The Bro Split: why it sucks & better alternatives

Cobra Strike

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That's where volume control and focusing on quality, rather than quantity, comes in :)

In all seriousness, the most optimal programme on paper means nothing if people cannot follow it in reality...adherence > everything else.

Oh I am all about quality my man. My workouts are definitely not geared to volume. I.e. today was chest...all are 4 sets with 12 - 20 rep ranges. Incline smith 4 sec negatives with a super set to failure at the end/flat bench dumbbell press to failure w/4 sec negatives/Low cable flys x 20 reps/high cable flys x 20 reps and a super set slow push hammer strength press to failure after each set. Takes me about 35-40 minutes to do. then add on 40 minutes of cardio...that's plenty of time in the gym for me. Of course not everyones schedule is as demanding as mine and then there is the if you want it bad enough you will make it happen thing...I balance.
 
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Resurrecting a month old thread ... my specialty ;)
I firmly agree with the 2x per week advantage over the usual 'Bro Split' .... from years of personal experience I grow better with increased frequency. I too have a hectic demanding schedule and I can only hit the gym 4 days a week so what has worked thus far for me is the PPL approach .... Mon-Push, Tue-Pull, Wed-Off, Thu-Legs, Fri-Push .... and then keep it rotating so the following Mon-Pull, Tue-Legs,Wed-off, Thu-Push, Fri-Pull and so on and so on .... with this approach each week sees one of the three done twice in that week but if you look at the time between each muscle group it never goes over 7 days before being hit 2x. So this fills the need for increased frequency while allowing for a 4 day protocol for those of us with busy schedules ... and it keeps it interesting since each week is slightly different ..... Not Chest every Monday like the rest of the world ... So, if anyone sees where this can be improved upon please feel free to chime in ... always learning
 

Mind2muscle

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When I first started out when I was 15 or so I only trained Chest and bi's (stupid I know) but I would train them 3xa week and the mass came on very quickly. Albeit it was also due to me being a beginner. I currently train 2 body parts per session....back/bis, chest/tris, shoulders/accessory/lagging and legs. I want to try to make this even more compact so I can increase the frequency I hit each muscle group per week.
 
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Going for MASS currently bro split.......
chest tri
back bi
shoulders
legs
arms
rest
rest

I have all the time to workout everyday and endless hours

I was thinking this

chest/back
shoulders arms
legs
repeat
rest one day

or maybe a PPL PPL rest

looking for maximum mass im thinking the first option may be better can focus more direct work but not sure

ive done ppl before but found I got lean didn't bulk well on it could of been calories not sure yes ppl seems more popular than my first split but I don't miss a day in the gym and have the time to train
 

MrRippedZilla

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Going for MASS currently bro split.......
chest tri
back bi
shoulders
legs
arms
rest
rest

I have all the time to workout everyday and endless hours

I was thinking this

chest/back
shoulders arms
legs
repeat
rest one day

or maybe a PPL PPL rest

looking for maximum mass im thinking the first option may be better can focus more direct work but not sure

ive done ppl before but found I got lean didn't bulk well on it could of been calories not sure yes ppl seems more popular than my first split but I don't miss a day in the gym and have the time to train

I think you need to reread my original post since I made it pretty clear that the bro split, your 1st option, SUCKS and is not better than option 2 in any way, shape or form when it comes to achieving "maximum mass".

Getting lean is diet dependent so I suggest you go with option 2 while visiting the diet section to make sure your in a caloric surplus (calculate your TDEE, eat above it) with sufficient protein & carbs to fuel muscle growth.
 

ECKSRATED

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I've been doing ppl now for about five weeks. I love it. I've dropped to a trt dose and am still fuller and look better already. But damn my legs are beat up sometimes from the frequent deads and squats. Lol

I'd suggest only deadlifting ever other pull day if u deadlift
 

ron1204

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I've been doing ppl now for about five weeks. I love it. I've dropped to a trt dose and am still fuller and look better already. But damn my legs are beat up sometimes from the frequent deads and squats. Lol

I'd suggest only deadlifting ever other pull day if u deadlift

Same with me I started doing this about 6 weeks ago and I see a good difference even on trt dose
 
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I think you need to reread my original post since I made it pretty clear that the bro split, your 1st option, SUCKS and is not better than option 2 in any way, shape or form when it comes to achieving "maximum mass".

