Last few questions that I havent been able to find the answers to

[loafie]

Hi all

After all the research Ive done on this forum and other ones like TNation and r/steroids, Ive come up with a short list of the remaining questions that I haven’t been able to figure out.

For reference I am about to start my first cycle, which will be 12 weeks of 500mg/week Test E

my physical stats are:
height: 6' 0.25" (184 cm)
weight: 180 lbs (81.4 kg)
bodyfat: 10.7%

my weightlifting stats are:
squat: 330 lbs (149 kg)
deadlift: 350 lbs (165 kg)
bench: 230 lbs (104 kg)


1) I wanted to know in your experiences would you recommend sticking with a simple and easy to remember, set bi-weekly pinning schedule? Like say Mondays and Thursdays for the entirety of the 10 weeks? Or forego the set days and instead go with every third day of pinning, so for example if my first pin is on Monday, the next would be Thursday, then the next would be Sunday, then the next would be Wednesday… etc etc…

And lastly while on this topic, is there a time of the day where its ideal to inject? I was thinking that the time wont matter much but rather in terms of PIP to inject it maybe after lifting??

2) I have enough HCG on hand for the entire cycle and then some, however Im still not sure exactly when to start injecting. I have read somewhere that its recommended to start on the second week? Furthermore, I was wondering if its ok to pin my HCG on the same pinning schedule I have for the Test (btw I know Im not supposed to place both in the same syringe when injecting). Or would there be some adverse effect from pinning them both on the same day?

Im wondering because I think it would simplify things considerably where I just pin everything on the same days.

3) Im not sure of the approach I should take regarding AI’s. I have read that many prefer not taking AI’s until they begin to notice sides like sensitive nipples and high blood pressure, especially if they are just going to go on a simple and light cycle of 500mg test e like I will be. However Im thinking of going on AI’s from the beginning not necessarily out of the fear of gyno or other sides, but more that I can learn my own body’s tolerance and reaction to AI’s and subsequent E2 level so I can really dial my levels in the future when I do larger cycles.

While on the topic of AI’s, I still haven’t gotten a clear answer on the question of Arimidex vs Aromasin. I have read the stickied thread in this board calling “The Estrogen Conundrum” and the most I got from it is that Aromasin is more consistent if you are able to dial in the dose. Another thing that Ive got in the way of narrowing it down is the fact that apparently Arimidex is not a good AI to take in combination with Nolvadex, which would lead me to lean towards using Aromasin instead (since I’ll be using Nolva as during my PCT).

And lastly Ive noticed that many say to take it ED and some say take it EOD (of course if you do EOD you would take double the dose of ED) so it would appear on paper that mathematically you are getting the same amount of the AI in the end, however in the real-world Im guessing that there may be a slight advantage to one over the other.

4) My maintenance calories are pretty much exactly 3000 calories, so Im wondering if I should kind of "reverse taper" my calories such that in the first like 3 weeks Im only eating 3250 calories, and then by the 4th week increase it to 3500 calories (since it seems the long estered Test E starts kicking in around week 4)?

 

[Jin]

1) Bi weekly is more than adequate. Time of day doesn’t matter when you pin. Don’t over think this shit.

2) Your HTPA will shut down upon the introduction of exogenous test. Therefore I would suggest hcg right off the bat.

People have preferences on how to time their hcg with their test injections. It doesn’t make too much difference so if same day is easier then do that. 250iu 2x/wk.

you are correct that you shouldn’t mix the hcg and test but furthermore hcg is injected subcutaneously, into the belly fat. You’ll need insulin pins.

3) This is my personal opinion. .25 adex 2x/wk starting the beginning of week 3 then blood work 4 weeks after.

Never heard anything about Adex/Nolva combo as being bad. You will not be taking them concurrently during Pct as you do not need ai then.

4) start eating the full amount from first pin. The nutrition partitioning effects take hold quickly. I remember this from a post Megatron wrote years ago. “Pick up that fork and start eating”

12 WEEKS IS TOO SHORT for test e/c. First cycle: 14-16 weeks. You’ll be grateful for the advice if you take it.

 

[maxmuscle1]

I liked 500mg Sustanon every Mon&Thur for 4 weeks, then Test E or C 500mg for 12 weeks(same pinning schedule). Total 16 weeks

AI’s- only if needed during or after bloods. I prefer adex.
Pct- start 14 days after last pin,
Clomid and Nolvadex for 4 weeks -
Daily-Clomid 100-50 mg and nolvadex 60-40mg , tapering down style.
HCG- Start when pct starts. I usually get 5,000iu bottle. I dilute and do 3 injections total (around 1500iu per inj.)so that’s 1 injection of every 5 days.

