NEW to DNP (but with Experienced Trainer)...

[mr_prithy]

Hi all-
New to the forum, you all seem really cool and informative, so I thought I'd start to lay some groundwork here (as I'm embarking on my own training journey and will surely be looking for guidance/advice as I go)…
I'm 33, 5'10", 215, and I have a trainer (non-pro, but in great shape and seemingly knowledgable in many areas of fitness)…I've been asking and asking about DNP and he's told me the ups and downs of it all (he's trained with and without, so he's no purist to ANY method and he's letting me sort of pick my own direction (I'm stubborn and he knows me all too well I guess!). Anyway, as we try to actually secure the necessary materials to start my training, I figured I'd use the time (who knows how long it's gonna be, after all) to see if anyone has any advice as far as my particular situation. Which is…
Contrary to my stats, I'm actually a fairly avid runner, but I also sit at a desk for the majority of my work. SO, when I let things slide, I get to where I am now, which is dragging my self to the track by my house once or twice a week to pull myself around for a 2-mile run. At my BEST, however, I am running 5 times a week, 3.5 miles a clip, eating small meals 5-6 times a day, totaling around 1500 calories. I'm not a nutritionist by any stretch, and I don't balance my nutritional intake very well at all, so even with these constraints, I've never weighed less than 190 on a 5'10" frame (though it must be said that I am verrrrry thick in the limbs from years and years of sports and drumming, so I'm one of those guys whose weight is pretty deceiving…I'd say when I'm at my leanest (at 190), you might guess I'm 175). My goals with this new regiment is that I just wanna look and feel good…I'm not looking to bulk up, I'm looking to slim down as much as I can and maybe add some definition (as my trainer is outlining a weights regiment that will supposedly help with this)…I guess the easiest way to describe my goal is to "look good on the beach." So my initial questions are…
As I try to secure the necessary materials, are there any different types of DNP ingestion/amounts/frequencies that anyone might suggest for a guy my size/age/goals? I know I sound super green, but rest assured that I do have my trainer and he's going to oversee everything I do. I've always shied away from any types of substances (even supplements, but mostly because I've always had a problem adhering to the diet of it all), but after reading extensively through many forums, it just seems that DNP, like most other things you put into your body, is helpful if used correctly, and I'm ready to stop this cycle of pushing and pulling my exercise lifestlye…I really wanna stick with something that gives me results. Thanks for reading this (super-long) intro, and I appreciate any help/opinions/info!
-MP

 

[nightster]

I can't help with the DMP answer, but nice intro, and welcome! Im guessing you've read the sticky in the DMP section? If not there is plenty of info there.

 

[mr_prithy]

Hey! Thanks for the welcome…Yes, I have read the sticky and it was super informative! I've been poking around this forum for a little while now, it's great to get a bunch of different POVs. Thanks again!
-MP

 

[TheLupinator]

You know DNP makes you feel like complete shit right? and that your performance, whether running or lifting, will be excessively diminished?


If you are trying to get fit and just "look good at the beach" why not fix your diet? You said it yourself, your nutritional intake is not well balanced. I suggest you post your current regimen so we can make some small basic tweaks that will get you headed in the right direction in no time.


As for lifting - stick to the basic barbell lifts (squats, deadlifts, rows, bench, & over-head press) with some body weight exercises (pullups, dips, abs)


You already have cardio in place so just keep up with that

 

[NbleSavage]

Agree with Lupi. DNP will wreak havoc with your running regimen and your motivation towards the new weight program. You'll feel like doing nothing more than lying naked on the floor in a pool of your own sweat battling cake batter cravings with a fan pointed at your head and nuts.

Tighten-up the diet as part of your new weight training program instead of adding DNP.

Welcome to UGB!

