyweight to get an effective dose. There are some 100mg per ml but like I said it is faked alot. If you ever see 200mg/ml organon deca, you really have to know your source because of the many fakes..

    This column will be a permanent section in the newsletter. Send your questions in to me, you should know

    my address. The only stupid questions are the unasked ones.

    "The information provided in conversation is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as an endorsement or recommendation for any illegal activity."

    Send mail to with questions or comments about this web site.
    Copyright © 1998, 1999 Underground Supplements
    Last modified: November 19, 1999

    Bookmark This Page:


    Copyright © 1995-2000. UG Supplements ® All rights reserved.

Similar Threads

  1. Undergroundsupplements Newsletter Issue #8
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-28-2012, 11:09 PM
  2. Undergroundsupplements Newsletter Issue #11
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-28-2012, 10:44 PM
  3. Undergroundsupplements Newsletter Issue #12
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-28-2012, 10:33 PM
  4. Undergroundsupplements Newsletter Issue #13
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-28-2012, 10:30 PM
  5. Undergroundsupplements Newsletter Issue #14
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-28-2012, 10:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts