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  1. #1
    Member Matt~'s Avatar
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    Coach suggested TRT, can I have your thoughts on this?

    Hey guys, I wanted to get your thoughts on this even if I already do believe the general consensus is going to be to hold off or just to not do it.

    I did reach out to Snake and even though I learned a lot from what he had to say I figured that I would post here in order to get everyone's opinion on this.

    Last week I had a meeting with my coach and while we were exiting the room I was talking about how I think that my testosterone levels are low (Last blood I did was 11.8 nmol/L ~~ 340 ng/dL) and that the doctor wouldn't do anything about it even though they should be at their peak now that I'm 19 even though I'm pretty fat which I've heard possibly lowers natural testosterone levels. I then proceeded to say that I might try to get another appointment with the doctor in order to get my test levels raised.

    My pt told me straight up that there was no way I would get a script since their reference range was between 8 and 35 nmol/L and that I'm within it. He told me that I could do 1 ml once a week in order to help with confidence and how I'm feeling in general.
    He also did say something about 250 a week, I'm assuming that would be 250 mg testosterone per week.


    On the stickied "primer" thead I read that one should start with 100 mg a week, so the 250 mg per week my pt was talking about sounds pretty high to start with?


    After reading a lot of posts I do realize that at 19 years old I'm at a really young age to start messing with this, but that doesn't stop me from wondering what a 100 mg per week would do for my daily life.


    This is the BW I did a couple of weeks ago, I've heard from Snake that they look pretty different from what your used to but it's better than nothing I guess.
    http://imgur.com/a/X26Ns
    I'm also looking into getting my E2 tested since it isn't tested in the BW above.


    I would really appreciate your thoughts on this.

  2. #2
    Veteran snake's Avatar
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    It's a hard decision you have to make because it could affect the rest of your life. There's a chance it could complacate having children one day. It's going to be your call in the end.

    If you do down that road, I would see how the 100 mg. does you. That may be all you need to bring your test levels up to a mid range. After all, TRT is more about the feeling than the number. I had to make this decision the same as other guys on TRT but I was lucky enough to not have to cross that bridge at 19 y.o. I don't envy your position nor do I judge your decision: just be smart about it.
    Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

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    Elite PillarofBalance's Avatar
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    No 19 year old should have to live with test levels that low.

    **** your doctor.

    I would say trt wouodnt be a bad idea. But you need to get regular blood work, not use it as an excuse to use excess doses and just as important don't buy it from your coach or trainer.
    "Overzealous dosing" -Jin

    Rest in Peace Robot Lord. First round of Natty Boh is on me when I make it up there with you brother.

  4. #4
    Veteran MrRippedZilla's Avatar
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    Recommending self-administered TRT based off 1 piece of BW that is missing a tonne of data is ****ing awful advice.

    You said you were fat and that does play a role here so how fat are we talking bf% wise?

    Firstly, you need to a full hormone panel including key idnicators like FSH & LH to get a better idea of what's going on.
    Then, if secondary hypoganidism is indicated, we would need a check up on your prolactin to rule out the possibility of Hyperprolactinemia.
    Finally I'd look for confirmation at least once, if not twice, through repeat bloodwork to reconfirm the initial results.

    Your 19 and TRT in the majority of cases happens to be a lifelong treatment and does have a variety of potentially negative implications for you.
    Try to address your issues through lifestyle changes first (I've seen your journal and you are working on that) and get some decent bloodwork to confirm what you think is going on before even contemplating this decision.
    Last edited by MrRippedZilla; 09-18-2016 at 08:49 PM.
    Proud misanthropist.

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  6. #5
    Elite ken Sass's Avatar
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    see a endo

  7. #6
    Member Matt~'s Avatar
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    Great, thanks for the opinions guys. I will def hold off on self-administering TRT for now. Thanks for convincing me.

    Dont know what next move is yet, will continue my training and meanwhile look into this with more bw and see if I can find a cause.
    I don't see a reason to rush, slowly and steady something I don't mind.

    RippedZilla, haven't had it measured accurately. Looking at a picture chart I wouldn't hesitate to say around 30%.

    Edit: Pretty sure my doctor won't bother with more BW, think I'll have to look into some other labs and see what blood work options they have.
    Last edited by Matt~; 09-19-2016 at 12:56 AM.

  8. #7
    Palestinean Prophet Yaya's Avatar
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    Damn coach.....
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  9. #8
    Elite Beefcake's Avatar
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    I doubt any doctor would recommend TRT at 19yrs old. Is your coach on TRT by chance? What sports are you playing?
    Lift hard or go home!! No pain No gain!!

  10. #9
    Elite nightster's Avatar
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    You could try a Clomid run.?? But yeah more blood work is key.
    Arms like buggy whips!

  11. #10
    Veteran snake's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrRippedZilla View Post
    Recommending self-administered TRT based off 1 piece of BW that is missing a tonne of data is ****ing awful advice.

    You said you were fat and that does play a role here so how fat are we talking bf% wise?

