Not sure what to do now

Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Brief back story, a little over a year ago I tested for low T at age 29 - 30, 5'11'' 135lbs I tested at 217 and my doc recommended to an Endo which agreed to TRT. My background - I'm a post doc in Biophysics in a Lab for a (Big) US Pharmaceutical Company and admittedly against a lot of advise from some experienced trainer friends I took matters in my own hands (I do not recommend this as I 1 did my PhD in a medical school and have medical training and 2 work with MD PhD Endocrinology and Urology researchers so I had access to medical pros and labs at the drop of a hat at no cost) I was also very careful and got regular labs and physicals. My current research over the past two years is in HRT as it can relate to treatments for psychological disorders in both men and women. And collaborating on several other papers surrounding breast cancer and testicular cancer treatments.

Even though I'm still a beginner and had good results I DO NOT in anyway recommend doing what I've done starting out. My access to Medical professionals, labs, academic training and various other conditions supported safe and monitored experimentation to the tune of what I'd assume most insurance would never cover and cost thousands a month in labs and doctors visits for the average person. I also made an educated decision to be on TRT the rest of my life.

The Skinny - TLDR at bottom

First year - cycles = 16 weeks Test E 270 at 540mg per week (shot Mon and Friday) (did not need AI but had it on hand) Did not PCT - I dropped to a cruising dose of 200mg Shot of 100mg twice per week for 16 weeks after my first cycle with very low doses of Clomid then 2nd cycle did a 16 weeks of Test E and stacked Deca for 12 weeks tapering the Test E for 4 weeks to a cruising dose of 200 =16 weeks which I'm on now after my 2nd cycle and have been for 9 weeks. I also got a script from the start of Colonidine for blood pressure and give blood every three months to reduce hematocrit.

Workout = since I had no lifting experience I decided for the first 16 week cycle to do the Navy SEAL conditioning workout because my gym has a pool navyseal dot s5 dot com/workouts dot html I followed this to a T for the most part and struggled but had a good friend doing it with me and keeping me accountable. put on 40 lbs on the first cycle.

Workout = for the 16 week cruise at 200mg Test E per week I did the Starting Strength program startingstrength dot com/get-started/programs to get myself ready for my next cycle.

2nd Cycle 16 weeks Test E + Deca I modified the Starting Strength program to 6 days per week with a continuous 45 minute swim every other day in the evening.

Current cruising cycle I'm doing the Original Starting Strength on a Bulking diet adding Boxing Training on my in between days.

Diet = 1st cycle 16 weeks since I had no structured dieting experience my meal plan looked like this: Note I work in a lab so for the most part it was easy for me to Eat all day and have a full kitchen in our break room. I kept around 4500 - 6000 kcals per day my first 16 weeks and went from 135lbs to 175lbs in about 12 weeks.

Bulking (which I got from a site a little of a year ago) first 16 weeks =

Meal 1 6 egg whites/1 whole egg. 1 cup of oatmeal
Meal 2 8 oz meat choice. 2 cups of white rice ( I season with Mrs. Dash, sometimes lemon pepper) 1 medium sweet potato
Meal 3 8 oz chicken breast, 2 cups of brown rice, asparagus
Meal 4 60 gram protein shake prior to workout, cup of almonds.
Meal 5 10 oz meat 1 and 1/2 cup of brown or long grain rice, spinach salad with olive oil or balsamic v.
Meal 6 8 oz chicken or fish. 1 cup of broccoli
Meal 7 Low Fat cottage cheese or Greek yogurt with fruit added.

Cruising for 16 weeks = kept most of my gains with some loss in endurance and strength but not terribly significant

Meal 1 2.5 cups of egg whites, 1 cup of oatmeal, black coffee with one sweetener if preferred.
Meal 2 8oz chicken breast (I use Mrs. Dash seasonings) 1 cup brown rice, steamed vegetables.
Meal 3 10oz of lean meat & one medium sized sweet potato
Meal 4 I Generally make a Protein shake with water (pre workout meal)
Meal 5 10oz Chicken breast, Steamed veggie, possible quinoa.
Meal 6 10 oz Halibut or Tilapia (or whatever fish you can get, fresh is best!) Generally add greens or asparagus
Meal 7 Cottage Cheese, blueberry (or another fruit)/ or Greek Yogurt accompanied by supplements.

