2 grams of testosterone

losieloos

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First you talk shit about orals now you're talking shit about tren? Hulk all that test is cutting the air circulation of oxygen to your brain. Go donate some blood.
 

JAXNY

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I don't have much to add other than do the math people. How can you advise against 2g of test, yet run 1g of test and 600deca with 350mg of an oral each week. Still 2g of aas. Test is the safest compound we can run so take advantage of that shit an appreciate the power of test.
If your goals require other benefits such as collagen synthesis than yes, run your deca or eq but if this is not needed, than I believe the compounds aren't necessary.
KISS is a very true statement.
Test and orals for me for a while. Maybe...depends on my joints. They suck ass...so I may need some deca in my near future. We will see.




Oh and TBOLLLLLLLLLLL!

Sorry FRANK test is not the safest compound. Deca has far less sides. The debate on why not run 2 grams of test but run 2 grams of combined compounds is that many believe 2 grams of test isn't any more beneficial than 1 gram. So why over tax your body for nothing. 2 grams of 2 or 3 compounds you will at least get some benefits from.
 

Get Some

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I will tell you this-

Tren decreases protein synthesis. It also decreases PROTEIN DEGRADATION. It decreases degradation so much more that YOU END UP WITH A HIGH NET PROTEIN ACCRETION.

Test increases protein synthesis AND degradation. Test has a higher rate of synthesis vs degradation, THUS YOU END UP WITH HIGH NET PROTEIN ACCRETION.

Thus, tren and test can be synergistic-tren will lower the increased degradation; test will increased the lowered synthesis rate.

There is a very important reason why tren decreases proteolysis... that's why fina is used by cattle farmers to fatten up their stock with less feed. By decreasing the net reaction to protease by limiting the amount of available ligands to pair with active molecules, the digestion is slower and limits the amount of food you have to eat (because more of it is used than wasted). Tren is the perfect cutting drug because you won't feel nearly as hungry in a calorie deficient environment and you can actually gain muscle in this state if you play your cards right and don't over train.
 

hulksmash

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First you talk shit about orals now you're talking shit about tren? Hulk all that test is cutting the air circulation of oxygen to your brain. Go donate some blood.

The hell? I didn't bash tren?!

I said how test and tren could be synergistic!

Wtf?
 

JAXNY

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you weren't impressed? Its obvious the drol back then isn't as potent as the drol today. I LOVE ANADROL.

You have me lost on your comment losieloos. Maybe I didn't state it correctly. There was no anadrol better than anadrol by syntex. That was a legit lab. The original.
The stuff was very strong. My gains were huge on only 50mg. Stregnth ridiculous. You gain water very easy with anadrol and it's toxic on the liver. You didn't need more than 50mg. Like I said I may of heard of a guy or 2 daring to take 100mg. as a matter of fact I remember now a buddy of mine did take a 100mg of the syntax. Not for very long though as he started getting nose bleeds and severe headaches. 150mg I can't imagine. But if you guys are running 150mg as PB said then it tells me that the UG gear isn't as potent and maybe the reason why you guys are running your dosages so high. So no I wasn't impressed with the UG anadrol I tried. I'm sure there is probably better out there. Ots UG. You never know exactly what you are getting.
 
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hulksmash

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I was speaking strictly about getting ripped here, not big.... pros come off test completely pre-contest because it limits them from reaching sub 5% bodyfat. Also, I never mentioned more than 2 compounds in any of my examples. I just don't think you need to run more than a gram of test unless you have 50+ lbs to gain or if you feel you are 50+ lbs above your genentic limitations and are looking to keep that size. Maybe you are looking to get much larger than you are, and if that is the case then I'd say you are on the right track. You've done well to get where you are now judging by the avi, but a lot of guys could do that naturally. Whatever floats your boat is cool with me, I'm just saying for me personally if I was going to run that much test I'd like to see more results or have a clear plan for what I was going after.

You can gain a keepable 20 lbs every 4 weeks if you run the right orals and eat 6,000+ cals a day, I know because I've done it. It's all about how you eat/train/sleep during PCT or cruise. For those that blast all day every day there is no such thing as losing gains unless you get lazy with your diet.

Yea, I'm on the right track. I want to be much larger than I believe everyone assumes.

Guys couldn't reach my size naturally while this lean. They could reach the size but have way more bodyfat.

Let's not get into that debate, however (you know get some that would **** up the thread :p)

I have a clear plan and goal. I haven't stopped getting results, either. Size was limited due to 1 meal a day.

Life is great now, and I'm eating several meals a day! Now I'll be much larger.
 

losieloos

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Hulksmash is the ian McCarthy of steroids.
 

JAXNY

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I know that already! Doc you know what I'm saying.

