Drops testosterone may not be due to aging

DocDePanda187123

fitasfuk50's Operating System
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
8,074
Reaction score
5,825
Points
283
testosterone Level in Men Correlates With BMI and Cardiorespiratory Fitness But Is Not Related To Age
http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0037/ea0037ep144.htm

Background: Presently it is unknown how much of testosterone decline associated with aging is actually due to ageing per se, and how much is related to weight gain, decreased activity, and other age-related factors. Understanding the modifiable factors associated with low testosterone, such as obesity or cardiorespiratory fitness (fitness) is critical.

Methods: The observational, cross-sectional study included 1653 men, ≥50 and <80 years of age, seen between January 2012 and December 2012 for a preventive medical examination and underwent BMI, total testosterone, and objective fitness measurements as defined by the total duration of time on a maximum Balke treadmill test. Treadmill time was then used to estimate metabolic equivalents (METs).

All participants underwent morning (0700–0900 h) total testosterone measurement using the standard chemiluminescence method. Testosterone thresholds were categorized into low (<250 ng/dl), low normal (250–<400 ng/dl), and normal (≥400 ng/dl).

We used traditional sample statistics to summarise characteristics of the sample within decades of age and ordered categories of BMI.

Results: While levels of mean testosterone levels in all age groups were in the normal range were statistically different between groups, (50–59 years, testosterone mean=479.0 ng/dl (S.D.=175.4); 60–69 years, testosterone mean=457.2 ng/dl (S.D.=204.1); and 70–79 years, testosterone mean=464.6 ng/dl (S.D.=176.7); trend P value=0.05), although, the trend was statistically different, mean testosterone levels in all groups were in the normal range.

The prevalence of low testosterone did not significantly differ between 50–59, 60–69, and 70–79 age groups (<250 ng/dl=7.6–9.3% to 8.7%; trend test P=0.17) but did change with increasing BMI, (<250 ng/dl=3.4–6.8% to 17.8%; trend test P<0.001).

Finally, fitness was positively correlated with total testosterone levels (P<0.001) and this correlation persisted after adjustment for age and BMI.

Conclusion: In this group of generally healthy men, there was no decrease in the mean total testosterone level with increasing age, yet we found statistically and clinically negative correlation between testosterone and BMI and positive correlation between testosterone and fitness.
 

PillarofBalance

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
20,402
Reaction score
18,204
Points
0
I am also a believer in environmental factors - toxic chemicals that act as endocrine disruptors.
 

DocDePanda187123

fitasfuk50's Operating System
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
8,074
Reaction score
5,825
Points
283
I am also a believer in environmental factors - toxic chemicals that act as endocrine disruptors.

So am I just not to the extent some of these witch hunters are. Not sysing you're one of them.

Scally posted a study the other day showing how Tylenol can drop test levels after 2 days of concurrent use. Think it's just opiates and prescription painkillers? Nope, regular old Tylenol can do it.
 

Iron1

Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
2,927
Reaction score
4,390
Points
153
I wonder why would they use BMI for this when it's a bit of a flawed system? Are we to assume the elevated BMI was caused by adipose tissue instead of lean mass? Bodyfat percentage would be more meaningful, imo.

I'd wager those with higher BMI's/lower test would have elevated e2 due to increased aromatization from carrying more adipose tissue.
 

PillarofBalance

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
20,402
Reaction score
18,204
Points
0
So am I just not to the extent some of these witch hunters are. Not sysing you're one of them.

Scally posted a study the other day showing how Tylenol can drop test levels after 2 days of concurrent use. Think it's just opiates and prescription painkillers? Nope, regular old Tylenol can do it.

Pesticides too. Many of which are potent neurotoxins
 

Megatron28

Elite
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
704
Reaction score
619
Points
93
This is the old Chicken or the Egg conundrum. Did low T make you fat or did getting fat lower your T? In reality, we can probably say it is a little of both and once it starts you spiral downward (and upward).
 

DocDePanda187123

fitasfuk50's Operating System
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
8,074
Reaction score
5,825
Points
283
I wonder why would they use BMI for this when it's a bit of a flawed system? Are we to assume the elevated BMI was caused by adipose tissue instead of lean mass? Bodyfat percentage would be more meaningful, imo.

I'd wager those with higher BMI's/lower test would have elevated e2 due to increased aromatization from carrying more adipose tissue.

Body fat would definitely be more valuable than BMI since it doesn't discriminate between lean body mass and fat mass as you already know. They probably used BMI though bc it's much cheaper and faster to measure someone's height and weight than hook them up to a dexa scan or bodpod.
 

DocDePanda187123

fitasfuk50's Operating System
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
8,074
Reaction score
5,825
Points
283
This is the old Chicken or the Egg conundrum. Did low T make you fat or did getting fat lower your T? In reality, we can probably say it is a little of both and once it starts you spiral downward (and upward).

The intriguing part though is that it wasnt correlated with age.
 

DocDePanda187123

fitasfuk50's Operating System
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
8,074
Reaction score
5,825
Points
283
Pesticides too. Many of which are potent neurotoxins

Certainly. I try buying organic whenever possible but at the same time I feel like organic growers charge a premium just bc they're labelled organic ie the price difference isn't just due to the increased costs of farming organically but also bc it's a trendy thing so to speak.
 

j2048b

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
5,301
Reaction score
2,405
Points
238
so if i go out and run a shit ton, and thus raise my "Cardiorespiratory Fitness" will my T start to go up then on its own? thats what im taking from this?
 

