The effects of supraphysiological doses of testosterone on muscle size and strength in normal men

MrRippedZilla

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Just thought of another point; mot every study I've seen also pins once a week, vs the 2x/wk commonly recommended.
Notable difference in peak plasma levels.

That's actually a good point but keep in mind that most of the literature is taking blood work 1 week after the last injection of Test e (in this & the other study doc posted's case) in order to reflect lowest levels, not peak, after an injection. So we don't actually know the peak in this particular case either.

The researchers have also been well aware of the fluctuations associated with weekly injections since 1980 but don't seem to be fussed about it so...annoying, but it is what it is.

This is an interesting read because I was just browsing a different forum that was making an argument for recommending 400mg on a first timer cycle per week (split into 2 doses) versus the standard 500 that is frequently touted.

Recommending 400mg per week to newbies (Frontloaded) with an additional shot of 275mg on day one for a total of an 8 week cycle. Plotted like this:

Edit: I tried to attach the graph and plot but the system wont allow me to because I have less than 25 posts

Link is^^^^^^i.imgur.com/jTP7i0z.png

Edit: Ok there we go just copy and paste the link starting with imgur

Well, we have scientific research beyond the 600mg idea and, unless his post was referenced, some bro on a board advocating 400mg = who do you think is a more reliable source of information? (hint: read the rules)

Beyond that, I don't have much interest diving into the idea :)
 
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Well, we have scientific research beyond the 600mg idea and, unless his post was referenced, some bro on a board advocating 400mg = who do you think is a more reliable source of information? (hint: read the rules)

Beyond that, I don't have much interest diving into the idea :)

Thanks for your response. I have read several of your threads but have never heard you speak on the topic of frontloading
 
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ANd after reading thousands of threads (me myself) I have never heard anyone speak about frontloading when it comes to a first timer cycle

If I had to choose between taking hepatoxic dianabol for the first 4 weeks versus frontloading the Test-E it seems to me that the frontlaoding would be safer especailly for a first timer cycle
 
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Surgery looks inevitable for me at this point for my shoulder after Thursdays bad PT. Was just going to run my scribed dose for the next yr until I can jump back in the game, but now thinking, hell, maybe continue with plan to try a blast, continue plan to focus on core/legs, and see what happens. He'll if I can stay the same size up top even though I wont be able to workout for about a yr, maybe it would prevent atrophy (sp?)

I personally think that would be a waste of drugs and you would be introducing toxicity into your body for very marginal improvement. I have read stories galore of men who where in very good shape and physique and then had a car accident or other tragedy and where bed bound for 3 months or more (and could not train). And then when they healed up and got back to training they where able to get back to their old form in a very short time.

Just look at Christian Bale and how he went down to 120lbs for his role in the movie "THe Machinist" and then bulked up in just a few weeks to play a buff and ripped Batman.
 

MrRippedZilla

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Thanks for your response. I have read several of your threads but have never heard you speak on the topic of frontloading

I find the overall benefits of frontloading questionable and certainly don't recommend it for beginners - making things more complicated, with potentially harder to deal with side effects, for marginal benefit is not the goal of a 1st cycle.
Also I don't care how much frontloading is involved, 400mg isn't going to produce the gains of 600mg.

Beyond that, I suggest starting a separate thread on the topic so that others can also give you their opinions on the matter.
 

ken Sass

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dose seems to be so person specific but i dont get much more out of1 gram than i do out of 600mgj just more sides. it is definitely not double the benefits of a gram over 500mg
 
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How do you guys feel about tapered in doses and tapered off doses such as

week 1 250
week 2 300
week 3 400

&&&&&

week 11 200
week 12 100

I noticed that in the book Anabolics 10th edition by LLewelyn

The tapered in provides "periodization" effect I was assuming and the tapering off assists the body to adjust less violently to the huge cold turkey drop in exogenous testosterone. Am I understanding this correctly? THe amount of scientific studies are limited. And the forums I am reading and cycle logs of people are mostly all following the same cookie cutter mold. So how can we know that this is the best approach? How will we ever know until somebody tries something different? And especially when it comes to "first timer cycles" since we only get one attempt at a first timer cycle.
 

gymrat827

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How do you guys feel about tapered in doses and tapered off doses such as

week 1 250
week 2 300
week 3 400

&&&&&

week 11 200
week 12 100

I noticed that in the book Anabolics 10th edition by LLewelyn

The tapered in provides "periodization" effect I was assuming and the tapering off assists the body to adjust less violently to the huge cold turkey drop in exogenous testosterone. Am I understanding this correctly? THe amount of scientific studies are limited. And the forums I am reading and cycle logs of people are mostly all following the same cookie cutter mold. So how can we know that this is the best approach? How will we ever know until somebody tries something different? And especially when it comes to "first timer cycles" since we only get one attempt at a first timer cycle.

dumb idea.

Just go X dose the whole run. All this taper up, frontload, etc isnt going to make much, if any difference.

1st runs should be 400-600mg, pin twice a wk & run 12wks.

pct starts 2wks later on cyp/enth, or 2 days later on prop/TPP
 

automatondan

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How do you guys feel about tapered in doses and tapered off doses such as

week 1 250
week 2 300
week 3 400

&&&&&

week 11 200
week 12 100

I noticed that in the book Anabolics 10th edition by LLewelyn

The tapered in provides "periodization" effect I was assuming and the tapering off assists the body to adjust less violently to the huge cold turkey drop in exogenous testosterone. Am I understanding this correctly? THe amount of scientific studies are limited. And the forums I am reading and cycle logs of people are mostly all following the same cookie cutter mold. So how can we know that this is the best approach? How will we ever know until somebody tries something different? And especially when it comes to "first timer cycles" since we only get one attempt at a first timer cycle.

Remember a couple days ago when Zilla asked you to start your own thread.....?
 
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Remember a couple days ago when Zilla asked you to start your own thread.....?

The system wont let me create a new thread because I have fewer than 25 posts. Thats why I am asking on here.

SO nobody here agrees with tapered off doses?
 

MrRippedZilla

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The system wont let me create a new thread because I have fewer than 25 posts. Thats why I am asking on here.

SO nobody here agrees with tapered off doses?

Tapering up/down isn't necessary and counterproductive (less overall dose = less gains). 600mg all the way works just fine.
 

PillarofBalance

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The system wont let me create a new thread because I have fewer than 25 posts. Thats why I am asking on here.

SO nobody here agrees with tapered off doses?

No man tapering is like 1980's cycling method. It's pointless. Even on 100mg per week you are suppressed. Suppressed is suppressed. Tapering does nothing.
 

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