Dangers of keep test levels elevated year round

DieYoungStrong

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The dangers? Okay, but what could be the potential benefits? Achieving demi-god status, scaling Mt. Olympus, and overthrowing Zeus himself?

Being big doesn't make you tough...
 

HollyWoodCole

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Also, that would suck if I responded the way you do. I feel ao bad for ya; it's not fair to you.

I can stay on a gram of test for years and run 3g or 4g and not get negative sides. However, I think I'm done doing experiments with my body and AAS. I do have to admit that if anyone here wanted me to try something, I may not be able to turn it down. I'm a scientist nerd at heart.

Me being free of negative sides makes it even harder to not experiment. I got the perfect body to subject AAS experiments to. For FFS I don't even lose hair.

One WEIRD effect of 2g or more of Test was the night sweats. It was a mimic of Tren with the sweating. Below 2g, the sweating waa nonexistent.
Eh, I know my limits and am comfortable with them. I wish I could be side-effect free as you describe, but its not in the cards for me. Honestly if you've been running a gram of test weekly for years you should be pretty ****ing big at this point, that's a shit ton of risk and wasted money if you haven't made any gains.
 

NbleSavage

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NbleSavage asked for data showing causation between superphysiological test levels and heart disease. This data doesn't exist and will probably never exist for a myriad of reasons - some related to ethics (which I hate as you know), others to control problems.

I don't think a rational person needs conclusive data to understand that high doses of anabolics will take years off your life. Look into the entire process of anabolism - it goes completely against what is necessary for life longevity (mTOR signalling, IGF-1, gaining weight, creating new satellite cells, etc, etc). I studied the link between AAS and left-ventricular hypertrophy (LVH is a killer) years ago and concluded that those who didn't believe that AAS plays a role in LVH because we didn't have conclusion data showing causation were being...extremely naive. To put it politely. Especially with the constant deaths in the wrestling business.

The belief that cardio will counteract the negatives on the heart is about as logical as believing that diet will counteract the negatives on your lipids. Or that reducing stress will counteract the negatives on your BP. Not backed up by data and never going to be backed up by data because the MOA doesn't check out. Lifestyle changes to counteract the effects of high doses drugs? Yea...good luck with that.

And so to set the record straight, I'm in no way advocating for keeping yer Test levels elevated constantly, but the obvious retort to the assertion that staying 'on' constantly will shorten yer life is the classic question: "Where are the bodies?"

To be more specific with this old saw, AAS have been abused for decades - surely by now there'd be a trail of dead bodybuilders, each having passed well earlier than the median for their age and demographic, yea? Do bodybuilders actually die on average earlier than non-bodybuilders with any consistency? What of?

I'm asking mostly for sake of the discussion, partly because I wince at "everyone knows that something is true" assertions. And ye, I get it that labs won't soon condone scripting wankers with a gram of Test for five years running, but I would expect there to be some semblance of research conducted in this space depicting a correlation if the anecdotal evidence (body count) were strong.
 

hulksmash

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Eh, I know my limits and am comfortable with them. I wish I could be side-effect free as you describe, but its not in the cards for me. Honestly if you've been running a gram of test weekly for years you should be pretty ****ing big at this point, that's a shit ton of risk and wasted money if you haven't made any gains.

Agreed. I quit training and gear after all that. Got down to 165lbs.

Few months ago I took lifting and gear serious again.
 

hulksmash

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So what was the point of running gear like that to look no differfnt??

I did look different. I DIDN'T get all of the potential results that I would have if I had a strict diet.
 

#TheMatrix

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Nobody here advocates hulk's testing. It's his body and it was a trial. We respected his decision. He's old school.

