The protein debate

[snake]

For all the iron vets who just said, "Oh fuuk, here we go again" hear me out.

The number that's always thrown around that the body can digest is anywhere between 35-50 grams of protein in a 4 hr period. For argument sake, let's go with that and factor in a good nights rest when you are not eating. Then that means a person can only make use of 140-200 grams a day and over that, it is stored or disposed of depending on who you talk to.

Using even the top end of 200 grams of protein, that would imply that everyone would have a maximum potential of 200 grams. Here's where it doesn't pass the sniff test for me. All things being equal with training, rest and proper diet, that would put a ceiling on everyone. So the taller guys could only build the same amount of muscle as a shorter guy could. You would think a 5-4" guy would be much more massive then a 6'-4 guy but just not the case.

I know there's other factors that go into building muscle and I am over simplifying this but damn, on the surface it just doesn't add up in the real world.

Okay, have at it!

 

[Spongy]

them protein farts tho...

I'll see if i can dig up some research somewhere...

 

[snake]

I'll see if i can dig up some research somewhere...

Okay but don't let the facts get in the way of my BS though. lol

 

[Straight30weight]

I'd like to see responses as well

 

[MrRippedZilla]

I've discussed this briefly before and I don't think me going for full Zilla mode would really change the crux of the "debate": https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/23998-How-to-interpret-research-part-III-Protein

It's nonsense thrown around by people who read scientific data but don't know how to interpret it. Then it gets regurgitated and spreads all over the place. Basically, what was already explained, after being brought up by you, here: https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/26901-regurgitated-research

Not that I'm trying to let any of this stuff get in the way of a good old fashioned mental wankfest. By all means, have at it

 

[Gadawg]

MrRippedZilla brings up something in that second thread that has always driven me bananas. Somewhere along the way somebody must have done some sort of bogus ass study about the amount of protein that can be processed/absorbed per meal. The number of 30 grams has been brought up many times.

That "fact" should seem ridoculous to everybody. After all we evolved as hunter gatherers. We wouldnt have made it if we were limited in the amount of meat we could actually use. Hell, there are people on the carnivore diet that eat one time per day. That number would suggest that out of the 4 lbs of steak that they are eating in that meal, they are only able to use about 6.6 percent of it.

Id imagine a similar study proposed this 1 gram per pound thing and it became gospel.

While I have no data to prove this, I have seen mo difference in myself whether I make absolutely sure to get those numbers in or whether I just make sure to get some protein in at every meal. Total calories seems to be a much bigger factor.

Your results may vary

 

[John Ziegler]

am wondering if those numbers vary from time to time

there are a lot of factors more than likely not calculated into the study equations

like what amount of exercise was done prior and on the days leading up to ingesting the protein

how many steroids someone is using & whether its regular food or protein drink protein

if the person banged a lot of chicks recently

like Dan Bilzerian

 

[Straight30weight]

Id imagine a similar study proposed this 1 gram per pound thing and it became gospel.

This one really seems to be gospel.

 

[Gadawg]

This one really seems to be gospel.

If you do some googling youll find dozens of studies that do not support this.

Heres just a small example. I dont know who this guy is but he compiled a list of studies that contradict


https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

 

[Straight30weight]

If you do some googling youll find dozens of studies that do not support this.

Heres just a small example. I dont know who this guy is but he compiled a list of studies that contradict


https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

What I was getting at is that if you poll 100 lifters, 99 will probably tell you that you need 1 gram per pound of lean mass. Not saying it's true, I've done little research into it.

 

[MrRippedZilla]

If you do some googling youll find dozens of studies that do not support this.
Heres just a small example. I dont know who this guy is but he compiled a list of studies that contradict
https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

It's unfortunate that he uses those studies to lead to a conclusion that is also false. He recommends an intake below optimal because being a contrarian is cool among certain circles.

I also know for a fact that this guy, for years, produced articles based on studies he only ever saw the abstract to. That's...bad. You're essentially citing research you haven't actually read. Of course he then hired someone to do the reading for him last year but still - not a good look among my circle.

 

[bigdog]

I have no idea what my lean body mass is because I'm kinda fat still but I'm generally around 100g protein a day. sometimes a bit more, sometimes less. I'm happy with my progress at that number so far.

 

[Seeker]

To add what Zilla said about Gadawgs link it also focuses on natural athletes. Doesn't apply to this board and doesn't apply to AAS usage.

 

[Straight30weight]

I have no idea what my lean body mass is because I'm kinda fat still but I'm generally around 100g protein a day. sometimes a bit more, sometimes less. I'm happy with my progress at that number so far.

100g of protein a day? What’s the rest of your macros/calories look like?

 

[bigdog]

100g of protein a day? What’s the rest of your macros/calories look like?

calories are around 3500ish a day or so. I don't count macros like I should brother. pm sent...

 

[Gadawg]

It's unfortunate that he uses those studies to lead to a conclusion that is also false. He recommends an intake below optimal because being a contrarian is cool among certain circles.

I also know for a fact that this guy, for years, produced articles based on studies he only ever saw the abstract to. That's...bad. Your essentially citing research you haven't actually read. Of course he then hired someone to do the reading for him last year but still - not a good look among my circle.

Im not arguing that hes right. I have really no idea. I just wonder (like Snake) how important those numbers really are.

 

[Viduus]

I’m going to put this to bed once and for all.

1) Fast for a few days
2) Eat 60oz of chicken over 5 meals.
3) Collect and weigh my poop.

I’ll then begin the experiment over again with eating 60oz of chicken in a single siting.

If absorption isn’t limited, we’ll have the same weights. If it is, I’ll dry the turd to the same moisture level as the chicken. We can then compare the turd weight to initial chicken weight and figure out what was and wasn’t absorbed.

I may have once again over thought things.... thanks Snake.

 

[Jin]

I’m going to put this to bed once and for all.

1) Fast for a few days
2) Eat 60oz of chicken over 5 meals.
3) Collect and weigh my poop.

I’ll then begin the experiment over again with eating 60oz of chicken in a single siting.

If absorption isn’t limited, we’ll have the same weights. If it is, I’ll dry the turd to the same moisture level as the chicken. We can then compare the turd weight to initial chicken weight and figure out what was and wasn’t absorbed.

I may have once again over thought things.... thanks Snake.

What are you going to do with the poop after you weight it?

Asking for Seeker.

 

[El Gringo]

I think intermittent fasting debunked this myth. Otherwise fasters would be shitting out 170 g of protein after their single meal and only absorbing 30g a day.

 

[snake]

Maybe we already have one but I'm thinking about a thread where we can post stupid myths/ bro-science about training and diet. I just would need to to find a way to ban Zilla from it. It's nothing personal Zilla and for your own good; it would effect your well being just opening the thread.