They are WEAKER results wise.

Why? Time limitation.

Run orals as long as you could injectables and they would be "stronger".

I'm only taking about results-the only thing that matters.

Hulk please tell me I'm not understanding you correctly that you do not know the answer to your question of" why? Time limitations on orals" ,,,,is that what you are asking?
Orals are very toxic on the liver especially halo. That is why you don't do them for more than 4 to 6 weeks. Some other You can go a bit longer. Depends on the oral.
 

hulksmash

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Hulk please tell me I'm not understanding you correctly that you do not know the answer to your question of" why? Time limitations on orals" ,,,,is that what you are asking?
Orals are very toxic on the liver especially halo. That is why you don't do them for more than 4 to 6 weeks. Some other You can go a bit longer. Depends on the oral.

No, I was answering "why" to:

If someone asked "why?" When I said orals are weaker result wise.

They are weaker in results due to their duration limits.
 

hulksmash

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Hulksmash is the ian McCarthy of steroids.

No..I just could not understand how the hell you thought I was bashing tren..

There isn't even any negative words concerning tren in that post..
 

losieloos

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Lol no just in general hulk lolol you're just like him
 

DocDePanda187123

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Synergistic effects mean that when two or more compounds are combined, they're combined effect is greater than each of their individual effects combined. It doesn't necessarily just mean they work well together. They must work better together than each alone combined.
 

JAXNY

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Here is my 02 regarding this remark. I'm not saying i'm correct, just my ASSesment. Opinions are gonna vary but I feel that the combination of two to three compounds in moderate doses is much more effective and also guarantees a longer duration of effect than when only one compound is taken in a higher dosage.

With the correct combinations one will be able to obtain a synergetic effect if one properly plans selecting compounds that have different influences on the factors of strength, tissue growth, and recovery.

Synergy, which implies that two or more compounds are being used together will often compliment each other, providing a greater muscle gain than if used alone in higher doses.


Of course there is a negative side too. With each compound added the liver has to work harder to to metabolize it and remove it from your body.
And you would be correct seeker. Just my 2 cents also. That's 4 cents. Think that makes good sense LOL
 

Joliver

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Here is my 02 regarding this remark. I'm not saying i'm correct, just my ASSesment. Opinions are gonna vary but I feel that the combination of two to three compounds in moderate doses is much more effective and also guarantees a longer duration of effect than when only one compound is taken in a higher dosage.

With the correct combinations one will be able to obtain a synergetic effect if one properly plans selecting compounds that have different influences on the factors of strength, tissue growth, and recovery.

Synergy, which implies that two or more compounds are being used together will often compliment each other, providing a greater muscle gain than if used alone in higher doses.


Of course there is a negative side too. With each compound added the liver has to work harder to to metabolize it and remove it from your body.

I can agree to the "synergistic" comment with the caveat that the drugs in question act in different pathways (AR and non-AR mediated). I would rather take test only vs. 2 drugs that worked primarily via the AR mediated pathway. KISS--Keep It Simple for Seeker. LOL....i am hilarious. Simply hilarious.

But, for my purposes in powerlifting, protein synthesis isn't always what i am looking toward, so I am test biased with other compounds thrown in for collagen support.



Oral AAS hepatotoxicity is grossly overstated in most accounts. The liver is the best self-regenerating organ in your body, even better than your skin! There are plenty of studies around showing patients running Anadrol at a dose exceeding 150mg daily for an entire YEAR! Their liver values came back elevated, but not life-threatening. Now if you can imagine only running it for 6 weeks max rather than a year you can understand what I'm trying to say here.


The hepatotoxicity shouldn't be underestimated. There is a reason that there are people waiting in line for a liver transplant. I dont really like using the studies on pubmed because those people are not necessarily healthy and arent comparable to athletes. I will ride on my personal experience in saying that I have seen a lot of guys living on drol turn yellow and get glassy eyed. It is also possible to block the chemical cascade that calls for liver regeneration. Insulin plays an important role in that process. HGH administration combined with heavy oral usage can be problematic because the potential insulin insensitivity associated with the HGH could essentially block the processes that repair the liver. In fact, any AAS that decreases insulin sensitivity can inhibit liver repair.
 

Get Some

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This tread has evolved into much more than I ever thought possible lol

I hate to have to keep coming back to this to dispute what has been said and layout the correct knowledge... makes me look like the bad guy ;)

So I'll leave you with this....

1+ gram of test a week is a great way to get huge if you are eating enough. Throwing in some deca will ONLY help, but yes it will be much harder on your heart and HPTA in the future.

Running a low dose of test when cutting is highly beneficial because it reduces the amount of e2 you will encounter. NO matter what AI you run, you will always have some aromatization... unless of course you are running letro non-stop, which I do not recommend at all.

