35yo first cycle. Critique

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Hi guys! I'm a 35yo, semi-serious ironthrower. Currently 6'3" 260, 52c, 36w, 17.5a. Been having my test checked and I am "low normal," higher in the AM and low by the end of the day, when I usually workout after work. My training partner is, lets say, an experienced user and suggested a short, simple cycle.

His suggestion:
10 weeks
500mg test
400 tren per week
1mg armidex every other day
36 tabs clomid PCT

Whereas he is a "bigger is better", I'm really not looking to add too much size, just mostly tone up and "break the plateau" I seem to have hit. I'd also like to prevent side effects as much as possible, mostly hair loss and potential long term changes to test levels.

It seems to me that the suggested dose for test to prevent hair loss is 350mg, would tren need to be cycled down as well? Are there any other compounds that would be more beneficial for these goals?
 

Robdjents

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Welcome to the ug...most guys here are gonna say go with test only first. And why 1mg Adex eod?...I aromatize like a 14 year old girl and I only use about 1.5mg a week...also you should grab some nolva to go with that pct...read some stickies and again welcome to the board
 

Jin

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Semi-serious and tren don’t mix.

Test only. 14-16 weeks.

read the stickies.

Welcome aboard.
 

snake

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Rob+ Jin for the win!

And unless you have a history of MPB, 16 weeks of a test only should not do anything to your hair line. Welcome aboard.
 
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Thanks for the input guys.

I'm not sure at what point tren becomes helpful. I'm a pretty dedicated gym goer but sometimes my job wears me out.

Would 350mg suffice for a test only cycle or is a higher dose recommended?
 

Trump

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Thanks for the input guys.

I'm not sure at what point tren becomes helpful. I'm a pretty dedicated gym goer but sometimes my job wears me out.

Would 350mg suffice for a test only cycle or is a higher dose recommended?
500mg per week would be a better dose I think. Tren will come into play several cycles down the line if it does at all. Only use one injectable first cycle see how you react, I made the mistake of listening to friends at the gym and ended up a fat mess. Listen to the guys in here and read the first cycle sticky and you will find what you need. Any questions or things your unsure of just ask and someone here will have the answer. Good luck
 

motown1002

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Welcome aboard. Not to trash your "experienced" partner, but his suggested FIRST cycle is a little crazy. First of all, your first cycle should be test only. Why? You will understand how your body responds. If you add in others and experience some not so pleasant sides, how will you know which one is causing it. Second, Tren is a little ways down the road in cycling. Tren is a much harsher compound. Second cycle would be test and deca. I wouldn't throw tren in the mix until maybe third or fourth cycle. Third, ten weeks is a little short for a test cycle. I would go 14-16 weeks as Jin said. And like Rob said your dex is too much. You don't want to crash your E2.

Curious how you know your test levels am and pm? You get it tested in the morning and the afternoon the same day?
 

gymrat827

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Semi-serious and tren don’t mix.

Test only. 14-16 weeks.

read the stickies.

Welcome aboard.


THIS>>>

Dont touch tren for a while, 500mg for tes. Standard procedure, just jump and and let us know how it goes. Make sure to enough AI/PCT ready to go.
 
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Makes perfect sense. I was wary of the tren from the start. My friend is "experienced" as in he's been cycling on other compounds for years with constant Test all year around. He's giant for his size but a bit bigger than I like. He apparently used that as a first cycle with one of our friends and got "good results," although again, too big for my tastes. I've already had custom suits made, and that would be expensive to redo!

I did get blood tests in the AM and PM; total free test seems to vary between 200-530 over the course of a day. I don't really want to totally suppress natural test completely, just augment a little.
 

BRICKS

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Good advice above, 500mg week test only, leave the tren alone for now. But I didn't see anybody mention looking into getting some labs and seeing somebody about possibly needing TRT. If that's the case, then you may be pleasantly surprised at how much correcting you test to normal or high normal levels will do for you after having low test. Something to consider.
 
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Good advice above, 500mg week test only, leave the tren alone for now. But I didn't see anybody mention looking into getting some labs and seeing somebody about possibly needing TRT. If that's the case, then you may be pleasantly surprised at how much correcting you test to normal or high normal levels will do for you after having low test. Something to consider.

I did, we discussed it. He feels that being within "normal" is all you need to be. And he didn't feel it was necessary due to my development and no ED. That seems to be the key for being prescribed medical test, ED. I also have heard that malpractice insurance co. are cracking down on prescriptions without definable medical need and I don't think "I want to perform better in the gym" is a medical need for test unless I showed a constant <250 ng/dl. I know my brother is an OBGYN and used to be able to write me whatever I wanted, but now he's limited to basic antibiotics for fear of it being "flagged."
 