Worked great for me many times. You are going to grow incredibly your first cycle! Get the most out of your training, stay strict and consistent. No cardio and lots of macros and water. * I don’t use creatine or nitric oxide products until post cycle but I take protein and carb powders throughout.
Max

 

[Jin]

I liked 500mg Sustanon every Mon&Thur for 4 weeks, then Test E or C 500mg for 12 weeks(same pinning schedule). Total 16 weeks

AI’s- only if needed during or after bloods. I prefer adex.
Pct- start 14 days after last pin,
Clomid and Nolvadex for 4 weeks -
Daily-Clomid 100-50 mg and nolvadex 60-40mg , tapering down style.
HCG- Start when pct starts. I usually get 5,000iu bottle. I dilute and do 3 injections total (around 1500iu per inj.)so that’s 1 injection of every 5 days.

Worked great for me many times. You are going to grow incredibly your first cycle! Get the most out of your training, stay strict and consistent. No cardio and lots of macros and water. * I don’t use creatine or nitric oxide products until post cycle but I take protein and carb powders throughout.
Max

What’s the point in running Sustanon for 4 weeks at the beginning of. Test c/e blast (hint: there is none)

why are you recommending the old school method for taking hcg?

Whats better for your car battery:
keep it on a trickle charger?
let it die then recharge it?

what do you think is better for your testicular function:
keep them functioning
have them shut down completely and then restart them?

OP is obviously very meticulous. I tried to give him very simple directions so he doesn’t overthink things as he is prone to.

If you disagree with what I advised then say so and then say why you do.

Don’t just write a whole bunch of extraneous (he asked 4 specific questions) and contradicting (to my own) info without explanation.

 

[maxmuscle1]

What’s the point in running Sustanon for 4 weeks at the beginning of. Test c/e blast (hint: there is none)

why are you recommending the old school method for taking hcg?

Whats better for your car battery:
keep it on a trickle charger?
let it die then recharge it?

what do you think is better for your testicular function:
keep them functioning
have them shut down completely and then restart them?

OP is obviously very meticulous. I tried to give him very simple directions so he doesn’t overthink things as he is prone to.

If you disagree with what I advised then say so and then say why you do.

Don’t just write a whole bunch of extraneous (he asked 4 specific questions) and contradicting (to my own) info without explanation.

Agreed! He deserves simplicity.

 

[daddyboul]

1) Bi weekly is more than adequate. Time of day doesn’t matter when you pin. Don’t over think this shit.

2) Your HTPA will shut down upon the introduction of exogenous test. Therefore I would suggest hcg right off the bat.

People have preferences on how to time their hcg with their test injections. It doesn’t make too much difference so if same day is easier then do that. 250iu 2x/wk.

you are correct that you shouldn’t mix the hcg and test but furthermore hcg is injected subcutaneously, into the belly fat. You’ll need insulin pins.

3) This is my personal opinion. .25 adex 2x/wk starting the beginning of week 3 then blood work 4 weeks after.

Never heard anything about Adex/Nolva combo as being bad. You will not be taking them concurrently during Pct as you do not need ai then.

4) start eating the full amount from first pin. The nutrition partitioning effects take hold quickly. I remember this from a post Megatron wrote years ago. “Pick up that fork and start eating”

12 WEEKS IS TOO SHORT for test e/c. First cycle: 14-16 weeks. You’ll be grateful for the advice if you take it.

On the topic of insulin pins Loafie, if you live in the states you can walk into Walmart and buy something like 1 10 pack of insulin needles at a time(I'm diabetic so I get a script of like 200 needles a month, but if I come up short I can always walk in and just buy a pack without a script), just thought id put this out there in case you dont want to order them or if you ever come up short.

 

[snake]

Jin has ya covered. As for pin days, I always squat once a week on Sat so I pin after that. I pin quads and glutes and I don't want my pin to fall on the day before a squat. Doesn't work if you're leg day changes.

As Jin said, it's personal preference but I like to start my AI on week one. I figure if my Test is going up, so will my E2 and I like to get on that right away.

 

[hulksmash]

1) 1x a week pinning. That easy.

2) I've never had a PCT; can't help.

3) .5mg Adex every 2 days.

Edit: As Jin recommended to go longer: the longer you're on, the better. I will never go off AAS if that stays possible.

 

[hulksmash]

Do people still believe the "keep hormone levels even" BS?

Pointless to pin more than 1x a week.

Endogenous hormones fluctuate; it's stupid people even worry about stability.