Most people will never need to run more than 600-750mg of test to achieve their desired size and shape. Some people will need to run more than a gram because they don't respond as well. My body responds to 600mg of test like most people respond to a gram. However, I also experience more side effects at a lower dose than most... so it's a love/hate relationship.

For bulking give me 450/450 of test/deca all day with an oral and for cutting I'll take 100/500 of test/tren to hit the sweet spot. It is much easier to cut up with less exogenous test. You will also run into more problems with prolactin if you run more test with tren because the when e2 levels are high, it creates the perfect environment for prolactin issues.
 

hulksmash

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I would rather take test only vs. 2 drugs that worked primarily via the AR mediated pathway. KISS






The hepatotoxicity shouldn't be underestimated. There is a reason that there are people waiting in line for a liver transplant. I dont really like using the studies on pubmed because those people are not necessarily healthy and arent comparable to athletes. I will ride on my personal experience in saying that I have seen a lot of guys living on drol turn yellow and get glassy eyed. It is also possible to block the chemical cascade that calls for liver regeneration. Insulin plays an important role in that process. HGH administration combined with heavy oral usage can be problematic because the potential insulin insensitivity associated with the HGH could essentially block the processes that repair the liver. In fact, any AAS that decreases insulin sensitivity can inhibit liver repair.

I agree on the liver bit.

I can also agree with the first statement..but I'm sticking with just test now.

I love kicking the forum alive with my posts/threads..5 pages now!
 

Joliver

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Sorry FRANK test is not the safest compound. Deca has far less sides. The debate on why not run 2 grams of test but run 2 grams of combined compounds is that many believe 2 grams of test isn't any more beneficial than 1 gram. So why over tax your body for nothing. 2 grams of 2 or 3 compounds you will at least get some benefits from.

I dont think that Frank was speaking to test being the "absolute" safest, but from a relative safety standpoint. I am assuming this because we have had this convo several times. Deca is safer from a health standpoint, but from a recovery standpoint, deca is one of the worst. In fact, when test failed to achieve full depression of spermatogenesis in male birth control trials, progestins were added for their well known ability to suppress the process. The only problem was that the process wasn't as "reversible" as was hoped. So from a standalone point of view, few options exist outside of test that will allow for normal life function (specifically libido issues) and can still achieve the athletes goals.
 

Joliver

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I agree on the liver bit.

I can also agree with the first statement..but I'm sticking with just test now.

I love kicking the forum alive with my posts/threads..5 pages now!

Hulk, I am on the test train myself. It is simple and effective. In most cases, the sides are easily controllable. I agree with your logic.


I actually started a "increase the test" shit storm the other day. Fun times.
 

Get Some

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Androgens in general do not contribute to increased insulin sensitivity directly. This is why a lot of guys looking to get huge supplement with insulin itself. These people that turned yellow were on drol for 6 weeks or less? There has to be some other underlying factor there. Alcohol is far more the culprit in most of these cases. One drink of alcohol is pretty toxic to the liver and it takes full blown alcoholism before you need a liver transplant in most cases. You will likely end up with terrible stomach ulcers before you ever need to think about your liver being shot.

I don't like that you brought HGH into the question to bolster your argument because we weren't talking about HGH. But in that case you would be correct. There is more danger in abusing HGH vs AAS all day long and I don't recommend HGH for anyone who doesn't compete.

Contrary to what most people think, collagen synthesis is actually HINDERED when exogenous testosterone is being used. Winstrol has a more pronounced effect on collagen synthesis than test. So, when looking to supplement for the added benefit of increases collagen synthesis, Deca and anavar are your best choices.

I can agree to the "synergistic" comment with the caveat that the drugs in question act in different pathways (AR and non-AR mediated). I would rather take test only vs. 2 drugs that worked primarily via the AR mediated pathway. KISS--Keep It Simple for Seeker. LOL....i am hilarious. Simply hilarious.

But, for my purposes in powerlifting, protein synthesis isn't always what i am looking toward, so I am test biased with other compounds thrown in for collagen support.






The hepatotoxicity shouldn't be underestimated. There is a reason that there are people waiting in line for a liver transplant. I dont really like using the studies on pubmed because those people are not necessarily healthy and arent comparable to athletes. I will ride on my personal experience in saying that I have seen a lot of guys living on drol turn yellow and get glassy eyed. It is also possible to block the chemical cascade that calls for liver regeneration. Insulin plays an important role in that process. HGH administration combined with heavy oral usage can be problematic because the potential insulin insensitivity associated with the HGH could essentially block the processes that repair the liver. In fact, any AAS that decreases insulin sensitivity can inhibit liver repair.
 

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