A basic guide to periodization

thqmas

Elite
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Messages
1,175
Reaction score
1,103
Points
0
How did I miss this post? Just beautiful. I almost shed a tear.

In regards of over-training: I over trained ounce. It took about 10 months till it hit me, I kept with it for a month or so. I dropped everything except the test, the Insomnia was horrible! Performance was going downhill. It took time to recover...

I love when guys at the gym say "Don't over train bro" - They have no idea how much I worked hard to over train and they think that doing curls to failure will? Ha!
 

TheHercWithAMouth

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
92
Reaction score
27
Points
0
I love when guys at the gym say "Don't over train bro" - They have no idea how much I worked hard to over train and they think that doing curls to failure will? Ha!

I always credit Mark Rippetoe with that shitty addition to gym culture. Don't wanna do more than 5 x 5 because the big bad overtraining boogeyman will steal all your gainz. But drinking a galon of whole milk a day will make him go away.
 

DocDePanda187123

fitasfuk50's Operating System
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
8,074
Reaction score
5,825
Points
283
I always credit Mark Rippetoe with that shitty addition to gym culture. Don't wanna do more than 5 x 5 because the big bad overtraining boogeyman will steal all your gainz. But drinking a galon of whole milk a day will make him go away.

How is it someone's fault that their words weren't understood correctly or were taken out of context?
 

automatondan

Elite
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,990
Reaction score
2,509
Points
0
I think lifters forget that it takes a while for overtraining syndrome to really set in and you usually "feel" it coming.
A few weeks of going balls to the wall, if programmed properly, would actually accelerate progress. Maxing out for months on end - different story.

I think laziness has become an epidemic. Nobody wants to work anymore.... To work for something is unfair....
 

MrRippedZilla

Retired
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
1,706
Reaction score
3,522
Points
153
I think laziness has become an epidemic. Nobody wants to work anymore.... To work for something is unfair....

Laziness has always been around - people just get more creative in ways to avoid working hard & achieving their goals. Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but don’t nobody want to lift no heavy-ass weights...
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
6
Points
0
This is a great post, it's weird that it isn't a sticky. Anyways, sorry for necrobumping.

I wanted to create a new thread but since you offered your help at the end of the OP I thought it may be better to start here. I know this is an old post but since you are still active I thought it would be fine.

I read the whole OP twice and I still couldn't find the answer to this question:

Is overreaching necessary for supercompensation to occur? Should one do more volume than that from which the body can recover before supercompensation can take place?

To give an example, let's say I do 20 sets of chest per week in the last two weeks of my meso cycle and that's as much as I can do before running into recovery issues. The last week of my meso cycle before the deload (week or whatever), should I do 25 or do I stick to 20?
 

CJ

Mod Squad
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
20,725
Reaction score
38,446
Points
383
You can do either, there's two schools of thoughts on this. One is steady progression over time, the other is maximize the meso.

Camp 1 would be something like 18,18,18,18,18, deload.

Camp 2 would be something like 14,16,18,20,22(functional overreaching), deload.

Both average 18 sets per week over the meso, but build fatigue differently. Workouts can start to get lonnnnng if you go the 2nd route.

You should still build/dissipate fatigue workout to workout, and thus have supercompensation. The deload serves to drop accumulated fatigue levels, so you can express your new levels of fitness.
 
Last edited:

MrRippedZilla

Retired
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
1,706
Reaction score
3,522
Points
153
This is a great post, it's weird that it isn't a sticky. Anyways, sorry for necrobumping.

Is overreaching necessary for supercompensation to occur? Should one do more volume than that from which the body can recover before supercompensation can take place?

To give an example, let's say I do 20 sets of chest per week in the last two weeks of my meso cycle and that's as much as I can do before running into recovery issues. The last week of my meso cycle before the deload (week or whatever), should I do 25 or do I stick to 20?
I agree with the bold and encourage you to express your outrage at this not being a sticky to the staff members (start with PillarofBalance and work your way down).

Overreaching is an optimal way for supercompensation to occur via training. It is not the only way to achieve it overall and therefore it isn't "necessary". You can get a supercompensatory response with a more linear pattern as long as you program an underreaching period (deload, etc) to allow you to recover and achieve said supercompensated response. Timing becomes more difficult with this latter approach but still, it is achievable.

