Testosterone dose-relationships in healthy young men

[DocDePanda187123]

Gotta get this sub forum back on track so here's the first study bitches lol


Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Dec;281(6):E1172-81.
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men.
Bhasin S1, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Bhasin D, Berman N, Chen X, Yarasheski KE, Magliano L, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Bross R, Phillips J, Sinha-Hikim I, Shen R, Storer TW.
Author information
Abstract
Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses of testosterone on body composition, muscle size, strength, power, sexual and cognitive functions, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), plasma lipids, hemoglobin, and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.
PMID: 11701431
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text

 

[stonetag]

Got a little misty reading that Doc.

 

[NbleSavage]

Mo' Test, mo' betta'

Got it

 

[DocDePanda187123]

Got a little misty reading that Doc.

I'm more than happy to come and console you Stone!

Mo' Test, mo' betta'

Got it

Bloody hell mate. Ye needs to shoot mo' test for mo' betta gains.

 

[ron1204]

u got like a dummy proof version of this? sounds interesting.

 

[BigGameHunter]

Cliffs please

 

[DocDePanda187123]

u got like a dummy proof version of this? sounds interesting.

Cliffs please

Calorie and protein intake were standardized. Fat free mass was highly dependent upon testosterone doses. Leg press strength, leg power, thigh volume, and IGF1 levels were correlated to testosterone levels. Fat mass and HDL were negatively correlated to test levels.

 

[AlphaD]

So what I am seeing is more Test and More Five Guys.................

 

[Tren4Life]

So what I am seeing is more Test and More Five Guys.................

Sounds like a perfect plan.

 

[Bro Bundy]

Test n 5 guys is the way

 

[DieYoungStrong]

So if you take more test, you get more gains? But also more side effects?

Flabbergasted over here.....

 

[gymrat827]

So the guys on the higher doses were the leanest, strongest & biggest.


This line tho...this got me "Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose."

BS. on 600mg ill hump my wives so-so, heavy friends if no other females were around for a week or so.

 

[gymrat827]

That's just your experience. That does not mean it's science.

IDK....

Ive seen lots of guys on gear, who've had a drink or 2......make very bad decisions with the ladies. Enough to create a study. If i had started my research in college, i would have tons of subjects.



On a serious note, im pretty sure there are studies n research showing when your T levels are 900+ you are seeking more sex, have a temper or elevated temperament (flares n generally just on edge) then naturally.

 

[John Ziegler]

All you rich dudes and your 5 guy's.

In & Out Double Double animal style chocolate shake & fries are half the price.

Fukk that big bag of fries and free peanut's!

 

[MrRippedZilla]

Full paper: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.long

Time for the break down...

Methodology

We've got 61 guys with "lifting experience" divided into 5 groups with different weekly doses of Test e - 25mg, 50mg, 125mg, 300mg and 600mg. For the purposes of this discussion, we really only care about the 125mg, 300mg and 600mg groups.

The study spanned 40 weeks and this involved a 20 week treatment period & 16 weeks for recovery BUT the bloodwork data only shows baseline and week 16 levels.

Baseline characteristics can be found here but we're talking about guys in their mid-late 20s, Test levels around 553-654ng/dl and 1RM leg press numbers around 355-431kg - this should give you an idea of how much "lifting experience" these guys have but we're clearly not dealing with newbies. Those 1RM numbers were taken twice within 7 days with proper warm up to ensure accuracy.

Diet consisted of 36 cals/kg (16.4 cals/lb) and protein at 1.2g/kg (0.55g/lb) body weight per day. So, again, we're dealing with maintenance level calories and insufficient protein intake.

Subjects were asked NOT to perform any type of strength training during the entire study.
This was done to avoid the potentially confounding influence that intense physical activity might have on the dependent variables and means that, once again, we have a study that involves AAS and no training...keep that in mind when you see the results.


Results

Body comp results can be found here but the gist of it is this:
- 25mg group gained fat and lost muscle while the 50mg group just got fat (that's what being hypogonadal does for you).
- 125mg group gained a bit of muscle (depending on whether the measurement was via underwater weighing or dexa) and fat mass didn't change significantly.
- 300mg group gained more muscle (5.3-5.5kg) and lost a bit of fat (0.5-0.9kg).
- 600mg group gained even more muscle (7.9-8.9kg) and lost more fat (1.1-2kg).
- The ratio of total body water to fat-free mass didn't change much in any of the groups, indicating that the increases in FFM was not just water retention.
- There was a huge amount of inter-individual differences that made most of this data statistically weak, in other words don't put too much stock into the actual figures. More on this later.

Hormone data can be found here but the the important points to keep in mind are (taken during week 16 of the 20 week cycle, 1 week after the last Test e injection):
- 25 and 50 mg of Test per week didn't replace what the GnRH had shut down, 125 mg/week was basically TRT, 300 mg and 600 mg/week led to ~2-4x baseline levels.
- Average TT of 570ng/dl for the 125mg group, 1345ng/dl for 300mg & 2370/ng/dl for 600mg.
- IGF-1 increased only in the top 2 groups from 314>388ng/ml for the 300mg group and 227>304/ng/ml for the 600mg group.
- The huge inter-individual differences continue here.

Leg press strength increased in all groups from 50mg up as seen here, which is interesting and does add credence to the notion that you don't need to add mass to get stronger.

Mood level, PSA, sexual function and visual-spatial cognition changes were insignificant across the board although both sexual activity & desire was trending down in the 25mg group (not surprising).

The final key results can be found here with the key points being:
- Hemoglobin increased with higher test doses, topping out at an average of 155.7g/l (still normal) or a 9.9% increase.
- Dose dependent increases in HDL-C of around 5-8mg/dl or 10-20% once doses were above 125mg.
- Total cholesterol, LDL, and triglyceride levels did not change significantly at any dose.

2 in 25mg group, 5 in 50mg, 3 in 125mg, 7 in 300mg and 2 in 600mg group developed acne.

1 man receiving the 50-mg dose reported decreased ability to achieve erections.


Discussion & take home points

Honestly, this study leaves more questions then answers and I'm quoting the researchers themselves to explain exactly why this is the case:

"Although mean change in fat-free mass and muscle size correlated with testosterone dose and concentration, there was considerable heterogeneity in response to testosterone administration within each group. These individual differences in response to androgen administration might reflect differences in activity level, testosterone metabolism, nutrition, or polymorphisms in androgen receptor, myostatin, 5-a-reductase, or other muscle growth regulators."

Translated, this means people react differently to the same dose of test and its foolish to try and predict what results, sides, numbers or anything else they may get - everyone is indeed a little different and the results here shouldn't be taken as law.
Considering some of the critics of scientific data have claimed that it doesn't consider the fact that not everyone will react the same, well, wrong - good researchers make it very clear when people react differently to whatever is being tested. However, I would've liked to have seen the individual data points to figure out exactly how big a difference there really was - that's my main criticism as far as what was left out is concerned.

More test does indeed equal more gains.
Forbes predicted back in 1985 that muscle gain during androgen use was directly related to the total dosing & treatment duration and this paper certainly supports that prediction.

More test also equals more RBC production and HDL-C - 2 things to keep an eye on.

Finally, this is the second paper we've seen now showing incredible gains with ZERO training. Again, as hard as it is to believe that you can sit on your ass, inject test, and grow...well...you can.

 

[Slzy54]

Go big to get big. Up the test