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  1. #1
    Elite BiologicalChemist's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Clomid/nolva/hcg during TRT to maintain or increase fertility?

    This is just a thought that I'm skeptical about. Would taking clomid/nolva combo or one or the other during trt cruise increase your fertility? What if you throw in hcg? Does anyone do this or anyone tried it?

    I'm asking because I'm on trt along with hcg which i want to and choose to do. I've got a gf, she's psycho and mentioned children (no way) but it did make me think about my future. I previously always told myself no kids f that. But If I did want children (mainly because most women want them or they ditch..) i wouldn't try until around age 30 ish ..My hope is when or if that time comes ill get off the gear and do a hefty pct (clomid/nolva) but I'm wondering how successful this is and what other guys do? Should I take breaks on the trt? (which is kinda not trt ) or is the simplest answer to run cycles time on time off...or not at all..

    I'm just thinking there must be some protocols because if flex lewis had a child this year..Johnny Jackson has a few children...Branch has a girl.. Evan C. has a girl, and I think Ronnie has had about 10 kids since 1999...

    I found these studies on clomid nolva during trt but no hcg is involved...

    "Effectiveness of combined tamoxifen citrate and testosterone undecanoate treatment in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.
    Adamopoulos DA, Pappa A, Billa E, Nicopoulou S, Koukkou E, Michopoulos J.
    Source

    Department of Endocrinology, Elena Venizelou Hospital, Athens, Greece. hel-soc-andro@ath.fortnet.gr
    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE:

    To assess the effect of treatment with a combination of the antiestrogen tamoxifen citrate and the androgen testosterone undecanoate on sperm variables and pregnancy incidence in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia and couple subfertility.
    DESIGN:

    Prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled trial.
    SETTING:

    Clinical research in a tertiary care academic hospital.
    PATIENT(S):

    Two hundred twelve men with idiopathic oligozoospermia and 82 normozoospermic men with female factor subfertility.
    INTERVENTION(S):

    Oligozoospermic patients were randomly assigned to two treatment groups with tamoxifen citrate, 20 mg/d, and testosterone undecanoate, 120 mg/d (n = 106) or placebo treatment (n = 106) for 6 months. Normozoospermic men were followed for the same period. Couple counseling was part of the intervention in all groups.
    MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S):

    Pregnancy incidence and sperm characteristics after 3 and 6 months on medication and 3 months after the end of the trial.
    RESULT(S):

    In the active treatment group, total sperm count (median [25th, 75th percentile], 27.1 x 10(6) cells/mL [9.4, 54.0 x 10(6) cells/mL] at baseline and 61.5 x 10(6) cells/mL [28.2, 119.6 x 10(6) cells/mL] at 6 months), progressive motility (mean [+/-SD], 29.7% +/- 12.0% at baseline and 41.6% +/- 13.1% at 6 months), and normal morphology (mean, 41.2% +/- 14.0% at baseline and 56.6% +/- 11.5% at 6 months) were noted. No marked changes were observed in placebo recipients or normozoospermic men. The incidence of spontaneous pregnancy was 33.9% in the active treatment group and 10.3% in the placebo group (36 vs. 11 pregnancies), with a relative risk of 3.195 (95% CI, 2.615 to 3.765).
    CONCLUSION(S):

    Treatment with tamoxifen citrate and testosterone undecanoate improved sperm variables and led to a higher incidence of pregnancy in couples with subfertility related to idiopathic oligozoospermia."


    "The combination of testosterone undecanoate with tamoxifen citrate enhances the effects of each agent given independently on seminal parameters in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.
    Adamopoulos DA, Nicopoulou S, Kapolla N, Karamertzanis M, Andreou E.
    Source

    Endocrine Department, Elena Venizelou Hospital, Athens, Greece.
    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE:

    To evaluate the effects of combined tamoxifen citrate and T undecanoate treatment on seminal parameters in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.
    DESIGN:

    Prospective randomized clinical study.
    SETTING:

    A state hospital tertiary clinic.
    PATIENT(S):

    Eighty oligozoospermic men were included in the protocol.
    INTERVENTION(S):

    Patients were randomized to receive placebo, T undecanoate (40 mg three times per day), tamoxifen citrate (10 mg two times per day), or T undecanoate plus tamoxifen citrate.
    RESULT(S):

    Tamoxifen citrate plus T undecanoate treatment produced a satisfactory improvement of total sperm number, motility, and functional sperm fraction after 3 and 6 months. Comparisons with other active treatment groups showed significantly higher increment values for motility and functional fraction, whereas aniline, acrosine, and free L-carnitine also were markedly better in the combination treatment group.
    CONCLUSION(S):

    These results indicate that the combination of tamoxifen citrate with T undecanoate not only improves significantly important seminal parameters but also compares favorably with the single treatments used. Therefore, this combination deserves a place as a first line of treatment in idiopathic oligozoospermia." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9093207

  2. #2
    Senior Member Franklin Yeti's Avatar
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    I'm 38 and on TRT. I've had all the kids I plan on having so this is not an issue for me. However, my DR told me that there should be no issue with your gonads coming back and producing sperm unless you are on for an extended period of time, like 5 years+. Take it for what you will, not sure if he knew what he was talking about or not, as I said, it's not an issue for me, all my horses are out of the barn Good luck.

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  4. #3
    Veteran MrRippedZilla's Avatar
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    I wont comment on the clomid/nolva part but will say that lots of guys use HCG during TRT to improve their chances of conception.

    My parents (both endos) prefer prescribing 1500iu 2x week because it seems to cause better maintenance of peak test levels as illustrated here (E4D dosing on the bottom left chart):

    http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/conten...expansion.html

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10087026
    Proud misanthropist.

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  6. #4
    Elite BiologicalChemist's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrRippedZilla View Post
    I wont comment on the clomid/nolva part but will say that lots of guys use HCG during TRT to improve their chances of conception.

    My parents (both endos) prefer prescribing 1500iu 2x week because it seems to cause better maintenance of peak test levels as illustrated here (E4D dosing on the bottom left chart):

    http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/conten...expansion.html

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10087026
    Thanks for the info Zilla

  7. #5
    Elite BiologicalChemist's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Franklin Yeti View Post
    I'm 38 and on TRT. I've had all the kids I plan on having so this is not an issue for me. However, my DR told me that there should be no issue with your gonads coming back and producing sperm unless you are on for an extended period of time, like 5 years+. Take it for what you will, not sure if he knew what he was talking about or not, as I said, it's not an issue for me, all my horses are out of the barn Good luck.
    Makes sense to me. A buddy at my gym who is 42 used to be a heavy user and weight 265 he claims he would run clomid on cycle but I always thought this was useless seeing as that pathway would shutdown/over run by the test etc..Thanks for the input

  8. #6
    Elite Megatron28's Avatar
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    You can always break out the hMG too if the hCG isn't cutting it. It mimics FSH.
    PCT is for quitters... Joliver

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    BiologicalChemist (12-08-2015),John Ziegler (12-04-2015)

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