Getting lean is diet dependent so I suggest you go with option 2 while visiting the diet section to make sure your in a caloric surplus (calculate your TDEE, eat above it) with sufficient protein & carbs to fuel muscle growth.


that's why I gave to options....


#1 was
chest/back
Shoulders Arms
Legs
repeat
rest one day

#2 was PPL

but I feel #1 would get more gains but not sure that's a lot of volume specially the shoulder arm day... I would like 5 movements for shoulders than 3 for tris and 3 for bies
 

MrRippedZilla

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that's why I gave to options....

#1 was
chest/back
Shoulders Arms
Legs
repeat
rest one day

#2 was PPL

but I feel #1 would get more gains but not sure that's a lot of volume specially the shoulder arm day... I would like 5 movements for shoulders than 3 for tris and 3 for bies

Without knowing the exact setup as it pertains to volume, its impossible to determine which split will give you "more gains".
I will say that option 2 is still better since doing shoulders/arms after chest/back is stupid. If you must do option 1, then go with chest/back > legs > shoulders/arms > off > repeat instead.

I also think 5 movements for the shoulders & 3 for bi/tris is complete overkill - much better to specialize & bump up the volume on a few carefully chosen movements rather than spreading yourself too thin.
A compound shoulder movement, some direct lateral & rear delt work - done.
A standard (CG bench, pushdowns, etc) & overhead tricep movement - done.
3 movements for bi's isn't an issue as long as your using different techniques for each one rather than just doing 3 types of curls because **** it why not. Wide grip, narrow grip, one to focus on the eccentric (incline curls), one to focus on contraction (cable curls) and so on.
 
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I was thinking this just don't know how working chest back gonna go , not sure if ill be able to put 100% into back so maybe first day chest back than the next time start with back than chest

chest back

incline bench
incline fly
flat bench
chest dip

wide pulldown
straight arm pulldown
barbell row
single arm row



shoulders arms

shoulder over head press
side lateral raise
rear lateral raise
upright row
shrugs

close grip bench
over head press
push down

barbell curl
preacher curl
hammer curl

legs

squats
dead lifts
leg press
walking lunges
leg extensions
leg curls
calf raises


im use to one body part a day low volume high intensity my chest hurts for 4-5 days after I work it
 

MrRippedZilla

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I was thinking this just don't know how working chest back gonna go , not sure if ill be able to put 100% into back so maybe first day chest back than the next time start with back than chest

chest back

incline bench
incline fly
flat bench
chest dip

wide pulldown
straight arm pulldown
barbell row
single arm row



shoulders arms

shoulder over head press
side lateral raise
rear lateral raise
upright row
shrugs

close grip bench
over head press
push down

barbell curl
preacher curl
hammer curl

legs

squats
dead lifts
leg press
walking lunges
leg extensions
leg curls
calf raises


im use to one body part a day low volume high intensity my chest hurts for 4-5 days after I work it

For chest/back you would need to alternate between the two rather than doing 4 chest movements and then 4 back - not easy in the typical gym environment but possible. I still think you have way too many movements in general but w/e...good luck with it.

Also, the more frequently you train, the less DOMs you will get - just another reason why the bros split sucks.
 

ECKSRATED

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No way I could hit back and chest on the same day.

Do the push pull legs man. Just keep rotating which muscle group u hit the hardest. It allows u to hit each muscle more frequently but also allows u to recover properly. I used to love the bro splits when I did more of a bodybuilding routine. Now powerlifting and doing a PPL I can still destroy the big three and get a lot of accessory work in.

PPL really is just a split
Push...Chest shoulders Tris

Pull.... Back bis deadlift

Legs... Legs.

The more frequent training is what I like tho. Sunday I destroyed chest with 3 movements then did some lateral raises for shoulders then some extensions for Tris. Next push day I'll start with ohp then two more shoulder movements then some flies and close grip or something similar. Loving it so far
 
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For chest/back you would need to alternate between the two rather than doing 4 chest movements and then 4 back - not easy in the typical gym environment but possible. I still think you have way too many movements in general but w/e...good luck with it.

Also, the more frequently you train, the less DOMs you will get - just another reason why the bros split sucks.

yeah chest back isn't floating my boat two major muscle groups same day
 
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No way I could hit back and chest on the same day.