Let's just say. Hulk was making gains while doing daily shit. Like walking to his car.... And grew back a finger
 

MrRippedZilla

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And so to set the record straight, I'm in no way advocating for keeping yer Test levels elevated constantly, but the obvious retort to the assertion that staying 'on' constantly will shorten yer life is the classic question: "Where are the bodies?"
To be more specific with this old saw, AAS have been abused for decades - surely by now there'd be a trail of dead bodybuilders, each having passed well earlier than the median for their age and demographic, yea? Do bodybuilders actually die on average earlier than non-bodybuilders with any consistency? What of?
I'm asking mostly for sake of the discussion, partly because I wince at "everyone knows that something is true" assertions. And ye, I get it that labs won't soon condone scripting wankers with a gram of Test for five years running, but I would expect there to be some semblance of research conducted in this space depicting a correlation if the anecdotal evidence (body count) were strong.
Keep in mind that bodybuilders aren't just taking AAS. They are taking a whole bunch of other stuff so it is impossible to prove causation. Correlation? I recommend looking into pro wrestling for body count - it's a long one:

Tom Zenk - heart attack at 59 primarily due to an enlarged heart and arterial sclerosis.
Randy Savage - heart attack at 58 due to coronary artery disease (also had an enlarged heart).
Ultimate Warrior - heart attack at 54 and a guy who in his prime took exactly the same stuff at the same doses as bodybuilders (late 80s-early 90s).
Doug Furnas - died at 52 primarily due to hypertensive heart disease. Elite powerlifter before wrestling.
Nicole Bass - heart attack at 52. Former female pro bodybuilder before wrestling.
Hercules - dead at 47 due to heart disease.
Road Warrior Hawk - dead at 46, heart attack.
British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith - heart attack at 39. Well know drug abuser - high doses of AAS, GH. T3 and pretty much everything else in between.
Eddie Guerrero - heart failure at 38 due to atherosclerosis. Eddie was notorious for being strict with his diet, training consistently, doing his cardio, etc. He took other drugs apart from AAS in his career BUT the AAS doses accelerated from 2002 onward in order to progress his career. He died in 2005. Do the math.
Brian Pillman - heart attack at 35. Had a family history of atherosclerosis.

All of those guys, most of whom are big names, abused AAS (I doubt any of them "cycled"). Most would easily pass for elite bodybuilders in their prime. Now, most also did use a bunch of other shit along with AAS (uppers, downers, GH, T3, alcohol, etc) but that doesn't change the fact that AAS abuse was a contributing factor to their deaths. I do consider it to be fairly strong anecdotal evidence personally.

I understand wincing at "everyone knows that something is true". I'm the same. A healthy dose of skepticism is very much the right mentality to have. For me, it's not so much what "everybody knows" as it is the anecdotal data combined with some rational thought about the MOAs at play here. I just can't, in good conscience, ignore this stuff.
 
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Gadawg

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Keep in mind that bodybuilders aren't just taking AAS. They are taking a whole bunch of other stuff so it is impossible to prove causation. Correlation? I recommend looking into pro wrestling for body count - it's a long one:

Tom Zenk - heart attack at 59 primarily due to an enlarged heart and arterial sclerosis.
Randy Savage - heart attack at 58 due to coronary artery disease (also had an enlarged heart).
Ultimate Warrior - heart attack at 54 and a guy who in his prime took exactly the same stuff at the same doses as bodybuilders (late 80s-early 90s).
Doug Furnas - died at 52 primarily due to hypertensive heart disease. Elite powerlifter before wrestling.
Nicole Bass - heart attack at 52. Former female pro bodybuilder before wrestling.
Hercules - dead at 47 due to heart disease.
Road Warrior Hawk - dead at 46, heart attack.
British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith - heart attack at 39. Well know drug abuser - high doses of AAS, GH. T3 and pretty much everything else in between.
Eddie Guerrero - heart failure at 38 due to atherosclerosis. Eddie was notorious for being strict with his diet, training consistently, doing his cardio, etc. He took other drugs apart from AAS in his career BUT the AAS doses accelerated from 2002 onward in order to progress his career. He died in 2005. Do the math.
Brian Pillman - heart attack at 35. Had a family history of atherosclerosis.