    Firstly, you need to a full hormone panel including key idnicators like FSH & LH to get a better idea of what's going on.
    Then, if secondary hypoganidism is indicated, we would need a check up on your prolactin to rule out the possibility of Hyperprolactinemia.
    Finally I'd look for confirmation at least once, if not twice, through repeat bloodwork to reconfirm the initial results.

    Your 19 and TRT in the majority of cases happens to be a lifelong treatment and does have a variety of potentially negative implications for you.
    Try to address your issues through lifestyle changes first (I've seen your journal and you are working on that) and get some decent bloodwork to confirm what you think is going on before even contemplating this decision.
    I think Ripped has a good plan of attack. Maybe hit another full blood work makeup with those additions.
    Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

  12. #11
    Member Matt~'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Beefcake View Post
    I doubt any doctor would recommend TRT at 19yrs old. Is your coach on TRT by chance? What sports are you playing?
    Coach/Personal Trainer, no sport just nutrition and my workouts, my bad for sounding a bit misleading.
    He has competed in some big bodybuilding competitions so I assume that he has cycled but he is off season right now so not sure if TRT or off.

    Originally Posted by nightster View Post
    You could try a Clomid run.?? But yeah more blood work is key.
    Honestly I haven't heard of Clomid, will research it.

    Originally Posted by snake View Post
    I think Ripped has a good plan of attack. Maybe hit another full blood work makeup with those additions.
    Yeah I called down to my doctor and he said more bw was unnecessary.
    I'll just have to pay for a lab to do it.
    I've been looking at 2 labs websites today and they sell BW in packages like "Health-control base" that checks standard vitamins, some cholesterol etc and "Fitness" which checks stuff you want to know when your doing sports. I did try to write what some of the tests did but I'm uncertain if the translation would be correct in medical terms / the name of the bw tests.

    What do I want to have checked in the BW? I'll try to find a list but it would be great if someone else also could so that I can confirm the list of BW I have is correct.

  13. #12
    fitasfuk50's Operating System DocDePanda187123's Avatar
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    Remember to
    Get
    Your booods taken as soon as you can after waking up. If you wake up 6am get to
    The lab soon as they open. If you work
    Nights get there soon as you can after getting up from sleep.


    Also
    Your PT is an idiot. Telling you to take test to help with confidence?!?! Wtf lol.
    II==[\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\]--------
    #Strength First Boston

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  15. #13
    Member Matt~'s Avatar
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    Current Packages I'm looking into combining in order to get all the BW.
    Low testosterone:
    - PSA (Free/Total)
    - Testosterone
    - LH
    - SHBG
    - Hemoglobin
    - Leukocytes
    - Platelet Count
    - MCH
    - Hematocrit
    - Erythrocytes

    Performance Pack:
    - TSH
    - T4 Free
    - HDL Cholesterol
    - LDL Cholesterol
    - Cholesterol total
    - Triglycerides
    - Apolipoprotein A
    - Apolipoprotein B
    - HbA1C
    - Glucose
    - Cobalamin b12
    - D-vitamin
    - Homocysteine
    - Iron
    - Magnesium
    - Ferritin
    - AST
    - ALT
    - Sodium
    - Potassium
    - Calcium
    - CRP
    - Cortisol
    - C-peptide
    - IGF-1


    FSH + Estrogen (Estradiol) pack:
    - FSH
    - Estrogen Estradiol

    I tried to google all the tests to check my translation so there could possibly be some mistakes but if I take these 3 it should cover everything right?
    Or does the performance package seem like overkill?
    Last edited by Matt~; 09-19-2016 at 10:44 AM.

  16. #14
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    Originally Posted by Matt~ View Post
    Hey guys, I wanted to get your thoughts on this even if I already do believe the general consensus is going to be to hold off or just to not do it.

    I did reach out to Snake and even though I learned a lot from what he had to say I figured that I would post here in order to get everyone's opinion on this.

    Last week I had a meeting with my coach and while we were exiting the room I was talking about how I think that my testosterone levels are low (Last blood I did was 11.8 nmol/L ~~ 340 ng/dL) and that the doctor wouldn't do anything about it even though they should be at their peak now that I'm 19 even though I'm pretty fat which I've heard possibly lowers natural testosterone levels. I then proceeded to say that I might try to get another appointment with the doctor in order to get my test levels raised.
    First if I were you I'd get my lifestyle in check i.e. lose weight, correct diet and workout. Once at a healthy weight, healthy diet and good routine go get re tested. (this is assuming you're of normal - average height ect...)

    Some things you have not mentioned which would be factors for a doctor considering TRT at your age is if you have some development issues such as dwarfism, under developed genitalia ect... all of which TRT is routinely prescribed due to extenuating circumstances. Also curtain cancers, and wasting diseases and since you're overweight as you say I'd assume is not an issue. Although glandular tumors ect.. could also be an issue but further testing would be required to know and also typically come with other aforementioned symptoms than just low T.

