Gyno reversal?

[bgib]

I ran a PH cycle a few months ago and after I finished a 6 week pct I started getting gyno, I waited a couple weeks and it just kept growing and growing.i ordered some arimidex and tamoxifen to try to reverse it, I know letro is what people suggest but I didn't want to completely crash my e and feel like shit for a month. can anyone tell me if it would be better to run only tamoxifen, only arimidex or both simotaniously and then cut out the arimidex after a while and continue tamox. any insight from someone with experience would be great. thanks

 

[DocDePanda187123]

Tamoxifen 20mg a day until gone

 

[GYMBRAT]

Only shitty deal is now you will ALWAYS get it while on cycle unless you keep up with an AI

So keep that in mind

 

[DocDePanda187123]

Only shitty deal is now you will ALWAYS get it while on cycle unless you keep up with an AI

So keep that in mind

That is not true.

 

[BiologicalChemist]

What pro-hormone? Don't wouldn't run these..if you're going to jump on something do the real thing and be prepared before you start. Sorry to hear about the gyno though, that sucks. Always run an ai from day one. I've read Reversal is difficult once gyno or tissue growth has occurred..letro would be best bet but you may have to deal with the risk of a short-term libido crash. I'd recommend an AI (aromasin) over nolva mainly because ai's are suicidal inhibitors and aromasin is strong but not as strong as letro. It's hard to tell without blood-work, find out where your E2 is at. Gd luck.

 

[John Ziegler]

I'd recommend an AI (aromasin) over nolva mainly because ai's are suicidal inhibitors and aromasin is strong but not as strong as letro.

Did you mean aromasin over adex ? Nevermind I forgot tamoxifin is nolva and you must be addressing what Doc said.

 

[BiologicalChemist]

Did you mean aromasin over adex ? Nevermind I forgot tamoxifin is nolva and you must be addressing what Doc said.

I meant exemestane (aromasin) but yeah its an AI like adex. it's just stronger and has a longer half-life. Nolva is a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) so it doesn't have the suicidal inhibition at the enzymatic level like Ai's do. Which means ai's permanently prevent binding of testosterone and conversion to estrogen. Where as Nolva blocks binding temporarily..if you stop nolva and your estrogen isn't under control yet it will simply bind or have a rebound like effect and gyno may occur after

 

[BiologicalChemist]

Did you mean aromasin over adex ? Nevermind I forgot tamoxifin is nolva and you must be addressing what Doc said.

My bad Zeig just realized I misread your post.. yes I meant aromasin over adex. I would use this over nolva in my opinion.

 

[Popeye]

because ai's are suicidal inhibitors

Didn't read all the posts, but not all ai's are suicide inhibitors....only aromasin

 

[DocDePanda187123]

What pro-hormone? Don't wouldn't run these..if you're going to jump on something do the real thing and be prepared before you start. Sorry to hear about the gyno though, that sucks. Always run an ai from day one. I've read Reversal is difficult once gyno or tissue growth has occurred..letro would be best bet but you may have to deal with the risk of a short-term libido crash. I'd recommend an AI (aromasin) over nolva mainly because ai's are suicidal inhibitors and aromasin is strong but not as strong as letro. It's hard to tell without blood-work, find out where your E2 is at. Gd luck.

Reversing gyno once tissue growth has occurred is pretty common, Even pubertal gyno years down the road. Letro is not the most effective treatment though. No AI is. SERM treatment, nolvadex and raloxifene specifically, are the two best compounds for reversing gyno.

Also, like Pops mentioned, not all AI's are suicidal. Out of the 3 common ones on the forum, only aromasin is suicidal.

I meant exemestane (aromasin) but yeah its an AI like adex. it's just stronger and has a longer half-life.

Adex is significantly stronger than aromasin. Adex's half life is ~50hrs whereas aromasin's half life is ~9hrs so adex really has the longer half life.

Nolva is a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) so it doesn't have the suicidal inhibition at the enzymatic level like Ai's do.

Nolva is a SERM and isn't "suicidal" but like mentioned above, not all AI's are suicidal.

Which means ai's permanently prevent binding of testosterone and conversion to estrogen. Where as Nolva blocks binding temporarily..

With non-suicidal AI's like adex and letro you don't get irreversible binding to the aromatase enzyme inhibiting conversion of androgens to estrogens. The binding is temporary but you get much better estrogen suppression.

With suicidal AI's like aromasin you get irreversible binding to the aromatase enzyme but you also get less estrogen suppression.