In the overreaching phase, I want a set number that leads to a maximum regression of 10% accumulated over a period of 1-3 weeks. If that number is 20, then cool, stick to 20. Then cut volume down by 50% (seriously) for 1-2 weeks of deloading. The length of the deload will correlate with the level of performance regression. Rinse and repeat. This is one of my preferred methods. Classic 2 factor theory - training stimuli is higher than normal = fatigue is higher than normal = recovery needs to be more than normal = supercompensation is better than normal. Also a classic example of block training - 3 on/1 off.

Trivia: I actually did start to write another article specifically about how planned "overtraining" can be beneficial, which is why you see a lack of detail on that specific topic in this thread. I might get back to it if the staff decide to bribe me with a sticky for this baby :)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
6
Points
0
I agree with the bold and encourage you to express your outrage at this not being a sticky to the staff members (start with PillarofBalance and work your way down).

Overreaching is an optimal way for supercompensation to occur via training. It is not the only way to achieve it overall and therefore it isn't "necessary". You can get a supercompensatory response with a more linear pattern as long as you program an underreaching period (deload, etc) to allow you to recover and achieve said supercompensated response. Timing becomes more difficult with this latter approach but still, it is achievable.

In the overreaching phase, I want a set number that leads to a maximum regression of 10% accumulated over a period of 1-3 weeks. If that number is 20, then cool, stick to 20. Then cut volume down by 50% (seriously) for 1-2 weeks of deloading. The length of the deload will correlate with the level of performance regression. Rinse and repeat. This is one of my preferred methods. Classic 2 factor theory - training stimuli is higher than normal = fatigue is higher than normal = recovery needs to be more than normal = supercompensation is better than normal. Also a classic example of block training - 3 on/1 off.

Trivia: I actually did start to write another article specifically about how planned "overtraining" can be beneficial, which is why you see a lack of detail on that specific topic in this thread. I might get back to it if the staff decide to bribe me with a sticky for this baby :)

Makes sense. If you do go down the overreaching route, then it becomes easier to know when those deloads need to be. If you've been overreaching for the past 3 weeks (your performance dropped or you can't get past a plateau that you definitely should) then you know for sure that you need a deload, but overreaching is not necessary for supercompensation to occur.

As a related question: on Monday I started my first deload, I dropped intensity and volume by half. Now assuming that the amount of reps that I do stay the same, should I expect to increase the intensity of most or all of my lifts? If I can't do that, does that mean that I'm not fully recovered and I should keep going with the deload?

Thanks for the clear reply. I'm glad this is a sticky now.
 

CJ

Mod Squad
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
20,725
Reaction score
38,446
Points
383
... If you do go down the overreaching route, then it becomes easier to know when those deloads need to be. If you've been overreaching for the past 3 weeks (your performance dropped or you can't get past a plateau that you definitely should) then you know for sure that you need a deload....

I think that overreaching for 3 straight weeks is probably too much, maybe it should be just the week before the deload. That's a lot of fatigue you'll be building.

But I define overreaching as meaning a session that you can't recover from before the next session occurs, so three straight weeks of that would be counterproductive in my opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong.
 

MrRippedZilla

Retired
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
1,706
Reaction score
3,522
Points
153
As a related question: on Monday I started my first deload, I dropped intensity and volume by half. Now assuming that the amount of reps that I do stay the same, should I expect to increase the intensity of most or all of my lifts? If I can't do that, does that mean that I'm not fully recovered and I should keep going with the deload?

Thanks for the clear reply. I'm glad this is a sticky now.
In general, I don't like dropping intensity for deloads. Keep it the same, slash volume drastically (20-50%). It's a better way of dissipating the built up fatigue that "hides" your progress. Coming off the deload you should expect, at a minimum, to be back to where you were before the overreaching phase started regressing your numbers. Ideally, you want to be in a better position (supercompensate) but progress isn't constant for advanced lifters. Basically - if you're back to lifting what you normally lift before the regression started, then the deload did its job.