Do the push pull legs man. Just keep rotating which muscle group u hit the hardest. It allows u to hit each muscle more frequently but also allows u to recover properly. I used to love the bro splits when I did more of a bodybuilding routine. Now powerlifting and doing a PPL I can still destroy the big three and get a lot of accessory work in.

PPL really is just a split
Push...Chest shoulders Tris

Pull.... Back bis deadlift

Legs... Legs.

The more frequent training is what I like tho. Sunday I destroyed chest with 3 movements then did some lateral raises for shoulders then some extensions for Tris. Next push day I'll start with ohp then two more shoulder movements then some flies and close grip or something similar. Loving it so far

yeah I might go back to ppl least I can put 100% into chest the next day back I don't see doing chest and back same day one will not get 100% I had great results ppl before but I was cutting not bulking I went ppl rest pp rest repeat only legs once as they are big enough but this time ppl ppl rest

but the more I think of it high volume ppl seems better than chest back just because you can focus the big muscles first each day and the smaller ones tag along
 

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Like zilla said, if one tries to do chest/back same workout, alternating sets is the only way to do this. I actually tried doing full body workouts 3 days a week a few years back for 4 weeks as part of a 6 month training/dieting/AAS experiment I did and I enjoyed the experience.
 
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Full body

Mon - Full body, 12-15 reps
Tues
Wed - Full body, 3-5 reps
Thurs
Fri - Full body, 8-10 reps
Sat
Sun

- This is an ideal split for beginners who have experienced a few months of full body, linear training within a fixed rep range but still produces better results in advanced lifters as well (yes, full body > bro split).
- The incorporation of a high-low-mid undulating rep range is done specifically to max out 8RMs, which IME is the key training indicator for muscle growth (separated from strength, work capacity, etc).
- The mixture of reps also allows us to take advantage of the different pathways for hypertrophy (tension, fatigue, stress, etc).


RippedZilla

Sorry for the noob question but what would a routine like this look like? Which exercises and how many sets? I do understand the rep ranges but wondering if the routine would be all compound movements?

I am a beginner training for 2 months and I have been doing Stronglifts 5x5. After finishing my 12 weeks I would like to switch over to a hypertrophy based program.

Am very grateful for advice from you guys =) I work out at home so dont have access to machines or cables. Just Olympic barbell, Olympic dumbells, bench, squat rack and a pullup/dips bar and resistance bands to help me complete reps on pullups/dips. I also have Olympic EZ-Curl bar. And 300 lbs of plates
 

MrRippedZilla

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Sorry for the noob question but what would a routine like this look like? Which exercises and how many sets? I do understand the rep ranges but wondering if the routine would be all compound movements?

I am a beginner training for 2 months and I have been doing Stronglifts 5x5. After finishing my 12 weeks I would like to switch over to a hypertrophy based program.

Am very grateful for advice from you guys =) I work out at home so dont have access to machines or cables. Just Olympic barbell, Olympic dumbells, bench, squat rack and a pullup/dips bar and resistance bands to help me complete reps on pullups/dips. I also have Olympic EZ-Curl bar. And 300 lbs of plates

Noob questions are always welcomed, the whole point of these articles is to educate after all, so no need for the apology :)

Firstly, I will say that if stronglifts is working well for you then there is no need to switch anything - keep doing what works until it doesn't.
For my full body template, you would incorporate a mix of compound & iso work in each session. Transitioning from stronglifts it would probably look something like this:

Squats/deadlift
Bench/Overhead
Barbell row
Leg extension/calf raises
Lateral raises/chest flyes
Curls/face pulls
Abs/low back/core work (RKC planks, ab wheel, etc)

- 2-3 sets of 12-15, 5-6 sets of 3-5, 3-4 sets of 8-10 for the compound lifts.
- 1 set of 15-20, 2 sets of 8, 1-2 sets of 10-12 for accessory lifts.
- You can remove as much accessory work to make it all compound movements if you wish depending on your weaknesses, the template above is simply what most beginners choose/need to work on.
- You can also rotate movements in/out over 4-5 weeks so that you can build up your experience level and learn what works/doesn't work for you provided the movements have some degree of similarity (deadlift - RDL - SLDL, Row - Pendlay row - DB row - yates row, etc). I've simply used the compound lifts your used to as a demonstration in the template.
 

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