Peace,

- Savage

 

[mr_prithy]

HA!
You, my friend, have just described my last three Sundays.
In all seriousness, thank you both for your two cents, I'm certainly taking what you've said into account. The thing with my current plan is that I'm trying hard to get back to where I was a year ago..and that's something I was able to do while working from home and controlling my meal times/potions and exercise routines very strictly. Now I'm working all the way across town and the shifts change all the time, so the plan is to just try to get myself back a little faster and then work on the lifestyle shift it takes to maintain where I'm at. I'm always more motivated to stay in shape once i AM in shape (duh), and my job is kicking my ass for the foreseeable future, so I'm just trying to get over the hump. And if that means EXTRA cake batter cravings and a new nut fan, then so be it! (Just kidding…taking everything you've said into account…also taking into account the various qualities of DNP and whether or not I even have access to what I'd really even conceivably ingest…) Thanks, all!
-MP

 

[vineary2242]

DNP is best used at a lower amount over a longer time in my opinion. I'd take T3 with it to help as if you don't take T3 your results will be hindered. It is not really about the lethargy it is about getting the right chemicals in you to make the biggest bang for the buck. Take Vit E and C in heavy dose and a good multi vitamin. Keep your diet probably at 2000 if you are running or maybe even 1500. I'd have to know more about your bodyfat and others to give you better opinion. Keep a Benedryl handy when you are on DNP as a few guys get skin rashes and if you do get on the anti allergen or benedryl ASAP and stop DNP. If you are on one pill a day I prefer to take mine at night. Aim a fan at your head while you sleep. Don't be afraid to throw some carbs at your cravings but understand the more carbs you have the more sweat you will produce. Saying that you do want to throw carbs at your diet to jump the furnace so to speak and ignite the metabolism somewhat. Just don't go heavy on carbs or you diminish the usefulness of the DNP.

DNP will make you tired and sweat and you will have burst strength (or I and others do) but you won't have stamina or endurance. I do Triathlons and forget about running, swimming, biking. However a swim is nice to cool off just not any competitive pace or I'd drown.

I wish I could PM but I'm more a surfer around issues not a poster as I see DNP used mostly for weight loss not for cutting / competitive cycles. So.. if you want to issue more personal info and I can try to add here more comments but don't want to be a twat and just give shit onto your thread.

 

[TheLupinator]

I wouldn't use T3 without some kind of anabolic, especially in calorie deficit. I've read DNP inhibits T4's conversion to T3, but have yet to see any actual evidence of this. DNP cycles are usually 3 weeks max anyways, so any effect on T3 would be short lived.

 

[vineary2242]

I wouldn't use T3 without some kind of anabolic, especially in calorie deficit. I've read DNP inhibits T4's conversion to T3, but have yet to see any actual evidence of this. DNP cycles are usually 3 weeks max anyways, so any effect on T3 would be short lived.

You said you hadn't seen evidence yet so did you see this report before? I believe it will give you some basis for the comments that DNP inhibits T4 conversion.

"...To investigate mechanisms of extrathyroidal thyroid hormone metabolism, conversion of thyroxine (T4) to 3,5,3?-triiodothyronine (T3) and degradation of 3,3?,5?-triiodothyronine (rT3) were studied in rat liver homogenates. Both reactions were enzymatic. For conversion of T4 to T3, the Km of T4 was 7.7 ?M, and the Vmax was 0.13 pmol T3/min per mg protein. For rT3 degradation, the Km of rT3 was 7.5 nM, and the Vmax was 0.36 pmol rT3/min per mg protein. Production of rT3 or degradation of T4 or T3 was not detected under the conditions employed. rT3 was a potent competitive inhibitor of T4 to T3 conversion with a Ki of 4.5 nM; 3,3?-diiodothyronine was a less potent inhibitor of this reaction. T4 was a competitive inhibitor of rT3 degradation with a Ki of 10.2 ?M. Agents which inhibited both reactions included propylthiouracil, which appeared to be an allosteric inhibitor, 2,4-dinitrophenol, and iopanoic acid. Sodium diatrizoate had a weak inhibitory effect. No inhibition was found with ?-methylparatyrosine, Fe+2, Fe+3, reduced glutathione, ?-hydroxybutyrate, or oleic acid."

Specifically states that 2,4-Dinitrophenol inhibits T4 conversion to T3

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC372557/


For the short cycles (7 days or such) I still think you need T3, Your thyroid will recover in 2-3 weeks after stopping DNP and during that time your body can't manufacture it's own T3 until all the DNP is cleared. So T3 helps you keep losing weight for longer.