    Underlying causes of low T should first be examined before treating symptoms of low T as TRT should be the last resort at your age because it's a life long commitment unless agin you have some other underlying causes and or your natural T production can be jump started from short term TRT (which is rare but can happen and some cases)

    I work as a researcher in a Lab where we do have a considerable amount of young people on TRT but again they have debilitating disorders, diseases, cancer or on post chemo TRT.

    Also your coach should not be suggesting medical treatments nor giving advice concerning this unless referring you to a specialist MD. As a Biophysicist working a Lab focused on hormonal research I can humbly say I nor the MD/PhD's and PhD's and MD's have a complete understanding of TRT as a whole as it effects everyone differently. No one on the forum could give you guidance on this other than to say go to a specialist Endo or Urologist (preferably get both opinions) and move forward from there. Also it's protocol in my lab that for young adults under the age of 35 to be tested several times in the morning hours over the course of a couple of months before the MD's consider TRT as a treatment. Any good indo and urologist educated on the matter will also suggest this as T levels have peaks and valleys in all humans.

    I can also confirm as many on this forum would agree many MD's unfortunately still have very little understanding of when and when not TRT is appropriate so in the end there is a catch 22 so trial and error is key. If you can find an MD/PhD actively seeing patients and involved in hormonal research that would be ideal but there are not a lot of them sad to say.
    Last edited by boriscognac; 09-20-2016 at 05:25 PM.

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  18. #15
    Elite IHI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by boriscognac View Post
    Underlying causes of low T should first be examined before treating symptoms of low T as TRT should be the last resort at your age because it's a life long commitment unless agin you have some other underlying causes and or your natural T production can be jump started from short term TRT (which is rare but can happen and some cases)
    Biggest point to highlight of this thread right here. My experience prior to getting on TRT
    1. went thru 7 doctors after I researched the shit out of low t, symptoms, other's experiences, so I could go in armed with legitimate questions and waited for proper doctor responses...the more you know, the quicker you will be able to see the idiots with a doctorate that have no business working with you and your low T problem

    2. once you find a real doctor, will probably be an endo or you may see an endo that will refer you to a more specialized endo (how mine journey went), they will put you thru a pleather of tests, you will get drained of so much blood over the next few months you think you will die from it!! not really lol, but they need large quantites of blood for all the tests that have to be performed.

    3. once they're able to see inside you, if there's any question yet as to a cause, they will begin testing. First is usually an MRI of your brain to check out your pituitary gland to make sure there is no tumor impeding proper function, if a tumor is found, then that's an avenue that will have to be pursued at that point.

    4. If, and hopefully, MRI of pituitary gland is found good to go, then they will likely begin to do 2 separate blood infusion tests to check to see how your other glands react, this is when it will most definitely show a hypogonadism and where the hold up is, brain or balls and a protocol can be tried...they may just find getting you on some Clomid to re kickstart your own body is all that it will take to get your balls working and producing test, this will last a solid 1-2 months before they recheck levels to see how your body is responding. Then they will STOP the Clomid to see if the kick start "takes", and your body is fine and working properly on it's own and hopefully, you will be good to go moving forward, hopefully.

    5. IF your body goes backwards and T levels drop after stopping clomid for a month to 2 months, THEN they will likely look into a TRT program if your quality of life sucks (the low T sides that many of us old bastards refused to accept because of the bad sides of having low T)....but for us it's a bit different. Most of us have our kids and we're in our second stage of life, so the reproduction aspect, or lack there of/inability to make more babies is a non issue. For a young man such as yourself, this is a very big deal. There are ways to work around it, but you best have a good doctor/endo that knows his stuff to sort you out for not only the now, but also the soon to be future if you one day plan to start a family.

    6. high body fat and TRT, as I've found, don't play nice. The more fat you carry, the quicker the synthetic/natural testosterone will want to convert to estrogen because it's the easy road, so honestly, even if down the road you find yourself on a trt regimon, paying attention to free test and E2 will be critical, wont do you much good to be on 100mg/week of testosterone if the majority of it converts to estrogen, which will add more fat to your layer.

    It's not an easy road, it's not a simple road, but with the right doctor, there is a way to sort yourself out one way or another...but I'm telling you, to do it 100% legit thru a doctor, you will have to have Zen like patience my friend, because it's going to be a long road, not a single visit, here's what we'll do and your fixed.

    Good luck my friend, I know how miserable I felt at 38 when this all happened to me, I wouldn't wish that on a young man at all. And on the flip side, as much benefit as I get from my TRT, there are days I really dread HAVING to be a constant pin cushion for the rest of my life. I know the pro's far outweigh the con's in my case, but I would dread being 19yrs old knowing this is how every week for the rest of my life will be, it gets to be that mundane for me at times...even though it's improved my life greatly compared to when my level was 210 and then 189.

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  20. #16
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    I studied some endocrino while I was at the university, it was just a few hours (my master is in biotech). What I can tell you is that this forum is great, for advice on bodybuilding etc. But it will never ever replace a real endocrinologist. I met some and they know a shit load of stuff. Go see one, and tell him everything, from your first visit to the doctor to this thread.

    Totally agree with IHI.

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