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  1. #1
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    Programs with strength progression AND bodybuilding elements?

    Hey everyone,

    I'm currently running Layne Norton's PHAT and have been for a while. I'm thinking of switching up my program because I've been platued for a while and want to focus on getting my lifts back up, and PHAT doesn't have a set progression really. I'm looking for something that has strength progression built in (ie after running one cycle of the program you max again and see some strength gains), but also some bodybuilding elements as that's my ultimate goal. Basically, powerbuilding.

    I've been thinking of doing Jacked and Tan 2.0 (if anyone has done this let me know your thoughts), or maybe one of Jonnie Candito's programs. I've done 5/3/1 BBB before but wasn't a fan.


    Any ideas?


  2. #2
    fitasfuk50's Operating System DocDePanda187123's Avatar
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    Pillar is gonna be in here any minute now to warn you about maxing too often. You want to spend your time building strength not constantly showing it.

    Candito to has some pretty decent stuff but it all depends where you're at. What are your stats and numbers like? You're going to spend a lot of your time in the 70-85% range on your specific lifts if you're serious about gaining strength. Constantly maxing out a la Westside style just isn't the best way to go about things IMO.
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    I actually haven't maxed in a very long time, those are just rough estimates based on my current rep maxes. I just know that at the end of a lot of program's cycles they max so that you can see the difference in strength you gained. I'm not looking to max every week, working 70-85% zone is exactly what I'm looking for.

    Stats: 5'5", 19yrs old, natural, 150lbs. BP ~245-250, DL ~330, Front Squat ~245, back squat = ****ed (lower back pain, going to try and fix it by moving my way up from 135lbs focusing on form).

    My highest lifts were end of last winter; BP ~250-260, DL ~380-390, Squat ~345-350

  4. #4
    Administrator PillarofBalance's Avatar
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    Grab one of the sheiko templates floating around online. Sheiko 29 is a good place to start. You will do a shitload of volume in the 70 to 80% range and will blow up. So will your lifts.
    Rest in Peace Robot Lord. First round of Natty Boh is on me when I make it up there with you brother.

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    Elite snake's Avatar
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    I think there's a good chance you need less of Norton, Candito and what ever the fuuk PHAT is and more Squat, Bench and Dead lift. As for Jacked and Tan 2.0, I'm so old, I have been running that program when it was in it's Beta format.

    Start thinking outside the Cube and find out what works best for you. That will take you to the next level my friend.
    Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snake View Post
    I think there's a good chance you need less of Norton, Candito and what ever the fuuk PHAT is and more Squat, Bench and Dead lift. As for Jacked and Tan 2.0, I'm so old, I have been running that program when it was in it's Beta format.

    Start thinking outside the Cube and find out what works best for you. That will take you to the next level my friend.
    Good advice. I'm going to take a deload next week, and cut out a lot of the extra volume and accessory work, and really focus on bench / squat / deadlift instead of the accessories.

    Just wondering, how are you like J&T 2.0? I've heard really good things about it, and the guy who created it seems like a smart dude.

  8. #7
    Senior Member tinymk's Avatar
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    No one program will fit with everyone. My advise is try em all and take the stuff that worked for you and continue to use it and flush the rest. I have touched into most programs being 25+ years as a powerlifter. I take the parts of each program that I felt worked well and I keep em. Now I train instinctive but have several elements/ concepts of several programs in my workouts.
    Best raw lifts on the platform
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinymk View Post
    No one program will fit with everyone. My advise is try em all and take the stuff that worked for you and continue to use it and flush the rest. I have touched into most programs being 25+ years as a powerlifter. I take the parts of each program that I felt worked well and I keep em. Now I train instinctive but have several elements/ concepts of several programs in my workouts.
    Yeah this makes sense. Ive kind of already done that a little bit as I've found programs with a mix of strength type training and traditional Bodybuilding training work the best for me, and are the most enjoyable for me.

  11. #9
    Veteran DieYoungStrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinymk View Post
    No one program will fit with everyone. My advise is try em all and take the stuff that worked for you and continue to use it and flush the rest. I have touched into most programs being 25+ years as a powerlifter. I take the parts of each program that I felt worked well and I keep em. Now I train instinctive but have several elements/ concepts of several programs in my workouts.
    Quote Originally Posted by UrogenitalSubsect View Post
    Yeah this makes sense. Ive kind of already done that a little bit as I've found programs with a mix of strength type training and traditional Bodybuilding training work the best for me, and are the most enjoyable for me.
    Just don't knock a program until you give it an honest run. Nothing will make you go nowhere fast like program hopping.
    A Strength First Athlete
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  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PillarofBalance View Post
    Grab one of the sheiko templates floating around online. Sheiko 29 is a good place to start. You will do a shitload of volume in the 70 to 80% range and will blow up. So will your lifts.
    Do you know if there's any 4 day sheiko templates? 3 days a week wouldn't be enough for me, I prefer to be in the gym more days than not

  13. #11
    Veteran DieYoungStrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrogenitalSubsect View Post
    Do you know if there's any 4 day sheiko templates? 3 days a week wouldn't be enough for me, I prefer to be in the gym more days than not
    Well...run sheiko for a few months and see if you still feel the same. You can do some conditioning on the off days.
    A Strength First Athlete
    Bostin Lloyd would shit synthol if he deadlifted with me! - Jol
    E-fukking is jacking off minus the porn...

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  15. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieYoungStrong View Post
    Just don't knock a program until you give it an honest run. Nothing will make you go nowhere fast like program hopping.
    I've been one to do this in the past, so I always make sure to try and give everything a good run first before switching.

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