All of those guys, most of whom are big names, abused AAS (I doubt any of them "cycled"). Most would easily pass for elite bodybuilders in their prime. Now, most also did use a bunch of other shit along with AAS (uppers, downers, GH, T3, alcohol, etc) but that doesn't change the fact that AAS abuse was a contributing factor to their deaths. I do consider it to be fairly strong anecdotal evidence personally.

I understand wincing at "everyone knows that something is true". I'm the same. A healthy dose of skepticism is very much the right mentality to have. For me, it's not so much what "everybody knows" as it is the anecdotal data combined with some rational thought about the MOAs at play here. I just can't, in good conscience, ignore this stuff.


As you stated though, pro wrestlers may not be a fair comparison because of the incredible abuse of stimulants and painkillers. Probably for sure a contributing factor but that list would be a whole lot shorter if they were just using AAS.
 

Texan69

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As you stated though, pro wrestlers may not be a fair comparison because of the incredible abuse of stimulants and painkillers. Probably for sure a contributing factor but that list would be a whole lot shorter if they were just using AAS.

I agree I would imagine those guys abused painkillers and even recreational drugs. Not to dog on them but I imagine it would be hard to avoid it with that much money and fame
going to parties I imagine the abundance of cocaine and various pills would be there and I could see it being easy to fall into that addiction. I would say that any street drug or abuse of painkillers would be far worse than AAS although I have no proof but just seems logical.
 

Gadawg

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I agree I would imagine those guys abused painkillers and even recreational drugs. Not to dog on them but I imagine it would be hard to avoid it with that much money and fame
going to parties I imagine the abundance of cocaine and various pills would be there and I could see it being easy to fall into that addiction. I would say that any street drug or abuse of painkillers would be far worse than AAS although I have no proof but just seems logical.

It's not partying per say. It's physical abuse and the incredible hours. Jake the snake said he wrestled seven days a week and twice each weekend day for years. Speed and painkillers become necessary.
 

hulksmash

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IMO, all the deaths in BBing and forum members are because of lacking cardio, letting their potassium:sodium ratio be ignored, and diets based on looks rather than longevity.

We know AAS can affect hearts, yet everybody and their momma refuses to do every variable needed to protect health.

Physique beats longevity. AAS doesnt kill; it increases risks to health. Then everyone ignores the risks. Fruit? Nah brah, gots to get shredded!
 

hulksmash

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Nobody here advocates hulk's testing. It's his body and it was a trial. We respected his decision. He's old school.

Let's just say. Hulk was making gains while doing daily shit. Like walking to his car.... And grew back a finger

Yea, and i even wrote disclaimers on my threads! I rather no one do what I do, and just have fun reading about resulta.

Btw, the finger is normal except for one thing-the new nail that grew kept a curve due to the bandage, like how trees can grow curved and such.
 

Bro Bundy

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post up a pic of that finger
 

#TheMatrix

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post up a pic of that finger

cc9LzkW.jpg
 

Bullseye Forever

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Take it from experience! Your hematocrit will be very high,your blood thick as sorghum molasses and you will die quicker!! Don’t matter how many times you donate IF you keep your test levels real high for more than say 2 years!!

At my TRT dose of 200mg/week I havet to donate once every 1-2 months! This is my Onocologist/Hematologists helping me! When I run a cycle he helps me with mine but I don’t run real high doses either
 

Bullseye Forever

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IMO, all the deaths in BBing and forum members are because of lacking cardio, letting their potassium:sodium ratio be ignored, and diets based on looks rather than longevity.

We know AAS can affect hearts, yet everybody and their momma refuses to do every variable needed to protect health.

Physique beats longevity. AAS doesnt kill; it increases risks to health. Then everyone ignores the risks. Fruit? Nah brah, gots to get shredded!

Yes number one,take care of your heart and blood!! If you use’n!!
 

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