2nd Cycle = the above Bulking diet = 16 week Test E blast 2nd blast added Deca for 12 weeks tapering to cruising at 200mg the last 9 weeks.

TLDR

Labs = 1st cycle averaged between 2000 - 3000 test first and 2nd Blast so fully Anabolic while Cruising I averaged between 600 and 900 test I kept my blood pressure regulated with Clonidine and did a low dose of Arimidex 2nd cycle - currently on 200mg of Test E per week with a low dose of Clomid.

in 7 weeks I'm planning to do a 12 week Test E Blast and wondering what I could maybe stack on it to gain some size and strength gains. I do not want to run Tren but considering Dbol. Also want to switch up my weight training to shock my Muscles but at a loss of what type of program and diet to try for 12 weeks.

Goal 2nd year is to get to 220lbs - 10% bf and increase all lifts between 15 - 25%


First year =

Cycles 16 weeks 540 Test E
16 weeks cruising 200 Test E
16 weeks 600 Test E + Deca for 12 weeks
Past 9 weeks 200mg Test E

Starting Stats =
Age 30 - 5'11" 135lbs around 15 - 17% bf
Bench 95
Squat 105
DL 180

Current Stats =

Age 31 - 5'11" 195lbs around 12% bf
Bench 210
Squat 350
DL 375

Cruising Cycles lost 15 - 20% in Strength in lifts and 10 - 15lbs in body weight

I'd like to do another year 2 cycles stacking something different then go on a regular TRT dose of 175 to 200mg Test E for a few years with no blast after my next 2 cycles. I also plan to do TRT the rest of my life as the shots do not bother me that much. I have not injured myself yet (fingers crossed) I'm as careful as I possibly can be.

I'm guessing in my first year I put on around 25 - 30lbs of muscle maybe more - standby for pics
 
Last edited:

PillarofBalance

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
20,402
Reaction score
18,204
Points
0
I think test deca dbol would be a good next cycle. As for training I would suggest you focus mostly on strength. This will pay off in the long run in terms of building and maintaining your muscle gains.
 

DF

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
9,247
Reaction score
5,130
Points
283
Why are you running 200mg of test with clomid?
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
Points
0
I think test deca dbol would be a good next cycle. As for training I would suggest you focus mostly on strength. This will pay off in the long run in terms of building and maintaining your muscle gains.

Any good strength programs you recommend to change up and shock my muscles from the starting strength program. Obviously going to go on labs but what sorta Test E + Deca + Dbol combo would you recommend for this 3rd cycle. I'll run bloodwork after week 4.
 

PillarofBalance

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
20,402
Reaction score
18,204
Points
0
Any good strength programs you recommend to change up and shock my muscles from the starting strength program. Obviously going to go on labs but what sorta Test E + Deca + Dbol combo would you recommend for this 3rd cycle. I'll run bloodwork after week 4.

You mean doses? Run what you have run in the past and maybe 30mg of dbol for the first 4 weeks and last 4 weeks.
 

PillarofBalance

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
20,402
Reaction score
18,204
Points
0
Why are you running 200mg of test with clomid?

I've actually done this exact thing on a cruise and felt fantastic. Very even moods and libido.

It started with just wanting to bust big nuts and then noticed other benefits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DF
Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Why are you running 200mg of test with clomid?

My Androgen levels after my first and last cycle were running a little high after a few weeks of going back to 200mg a week Test E, I supplemented 1/4 of 50mg Clomid which intern reduced it. Obviously never coming off of the Test and doing full PCT it's impossible to tell what my natural T levels would return to so I use it more as a precautionary measure when my labs came back. I adjust doses accordingly but get blood done every 3 weeks when I'm on my cruising dose.
 