I think that overreaching for 3 straight weeks is probably too much, maybe it should be just the week before the deload. That's a lot of fatigue you'll be building.

But I define overreaching as meaning a session that you can't recover from before the next session occurs, so three straight weeks of that would be counterproductive in my opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong.
As long as intensity doesn't regress more than 10%, 3 weeks is fine. It may require a 2 week vs 1 week deload is all. Deload period is correleated to the level of overreach and regression remember. Of course all of this depends on what exactly your training split is to begin with. Key point here is that I wouldn't start with a 3 week overreach for someone who's never really overreached before.

Also keep in mind that full recovery from session to session isn't necessary on a normal training cycle. Nevermind an overreaching phase. That's the mistake the brosplit dudes make - they think full recovery is needed before hitting the muscle again. They're wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CJ
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
6
Points
0
I think that overreaching for 3 straight weeks is probably too much, maybe it should be just the week before the deload. That's a lot of fatigue you'll be building.

But I define overreaching as meaning a session that you can't recover from before the next session occurs, so three straight weeks of that would be counterproductive in my opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong.
I didn't meant doing 50 sets a week but doing something moderate and, like RippedZilla said, doing something to cause something like a 10% performance drop. I apologise for not being clear on that.
In general, I don't like dropping intensity for deloads. Keep it the same, slash volume drastically (20-50%). It's a better way of dissipating the built up fatigue that "hides" your progress. Coming off the deload you should expect, at a minimum, to be back to where you were before the overreaching phase started regressing your numbers. Ideally, you want to be in a better position (supercompensate) but progress isn't constant for advanced lifters. Basically - if you're back to lifting what you normally lift before the regression started, then the deload did its job.


As long as intensity doesn't regress more than 10%, 3 weeks is fine. It may require a 2 week vs 1 week deload is all. Deload period is correleated to the level of overreach and regression remember. Of course all of this depends on what exactly your training split is to begin with. Key point here is that I wouldn't start with a 3 week overreach for someone who's never really overreached before.
Understood. It's good to be able to judge if the deload did it's job. I was actually wondering if I should extend my deload to 2 weeks, but I think I'm going to go ahead and see how next week goes.

About dropping weights and volume, I did both only because I had been training 6x a week for 12+ weeks and never took a day off. I though doing that would make the deload a bit more effective. Next time I'll try only dropping volume and see how it works out.

You are saying it would be more efficient to overreach for 3 weeks and do a 2 week deload instead of overreaching for 1 and start with the next meso sooner?
 

dreamscraper

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
129
Reaction score
64
Points
0
When things shutdown for COVID I realize I was pretty much forced to do Step Loading because of the weights and increments I have in my home gym. I hit a lifetime PR on overhead press.
Now a few months of going back to the gym I have actually regressed. I think step loading is incredibly underrated because it is just hard to mess up. We have this bias to want to do something more complicated, coaches have an even bigger bias to want to add complexity. In a modern gym with all these weights available, it is just so hard to stick with the same weight and not want to feel what the other weights feel like.

Keep doing the same weight until it is easy and then make a big jump up, repeat.
 
Last edited:

rawdeal

Elite
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
1,613
Points
113
This is a great post, it's weird that it isn't a sticky. Anyways, sorry for necrobumping.

I wanted to create a new thread but since you offered your help at the end of the OP I thought it may be better to start here. I know this is an old post but since you are still active I thought it would be fine.

I read the whole OP twice and I still couldn't find the answer to this question:

Is overreaching necessary for supercompensation to occur? Should one do more volume than that from which the body can recover before supercompensation can take place?

To give an example, let's say I do 20 sets of chest per week in the last two weeks of my meso cycle and that's as much as I can do before running into recovery issues. The last week of my meso cycle before the deload (week or whatever), should I do 25 or do I stick to 20?


So I come to a board limited in effect to gymrats to learn a new Internet term, new to me at least ... "necrobumping." I am sorry to posthumously post, but this thread was a jewel, always glad to stumble on MrRippedZilla's stuff, and sorry to see MarvelousChester seems to have left UG; his questions helped keep a good thread going.
 

New Threads

Top