BRICKS

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What was your total test? Many family practice docs (general practitioners) don't really want to mess with it at all because it's not an area they're well versed in. Just because you are within the normal range doesn't mean that is optimal for you and your lifestyle. There are plenty of trt and anti aging clinics where I'm sure if your levels are on the low end you may find help. My advice would be to find another doc for this, depending on your levels. That's what I had to do.
 

Jin

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I did get blood tests in the AM and PM; total free test seems to vary between 200-530 over the course of a day. I don't really want to totally suppress natural test completely, just augment a little.

Doesn't work like that. Any exogenous test will shut your natural production down. It’s one or the other. Not additive.
 

HollyWoodCole

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You are at least very level headed it seems.

You don't typically want to run more than test on your first cycle to see how your body reacts to test alone. I certainly would not suggest tren for a first cycle. You will combat the sides as they arise if any and you'll get to know your body better. Once you establish baselines of what you're comfortable with and how much AI you need for test only, add one compound to the test at a time in later cycles and deal with those sides. Because everyone is different we can give you guidelines on where to start but your ultimate dosages of what you need for each added compound may vary to some degree.

Welcome to the Underground, and good luck. It would be worth your time to read the stickies, you'll learn a great deal and we can help answer questions along the way.
 

Chillinlow

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Everyone’s slacking:

first whats your diet like?
how long you been lifting ?
Get these on point first or never will keep your gains matter what cycle you run.
 
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I am brushing up on this. Its come a long way since I last investigated this stuff.

Diet is 80%. Pretty clean, just breakfast is sometimes a protein bar on the run, and lunch is sometimes with co-workers. I work weird hours at a desk and alot of social engagements so it could be better, but we're only here once.

Lifting since I was 21 serious, sporadically before that.

I understand that you won't keep everything under the best scenario, this is just a dipping of the toe in the water. I just checked and as far as I can tell my current insurance doesn't cover HRT anyway but for a narrow scope of cases so even if I get my doctor to prescribe, its still coming out my pocket. I'm not opposed to taking baby steps versus my friend saying, "You can play around with just Test or you can take my cycle and get jacked in 10 weeks."

My aforementioned friend is hardcore, but you can be hardcore when you're single, work a regular job, and eschew any social engagement that doesn't involve a gym or a video game. I greatly respect the dedication that it takes to have a phenomenal male body; its a full time job in and of itself. I try to remain dedicated but life gets in the way sometimes. I think in order to maximize this cycle, if I end up doing it, I will put some more effort into the planning. Like I said at the beginning, I feel like its plateaued somewhat and I'm just looking for a push to get over it.
 

BRICKS

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Don't believe "jacked in 10 weeks" brother. Just nope. Good that you take your time and learn as much as possible. Be nice to have that script, but if you don't, the link Hollywood posted above is an excellent starting point. Just keep this in mind. Once you start this you may HAVE to have a script for trt down the road.
 
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I am brushing up on this. Its come a long way since I last investigated this stuff.

Diet is 80%. Pretty clean, just breakfast is sometimes a protein bar on the run, and lunch is sometimes with co-workers. I work weird hours at a desk and alot of social engagements so it could be better, but we're only here once.

Lifting since I was 21 serious, sporadically before that.

I understand that you won't keep everything under the best scenario, this is just a dipping of the toe in the water. I just checked and as far as I can tell my current insurance doesn't cover HRT anyway but for a narrow scope of cases so even if I get my doctor to prescribe, its still coming out my pocket. I'm not opposed to taking baby steps versus my friend saying, "You can play around with just Test or you can take my cycle and get jacked in 10 weeks."

My aforementioned friend is hardcore, but you can be hardcore when you're single, work a regular job, and eschew any social engagement that doesn't involve a gym or a video game. I greatly respect the dedication that it takes to have a phenomenal male body; its a full time job in and of itself. I try to remain dedicated but life gets in the way sometimes. I think in order to maximize this cycle, if I end up doing it, I will put some more effort into the planning. Like I said at the beginning, I feel like its plateaued somewhat and I'm just looking for a push to get over it.

Being married with kids and working 50-60 hours a week, I totally get what you’re saying. Whether you’re super dedicated or not, life can have a way of changing your plans real quick when you're responsible for the lives of others. I don’t believe there’s any such thing as jacked in 10 weeks so don’t listen to that. There’s nothing wrong with being on trt and if you’re in the lower range I’m certain there are clinics in your area (or even online-defy medical comes to mind) that will treat you outside of insurance. It’s not that costly. And frankly, the insurance companies dictate your levels, not based on how you feel but by some arbitrary number. I went on at age 36, my total test was 405 and free test was nonexistent. According to insurance, that was fine. Well according to me it wasn’t.

But as far as a cycle goes, it’s pretty easy. Test only for 12-16 weeks and enjoy the ride. Get on trt or do a pct (your levels more than likely will not return to where you are now, but everyone is different). Have an ai on hand, do bloodwork during the cycle, and eat like a mofo.
 

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