PillarofBalance

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
20,402
Reaction score
18,204
Points
0
My Androgen levels after my first and last cycle were running a little high after a few weeks of going back to 200mg a week Test E, I supplemented 1/4 of 50mg Clomid which intern reduced it. Obviously never coming off of the Test and doing full PCT it's impossible to tell what my natural T levels would return to so I use it more as a precautionary measure when my labs came back. I adjust doses accordingly but get blood done every 3 weeks when I'm on my cruising dose.

Not sure what you mean. I think what you meant to be taking was HCG.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Not sure what you mean. I think what you meant to be taking was HCG.

I do not need to do HCG as I'm going to be on TRT for life and no plans for kids. Androgen levels should not be high after a cycle and mine were. I was getting some slight gyno in my first cruising cycle and using Clomid at a low dose fixed that. Also its why I used a low dose of Adex on my 2nd blast.

Although HCG might be better I started with Clomid and it worked and I prefer not to mess with what is working for me.
 
Last edited:

Dex

Elite
Joined
Jun 25, 2015
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
1,277
Points
113
Do you have an injury that is holding back your bench? 5'11" 195lbs at 12% on 200mg test should be putting up 300+.
 

ToolSteel

KingOfSquat
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
5,229
Reaction score
5,653
Points
283
I do not need to do HCG as I'm going to be on TRT for life and no plans for kids. Androgen levels should not be high after a cycle and mine were. I was getting some slight gyno in my first cruising cycle and using Clomid at a low dose fixed that. Also its why I used a low dose of Adex on my 2nd blast.

Although HCG might be better I started with Clomid and it worked and I prefer not to mess with what is working for me.
The **** are you talking about
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Do you have an injury that is holding back your bench? 5'11" 195lbs at 12% on 200mg test should be putting up 300+.

No I'm being a bit careful maybe too careful but this is my first year seriously lifting so I'm progressing carefully due to being on Test
 

ToolSteel

KingOfSquat
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
5,229
Reaction score
5,653
Points
283
Not sure what you're insinuating, what part don't you understand? I'll reserve assuming, and answer specific questions
I made the statement in question bold

I'd love to hear your explanation at to why androgen levels shouldn't be high after blasting high levels of androgens.
 

PillarofBalance

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
20,402
Reaction score
18,204
Points
0
I do not need to do HCG as I'm going to be on TRT for life and no plans for kids. Androgen levels should not be high after a cycle and mine were. I was getting some slight gyno in my first cruising cycle and using Clomid at a low dose fixed that. Also its why I used a low dose of Adex on my 2nd blast.

Although HCG might be better I started with Clomid and it worked and I prefer not to mess with what is working for me.

HCG does more than possibly help with fertility. You should take a second look.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
Points
0
I made the statement in question bold

I'd love to hear your explanation at to why androgen levels shouldn't be high after blasting high levels of androgens.

Because when your androgen levels don't fall especially after a long blast which they do your body will catch up keeping your SHGB high which starts to become counter intuitive. Like any other drug your body builds a tolerance. On a cycle or blast of test your body produces more androgen receptors thus when the body reaches homeostasis from your cortisol levels increasing you plateau thus you'll require more testosterone to achieve results. If this did not happen people would just cruise on a blast and see the same gains consistently but we all know that is not the case. For some people this happens fast say 8 to 10 weeks some longer 12 - 16 weeks it depends on how your body responds. Honestly some people will respond better on Blast and cruises lasting 8 weeks on 8 off some work better on longer cycles and cruises.

Reducing your Androgen levels for a period of time and letting your body adjust appropriately then running another blast allows your tolerance to keep a steady pace thus if you're going to run gear long term your loss when you cruise is less significant over time.
 

Joliver

E-Fighter Extraordinaire
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
4,468
Reaction score
10,592
Points
288
Ah...the ole "After a while the gear don't work. Androgen receptors burnt up in the trailer fire" bro science. SHENANIGANS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Studies show supplementing test lowers cortisol. Cortisol cannot create homeostasis when, by virtue of test supplementation, is suppressed. In fact, a certain level of cortisol is needed...that's is one of the reasons why you shouldn't blast forever.