With nolvadex you get mixed agonist and antagonist activity at the estrogen receptor (ER), but with regards to gyno, we're only concerned with it's antagonistic activity in breast tissue ER. By acting as an antagonist it binds to the ER WITHOUT activating it which in turn means estrogen has no place to bind to it's receptor. This is why nolvadex and raloxifene are the only compounds that can prevent gyno and are the most effective at reversing it.

if you stop nolva and your estrogen isn't under control yet it will simply bind or have a rebound like effect and gyno may occur after

The "rebound" effect is not associated with nolva like it is with adex or letro. There can be no rebound with nolva. There isn't an estrogen rebound from non-irreversible AI's anyway. You do not get estrogen rebound with adex or letro either. The rebound is another one of those bro science things that hasn't quite died yet which also makes aromasin's irreversible properties irrelevant.

 

[bgib]

so would it be beneficial to run dex and nolva together? I hear that nolva can make ai's less effective

 

[DocDePanda187123]

so would it be beneficial to run dex and nolva together? I hear that nolva can make ai's less effective

No, it's best to run nolvadex or raloxifene to treat the gyno. Adex would be used to control your estrogen which, if you're not on anything currently, shouldn't be high to begin with. You also shouldn't assume it's high or low without seeing blood work. There's no need for any AI right now without bloods showing high estrogen and then the case becomes why is estrogen high of you're not running anything. You still wouldn't jump to the AI until you figured out the underlying condition.

Nolva reduces serum levels of adex yes BUT, and I cant stress this enough, this doesn't make the adex any less effective. A study has shown this.

 

[Popeye]

yes BUT, and I fat stress this enough, this doesn't make the adex any less effective. A study has shown this.

this made me laugh out loud...lmao, i dont know why...gotta love autocorrect

 

[DocDePanda187123]

this made me laugh out loud...lmao, i dont know why...gotta love autocorrect

Autocorrect hates me lol. I fixed it but nice catch Pops

 

[bgib]

I guess I just assumed that if the gyno is growing still then e levels must be high

 

[DocDePanda187123]

I guess I just assumed that if the gyno is growing still then e levels must be high

Not necessarily no. There are other factors than come into play as well. Blood work will be the only way to know if your estradiol is high or not although I doubt that is the case.

 

[Freedom]

Raloxifene is shrinking my down. Might have to take it for a few months though.

 

[BiologicalChemist]

Reversing gyno once tissue growth has occurred is pretty common, Even pubertal gyno years down the road. Letro is not the most effective treatment though. No AI is. SERM treatment, nolvadex and raloxifene specifically, are the two best compounds for reversing gyno.

Also, like Pops mentioned, not all AI's are suicidal. Out of the 3 common ones on the forum, only aromasin is suicidal.



Adex is significantly stronger than aromasin. Adex's half life is ~50hrs whereas aromasin's half life is ~9hrs so adex really has the longer half life.



Nolva is a SERM and isn't "suicidal" but like mentioned above, not all AI's are suicidal.



With non-suicidal AI's like adex and letro you don't get irreversible binding to the aromatase enzyme inhibiting conversion of androgens to estrogens. The binding is temporary but you get much better estrogen suppression.

With suicidal AI's like aromasin you get irreversible binding to the aromatase enzyme but you also get less estrogen suppression.

With nolvadex you get mixed agonist and antagonist activity at the estrogen receptor (ER), but with regards to gyno, we're only concerned with it's antagonistic activity in breast tissue ER. By acting as an antagonist it binds to the ER WITHOUT activating it which in turn means estrogen has no place to bind to it's receptor. This is why nolvadex and raloxifene are the only compounds that can prevent gyno and are the most effective at reversing it.



The "rebound" effect is not associated with nolva like it is with adex or letro. There can be no rebound with nolva. There isn't an estrogen rebound from non-irreversible AI's anyway. You do not get estrogen rebound with adex or letro either. The rebound is another one of those bro science things that hasn't quite died yet which also makes aromasin's irreversible properties irrelevant.

Awesome thanks for clarification doc I gotta get my facts straight! Im glad these points were brought up.

 

[gymrat827]

60mg ralox for 2-4wks

12.5 ED stane for 2-4wks

then drop down to

30mg ralox

12.5 E3D

than 30mg ralox ED til its gone

6.25 mg EOD stane


its a slow tapering process to prevent rebound.

 

[GotClen]

This thread just proves PH can shut you down just like the real goodies.
Most just don't realize it happens.
Hope you are getting the gyno under control
Gc