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Thread: Deca vs. NPP

  1. #13
    Member Aoutest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyWoodCole View Post
    NPP is pinned twice a week as well.
    No it's not. The Phenylpropionate ester is injected eod at the outside edge to keep blood levels stable.

    I've run 875 Test with 525 NPP for 15 weeks and am now running 875 Test with 525 Deca and am in about week 7. The Decanoate ester takes longer to saturate but in my experience it's really not that big if a difference despite the half life calculation and the release rates.

    There is also some talk that NPP is less "bloaty" than Deca but that has not been my experience at all. As long as my E2 is dialed in, I'm lean on NPP and Deca - No moon face.

    My protocol is 200mg Test with 150mg Deca/Nand eod regardless of the ester. I use slin pins because they are easy and rotate between delts and lats.

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    Veteran DieYoungStrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoutest View Post
    No it's not. The Phenylpropionate ester is injected eod at the outside edge to keep blood levels stable.

    I've run 875 Test with 525 NPP for 15 weeks and am now running 875 Test with 525 Deca and am in about week 7. The Decanoate ester takes longer to saturate but in my experience it's really not that big if a difference despite the half life calculation and the release rates.

    There is also some talk that NPP is less "bloaty" than Deca but that has not been my experience at all. As long as my E2 is dialed in, I'm lean on NPP and Deca - No moon face.

    My protocol is 200mg Test with 150mg Deca/Nand eod regardless of the ester. I use slin pins because they are easy and rotate between delts and lats.
    You can pin NPP or TPP or any other PP ester 2x a week and be just fine. "Stable" blood levels are very overrated and played up on the boards. It's not like you're going to 0. Stable levels matter for guys on trt.
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    I personally look at it like this... they're both the same. If you're looking for a hit and quit then NPP is the better choice. If youre worried about sides NPP is the better choice. Deca takes more planning. Now for the given scenario there is a significant amount of time on the front end waiting for the deca to really grip and take hold. Now of course you will see benefits on the back end of the cycle, but you'll see those same benefits with the NPP. I think NPP is an easier compound to cycle with over all. You will get more active peak time with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DieYoungStrong View Post
    Deca vs NPP for PCT guys doesn't make a huge difference IMO. It's the nandralone itself that shuts your nuts down hard. You just have to wait longer and stay on some test on the back-end while the deca clears. I think you should do this with NPP too. I actually had this discussion with Dr Scally on Meso years ago - it's the hormone not the ester when it comes to 19-nors shutting you down so hard. So PCT guys - don't think NPP is a "safe" alternative to deca. Both will shut you down just as hard, and have the same risks of making you a trt for life guy. Just deca will shut you down longer. You can recover from both if you time PCT right. I will agree that the shorter amount of time you are shut down, the better your chances of a successful recovery are, and that would lend itself more the NPP....I guess. I ran a bunch of deca cycles with successful PCT in my early days.
    You raise some interesting points.

    I agree that 19-nors in general are more difficult to recover from vs other AAS forms but that doesn't really change the fact that Deca is a bigger pain in the ass than NPP. Dr Scally himself will admit that dosage used + time on are the 2 key factors in determining the chances of recovery. Well, if Deca hangs around for longer..recovery should be more difficult.

    To go on a bit of a tangent, I want to point out some interesting data with TRT patients.
    Test E vs Test U (Nebido or Aveed depending on where you live). Looking at how effective these 2 forms of T are as male contraceptives. Again, if the ester makes a difference to how "hard" your balls are shut down then this should be reflected in semen parameters.
    200mg Test E per week, over the course of 12 months lead to 58% of subjects becoming azoospermic in a 1990 study. This was redone in 1996 with a large group of subjects and the azoospermic rate was 75%.
    Now, Test U. 500mg per month for 6 months in 2003 lead to a 96% azoospermic rate. The study was repeated by a different group in 2009, with a much large (1000+) group of subjects over 30 months, and again found a 96% azoospermic rate.
    As we can see, the longer ester makes a huge difference in the level of shut down when it comes to Test and I don't see why it would be different for any other form of AAS.

    My point: an argument can be made for avoiding long acting anabolics altogether if the goal is to maximize the chances of recovery and stick to the PCT route. I'm not necessarily making that argument, just saying that this viewpoint would be valid. With 19-nors in particular, outside of avoiding them altogether, it makes sense to me to go with the shortest acting version to maximize the chances of PCT working
    Last edited by MrRippedZilla; 12-04-2018 at 05:57 PM.
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    Jin and Snake, I think you guys both require two different answers based on your questions. Ok, first of all there debate from what I can tell has nothing to do about recovery but more to the tune of results oriented using one vs the other over an 8 week period using same dose of each. But Jin is more about the results during and at the end of the 8 week period, and from what I see Snake is more about the results not only during the 8 week period, but the carry over after 8 weeks. Well, my opinion is their both correct to a degree. You will see results using both esters over an 8 week period, but to Jins point I feel you will result in higher "quality" muscle tissue gain with NPP over Deca with those 8 weeks because it does kick in and peaks much faster. Now Snake also has a point because after 8 weeks of termination the slower acting deca will stay with you longer. My issue here is these two esters serve two very different purposes.

    It has always been felt that Deca is a better choice for strength and mass gains over a longer period of time and that's solely because it was mostly used at higher doses during bulking periods. That's mostly your reason why deca is known for more water retention. higher doses, longer term administration, usually used during a bulk.

    NPP was known to cause less water retention mostly because it was used at lower doses, and because its shorter half life, it would appear to aromatize less. In many cases guys used it also as an addition to a pre contest stack. Today I notice guys using using NPP alot differently than in the past.
    Last edited by Seeker; 12-04-2018 at 06:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
    Jin and Snake, I think you guys both require two different answers based on your questions. Ok, first of all there debate from what I can tell has nothing to do about recovery but more to the tune of results oriented using one vs the other over an 8 week period using same dose of each. But Jin is more about the results during and at the end of the 8 week period, and from what I see Snake is more about the results not only during the 8 week period, but the carry over after 8 weeks. Well, my opinion is their both correct to a degree. You will see results using both esters over an 8 week period, but to Jins point I feel you will result in higher "quality" muscle tissue gain with NPP over Deca with those 8 weeks because it does kick in and peaks much faster. Now Snake also has a point because after 8 weeks of termination the slower acting deca will stay with you longer. My issue here is these two esters serve two very different purposes.

    It has always been felt that Deca is a better choice for strength and mass gains over a longer period of time and that's solely because it was mostly used at higher doses during bulking periods. That's mostly your reason why deca is known for more water retention. higher doses, longer term administration, usually used during a bulk.

    NPP was known to cause less water retention mostly because it was used at lower doses, and because its shorter half life, it would appear to aromatize less. In many cases guys used it also as an addition to a pre contest stack. Today I notice guys using using NPP alot differently than in the past.
    There are a few good points brought out in this thread but I think Seeker hit the nail on the head. If you look at my original post he addressed both angles.



    In general, it seems like Deca would produce about the same results over the long haul but NPP is going to hit quicker and you will be at peak saturation for a longer period of time. Again, no one is suggesting an 8 week Deca cycle is optimal.

    I thought about this even when I wrote up my original post, who would bang 800mg/wk of NPP anyway? But I didn't consider what Seek was saying about the bad wrap Deca got and why at the time. Higher doses of a compound can lead to more sides and he's right, it's not apples to apples when they speak about NPP dosed at 500 mgs and Deca being dosed at 800 mgs.

    Thanks for the well thought out post Seek!
    Last edited by snake; 12-05-2018 at 08:22 AM.
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