I said all of that to say this, there is no point when supraphysiological levels of test stop binding to the AR and causing transcriptional activity of the genes associated with androgenic activity. This is something new guys think because you gain 20lbs up front and then slowly (perhaps imperceptibly) gain muscle toward the end of your cycle. The first lbs (lbm...for that butthole Toolsteel) are mostly increased glycogen retention, anyway. I know this from the literature, and from years of experience being a juice monkey. If you don't believe me, rock a gram a week for a year. Your family will call the police when you show up for thanksgiving because you'll be a stranger to them.

SBGH and test are positively correlated. They always will be unless you supplement certain orals tbol,winny, drol, mesterolone, maybe a few others. It's your body's attempt to make a lipid more water soluble. Easy to trick with something that binds harder to SHBGs.

But those are just my thoughts based on scientific literature and years of personal experience--I don't got no fancy degrees or nothin'.

But don't listen to me. I've never gained 60lbs of lean mass, lost fat, AND gotten stronger in one year. You should start a Boris "ask me anything" thread. I'll sub.

Somebody ring da bell....
 
Last edited:

ToolSteel

KingOfSquat
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
5,229
Reaction score
5,653
Points
283
673353-If-video-games-were-realistic-Street-Fighter_o_25302_zps773d1ac2.jpg
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Ah...the ole "After a while the gear don't work. Androgen receptors burnt up in the trailer fire" bro science. SHENANIGANS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Studies show supplementing test lowers cortisol. Cortisol cannot create homeostasis when, by virtue of test supplementation, is suppressed. In fact, a certain level of cortisol is needed...that's is one of the reasons why you shouldn't blast forever.

I said all of that to say this, there is no point when supraphysiological levels of test stop binding to the AR and causing transcriptional activity of the genes associated with androgenic activity. This is something new guys think because you gain 20lbs up front and then slowly (perhaps imperceptibly) gain muscle toward the end of your cycle. The first lbs (lbm...for that butthole Toolsteel) are mostly increased glycogen retention, anyway. I know this from the literature, and from years of experience being a juice monkey. If you don't believe me, rock a gram a week for a year. Your family will call the police when you show up for thanksgiving because you'll be a stranger to them.

SBGH and test are positively correlated. They always will be unless you supplement certain orals tbol,winny, drol, mesterolone, maybe a few others. It's your body's attempt to make a lipid more water soluble. Easy to trick with something that binds harder to SHBGs.

But those are just my thoughts based on scientific literature and years of personal experience--I don't got no fancy degrees or nothin'.

But don't listen to me. I've never gained 60lbs of lean mass, lost fat, AND gotten stronger in one year. You should start a Boris "ask me anything" thread. I'll sub.

Somebody ring da bell....

Interesting, what is the longest cycle of test (only) you have run and type of ester.? also dose and frequency.? What gets me all agitated (in thinking) is what is the concentration/ester. Obviously I'd have to waste a lot of money per amp to test.

Hopefully I can get into a non NIH funded lab at some point and play with some stable compounds legally .

Only AMA I'd be good at is in the past 5 years I've been working on a paper in regards to regulating and or controlling Noradrenaline which is very interesting to me at least.
 
Last edited:

Cobra Strike

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
2,605
Reaction score
1,683
Points
113
Interesting, what is the longest cycle of test (only) you have run and type of ester.? also dose and frequency.? What gets me all agitated (in thinking) is what is the concentration/ester. Obviously I'd have to waste a lot of money per amp to test.

Hopefully I can get into a non NIH funded lab at some point and play with some stable compounds legally .

Only AMA I'd be good at is in the past 5 years I've been working on a paper in regards to regulating and or controlling Noradrenaline which is very interesting to me at least.

Man every post you make confuses the fk out of me. Your completely bass ackwards in your train of thought. Lets make this really easy. Erase everything you think you know about steroids and the endocrine system and start your research over from scratch. Ready, Set, Goooo
 

New Threads

Top