 

[snake]

Pointless to pin more than 1x a week.

Hulk's answer to large volume and pinning once a week. :32 (18):

 

[daddyboul]

Hulk's answer to large volume and pinning once a week. :32 (18):

View attachment 7295

Dont let FD see that, its just one more thing to put up his butt.

 

[jennerrator]

Dont let FD see that, its just one more thing to put up his butt.

Best response in this thread....lmao!

 

[hulksmash]

Hulk's answer to large volume and pinning once a week. :32 (18):

View attachment 7295

I actually only use 20g ever to pin

And LOL at the pic

You guys never inject 3ml at one time? I do that weekly.

 

[loafie]

12 WEEKS IS TOO SHORT for test e/c. First cycle: 14-16 weeks. You’ll be grateful for the advice if you take it.

Thats what I was actually thinking in the beginning stages of doing research on my first test e cycle, however I was over time bombarded by the onslaught of people recommending doing just a 12 week cycle.

So now Im unsure which to go with?!

If it helps to paint the context better, I will say that I will only be doing gear recreationally and have NO intention of doing BnC, would that possibly help narrow down the decision I make to going with the 12 week cycle instead of the 16 week cycle?

Because while the 16 week cycle sounds much better for making gains (especially being my first cycle) Im slightly more worried with the PCT and regaining my natural levels of hormones back after a longer cycle?

 

[Jin]

Thats what I was actually thinking in the beginning stages of doing research on my first test e cycle, however I was over time bombarded by the onslaught of people recommending doing just a 12 week cycle.

So now Im unsure which to go with?!

If it helps to paint the context better, I will say that I will only be doing gear recreationally and have NO intention of doing BnC, would that possibly help narrow down the decision I make to going with the 12 week cycle instead of the 16 week cycle?

Because while the 16 week cycle sounds much better for making gains (especially being my first cycle) Im slightly more worried with the PCT and regaining my natural levels of hormones back after a longer cycle?

There is an increased risk of that. But in my estimation it is very little extra risk for an outcome you’ll appreciate far better than 12 weeks.

 

[hulksmash]

Thats what I was actually thinking in the beginning stages of doing research on my first test e cycle, however I was over time bombarded by the onslaught of people recommending doing just a 12 week cycle.

So now Im unsure which to go with?!

If it helps to paint the context better, I will say that I will only be doing gear recreationally and have NO intention of doing BnC, would that possibly help narrow down the decision I make to going with the 12 week cycle instead of the 16 week cycle?

Because while the 16 week cycle sounds much better for making gains (especially being my first cycle) Im slightly more worried with the PCT and regaining my natural levels of hormones back after a longer cycle?

I think you're worrying way too much; do the 16 weeks.

If you have just shit genes, you will find out, and can stop before 16 weeks.

 

[Dungeon Dweller]

Some like to use an AI with every cycle but I've learned I rarely need one, and then found out I'm not alone. You don't want high E but you don't want no E either. Bloodwork is the best way to know if you need one. I also use Aromasin not Arimidex, which works differently.

 

[Seeker]

if you can't make your 1st cycle successful over a 12 week period then the problem isn't that you didn't go an extra 4 weeks, or your genes, ( what a stupid fuking remark.) it's just you you weren't prepared enough. my 1st and 2nd cycles were both 12 weeks and they were plenty enough to get great results.

 

[hulksmash]

...or your genes, ( what a stupid fuking remark.)..

No, it's not a stupid remark.

He can be one of the people that will diet+train correctly, then start to get gyno, bloating, bad acne, "test flu", fatigue, etc.

That response is genetic and more weeks could be more problematic versus beneficial.

I said he shouldn't worry, unless he is a poor responder. Then he can shorten the cycle.

 

[Seeker]

No, it's not a stupid remark.

He can be one of the people that will diet+train correctly, then start to get gyno, bloating, bad acne, "test flu", fatigue, etc.

That response is genetic and more weeks could be more problematic versus beneficial.

I said he shouldn't worry, unless he is a poor responder. Then he can shorten the cycle.

well all or any of those things would happen within a few weeks. And yes, genetics plays a part in some sides. But now that the subject came up it's a good opportunity for me to add that the LONGER the cycle the higher the chances for sides to worsen or even formulate if at 1st you weren't experiencing any. At least any noticeable ones. So why drag your 1st cycle so far out? It's just not neccessary. Most of us have ran longer ones, including myself. But your 1st is not necessary. Even future cycles if you plan on cycling on and off shouldn't go further. I wouldn'trecommend it unless you make the decision to actually start blasting and cruising or trt which you'll end up on anyway