Not only during cycle effects and benefits, but post cycle also by using T3 is my understanding.

 

[TheLupinator]

For the short cycles (7 days or such) I still think you need T3, Your thyroid will recover in 2-3 weeks after stopping DNP and during that time your body can't manufacture it's own T3 until all the DNP is cleared. So T3 helps you keep losing weight for longer.

Lets forget that study is done in rats and we are talking about humans aimed at losing fat... You realize taking exogenous T3 will also lower your endogenous T3? And you should absolutely not need T3 or any other hormone / supplement to aid in fat loss while on DNP - Lastly without anabolics and during a calorie deficit T3 is catabolic. If you don't mind losing some muscle in exchange for some fat loss from a couple of weeks of T3 use, which will pale in comparison to the fat loss from DNP, go right ahead.

 

[vineary2242]

that's fine mate just sharing some info I thought you might not have seen. DNP is a wild open subject to folks and everyone has their beliefs. Since the 1930's there very little firm studies in DNP. From my research and looking into it, and my own personal use I think T3 should be used. If you google the subject a lot of bro science running around as to why you should, and should not use it.

We've both presented different opinions to the OP and he can make up his own mind since it's his body he's dealing with.

 

[vineary2242]

I guess one point should be made here that I didn't indicate earlier. If you look at my gallery in the profile... I'm the king of fat fuc$ers. Lost over 200 lbs of fat / lard / etc...

I've looked at a lot of weight loss items and of course Nutrition is the King and ultimately the only answer but I've spent a lot of time working with various items. So my comments come from my own trial and error on my own body, and a lot of items I believe I learned the hard way by harming myself and doing things wrong. I don't claim anything I say to be the best answer or only answer, it's just what I found to work best for me. I'm surely not the smartest guy around and not claiming that. Just trying to help folks not make mistakes I think I made.

 

[mr_prithy]

Hey!
I appreciate all the great info and personal experience stuff…that's exactly why I signed up here. We all have different situations and physiques, so it's always gonna be subjective info/advice, but I tend to take something away from every single post I read. Nighttime does sound like a good idea, especially in the beginning so I can be in a controlled environment with people I'm comfortable with and such. I'm going to read all of these again when I'm not at work and can really dig in…thanks again, fellas!
-MP

 

[Kembro]

This is the ONE THING I don't have any knowledge on but have always wanted to try....I can't share personal experience here but I will be watching this closely!!

 

[jg210302]

This is the ONE THING I don't have any knowledge on but have always wanted to try....I can't share personal experience here but I will be watching this closely!!

I agree and that is why I am reading up as much as possible... I am slowly losing weight but also have a desk job and really want to get the ball rolling a little quicker... Thanks for all of the info guys...

 

[PillarofBalance]

I'm not reading the whole thread. But you keep referring to DNP as having something to do with training. I think you are misunderstanding the compound. It's not ephedrine. You will want to sit on the couch and eat cuppy cakes. Wait till the dead of winter to run it too because you're gonna be hot as hell.

Keep reading up on this stuff. We have tons of info on it here already. When you have a solid grasp of it, then let us know how you plan to dose it, combat sides etc... We'll critique from there.

 

[Marly27]

DNP is so miserable stuff man. I still have bottles of the shit laying around and I won't touch it.

The only scenario in which I ever think it should be used ever. Is for a competitive bodybuilder that desperately needs to cut weight in a bind or any other athlete for the matter. And the reward outweighs the risks.

For those trying to use it for aesthetics. Unless you are in the low single digits (not the bullshit 9-10% that is really 16% seen on all the forums). I'm talking 5-7% and for whatever reason your goals have you wanting to get as low as possible, then that would be a scenario as diet is probably completely dialed in.

If you don't fit in either category you will go through hell for a period of time only to end up back where you were or worse. There is a bit of a rebound.

Remember your body isn't burning off fat for a reason and it will put it back on for the same reason. Whatever it is. Dial in your discipline first.