DocDePanda187123

fitasfuk50's Operating System
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
8,074
Reaction score
5,825
Points
283
so if i go out and run a shit ton, and thus raise my "Cardiorespiratory Fitness" will my T start to go up then on its own? thats what im taking from this?

Not necessarily. If you're fitness levels are abnormally low it could but if you're already pretty healthy fitness wise it won't do much if anything. It's like if you have test levels of 700ng/dL and raised it to 720ng/dL, would your gains go through the roof?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DF

Seeker

Veteran
SI Founding Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
8,859
Reaction score
10,718
Points
333
Haha bunch of test hogs here. Ain't no body got time for low test around here
 

j2048b

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
5,301
Reaction score
2,405
Points
238
Not necessarily. If you're fitness levels are abnormally low it could but if you're already pretty healthy fitness wise it won't do much if anything. It's like if you have test levels of 700ng/dL and raised it to 720ng/dL, would your gains go through the roof?

Dude noooo but my wiener might look a bit veinier..... So BOOM goals met!

Haha
 

DocDePanda187123

fitasfuk50's Operating System
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
8,074
Reaction score
5,825
Points
283
Dude noooo but my wiener might look a bit veinier..... So BOOM goals met!

Haha

My goal is to add 5 more inches to my 2in pp. Sadly that didn't happen even after I hung from a ceiling cfan by it :(
 

HDH

Elite
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
1,118
Reaction score
447
Points
83
No worries here.

I have no intention on ever having low Test.

Even when I'm 99 :)

If I make it :32 (6):

H
 

MrRippedZilla

Retired
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
1,706
Reaction score
3,522
Points
153
I'm always wary of reading too much into correlation studies like this.

Although it does state that age had no effect on mean test levels - it also clearly shows that aging alone will reduce test levels, even if your still in the normal range.
I don't think anyone was making the argument that aging ALONE will result in low T (hypogonadal levels) excluding those genetically predisposed to such things.

The data looking at the HPTA and all the things that influence it is still pretty young & weak IMO so trying to figure out EXACTLY what causes low T comes down to logical reasoning more than anything - though of course it will be multi-factorial.

With that said, I don't see any logical reason for your body to maintain test production when your fat & inactive in the Western society.
Food availability isn't an issue, being inactive negates the need for muscle mass, energy, strength, etc and due to easy access we have to plenty of women for sex there is no need for high libido, etc. Then of course you the fact that low T doesn't equal infertility - you can still have kids.

I know when looking at physiology logic doesn't always apply but I just don't see a valid reason to maintain test levels in our society when your fat, inactive and relatively comfortable.
 

DocDePanda187123

fitasfuk50's Operating System
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
8,074
Reaction score
5,825
Points
283
I'm always wary of reading too much into correlation studies like this.

Although it does state that age had no effect on mean test levels - it also clearly shows that aging alone will reduce test levels, even if your still in the normal range.
I don't think anyone was making the argument that aging ALONE will result in low T (hypogonadal levels) excluding those genetically predisposed to such things.

The data looking at the HPTA and all the things that influence it is still pretty young & weak IMO so trying to figure out EXACTLY what causes low T comes down to logical reasoning more than anything - though of course it will be multi-factorial.

With that said, I don't see any logical reason for your body to maintain test production when your fat & inactive in the Western society.
Food availability isn't an issue, being inactive negates the need for muscle mass, energy, strength, etc and due to easy access we have to plenty of women for sex there is no need for high libido, etc. Then of course you the fact that low T doesn't equal infertility - you can still have kids.

I know when looking at physiology logic doesn't always apply but I just don't see a valid reason to maintain test levels in our society when your fat, inactive and relatively comfortable.

I agree. I just thought this very interesting as you always hear ppl say the older you get the lower your test levels get when now we can see it might not be due to age or solely bc of age. Like you said it's multi-factorial for sure.
 

Megatron28

Elite
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
704
Reaction score
619
Points
93
I'm always wary of reading too much into correlation studies like this.

Although it does state that age had no effect on mean test levels - it also clearly shows that aging alone will reduce test levels, even if your still in the normal range.
I don't think anyone was making the argument that aging ALONE will result in low T (hypogonadal levels) excluding those genetically predisposed to such things.

The data looking at the HPTA and all the things that influence it is still pretty young & weak IMO so trying to figure out EXACTLY what causes low T comes down to logical reasoning more than anything - though of course it will be multi-factorial.

With that said, I don't see any logical reason for your body to maintain test production when your fat & inactive in the Western society.
Food availability isn't an issue, being inactive negates the need for muscle mass, energy, strength, etc and due to easy access we have to plenty of women for sex there is no need for high libido, etc. Then of course you the fact that low T doesn't equal infertility - you can still have kids.

I know when looking at physiology logic doesn't always apply but I just don't see a valid reason to maintain test levels in our society when your fat, inactive and relatively comfortable.

Not sure this is the way to approach this. I think it is simply the HPTA at work. It is a simple feedback loop.

Body fat goes up (for whatever reasons) which results in more Testosterone aromatizing into estrogen. The pituitary senses too much estrogen so it reduces LH output. Less LH means less Testosterone. Back to homeostasis.
 

New Threads

Top