A question on keto and training

[StephMalachy1990]

Stats;
Age 20
Height 186cm
Weight 100kg / estimated 15 bodyfat
Lifting experience 3 years

Im considering starting a keto cut. Ive done keto before for nearly 2 weeks but in the second week my weight training was very poor in terms of performance and I ended it. It was also the first time I tried keto and I wasnt used to feeling so glycogen depleted and "small" However it was very easy to be on a cut while using keto as I didnt get cravings and it was maintainable.

Lately ive tried high carb, moderate protein moderate fat but still on a slight deficit and it was maintainable but the result were too slow and if I cut calories more than 300/500 deficit a day get too strong cravings.

I just want todo a 8 week burst of cutting and get it over and done with, lean out completely with the sole goal of fatloss and muslce maintaince as much as possible.

My plan was to start a keto diet again. Maintence for me is around 2800/3000 kcal so id aim for 2000 kcal a day.
1g protein per pound of bodyweight. <50g indirect carbs and the rest fats. Intermittent fast 16/8

The difference will come with my training. Im going to rest from the weightlifting and instead do 45/60 mins Light/Moderate intensity cardio a day.

Maybe once or twice a week il do a weightlifting session squats, bench, row, overhead press and dips. sets of 5 reps.
This is mainly to try to preserve muscle.

The only supplements il be using is creatine and 400mg testosterone a week.

Has anyone any input im mainly looking to know your opinion on if id lose muscle.

Thanks for reading. Id appreciate any input.

 

[stonetag]

Other than losing a lot of water weight for the first few weeks, which gave the appearance of muscle loss, I wont do the keto gig again. I've never craved a piece of fuking bread more in my entire life than on keto! Fuk keto! You said any input.

 

[dk8594]

A keto diet can work. Here is a thread from when I did it for a year.

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/26122-12-Month-Ketogenic-Experiment?highlight=month+keto

Keep in mind, though, that it's not a magic bullet. Look at your other variables too. A 2,000 calories diet, 7 days of cardio, and only 2 days of weights sounds like a recipe for muscle loss to me. I'd suggest increasing your calories, decreasing your cardio, and adding weight training sessions comprising of 8-12 reps (you won't have the explosiveness for 5 reps). Also, don't be afraid to have 50 or so grams or carbs a day. Just time them around your workout.

 

[automatondan]

Keto works well for fat loss, I've done it multiple times now with good results. But as DK said, it's not magic. There are other variables that are just as important for significant fat loss.

One thing I will say is on keto, my recovery time after heavy lifting significantly increased, I'm talking days of doms, even on blast. Contrast that to being on blast with a high carb (500+ grams), high protein diet, where I could squat every other day and be fine (not advising that). I also believe I lose muscle every time I do keto. So you just have to make peace with those facts if you decide to give keto a go.

Oh also, a few weeks never seems worth it to me. If I'm doing keto, I'm doing 3-6 months minimum. The longer in keto, the better quality results you get.

 

[PillarofBalance]

If your results were too slow it's because:

1. Your calorie deficit was bigger on keto

And/or

2. You lost a shitload of water right off the bat on keto.


One diet is not going to be superior to another. It's all about calorie deficit.

Having said that though, the best diet for YOU is the one you can stick too.

It took me like 6 years to really figure out how to manipulate my body comp. Maybe I am slightly moronic or whatever, but honestly at 3 years of training you are still quite new. 15% isn't a terrible place to be.

I say this because I see you did high carb and keto. What if you ate the same way you do when focused on building muscle, but just ate less of a quantity? That's all it takes to lose and gain, just decrease or increase your intake

Do not change your training up for some lightweight high rep bullshit in a deficit. Train hard and heavy. Make your body understand that it can't give up any of that muscle by showing your body you need it.

 

[BigSwolePump]

Keto works well for fat loss, I've done it multiple times now with good results. But as DK said, it's not magic. There are other variables that are just as important for significant fat loss.

One thing I will say is on keto, my recovery time after heavy lifting significantly increased, I'm talking days of doms, even on blast. Contrast that to being on blast with a high carb (500+ grams), high protein diet, where I could squat every other day and be fine (not advising that). I also believe I lose muscle every time I do keto. So you just have to make peace with those facts if you decide to give keto a go.

Oh also, a few weeks never seems worth it to me. If I'm doing keto, I'm doing 3-6 months minimum. The longer in keto, the better quality results you get.

Losing muscle on keto? I would have thought that with all the protein intake that it would have preserved muscle. Keto is just confusing to me.

I've always been a big fan of fasting or some call it intermittent fasting. I never noticed any type of muscle loss but have definitely saw fat loss. My only problem with it was when I ate, I had less time to get all of my calories in so I was bloated when I was eating.

 

[snake]

Give it a shot but to me, you need to find something that you can hold too for longer then 8 weeks. I'm not opposed to a short weight loss but understand you will return to your former weight if you can not maintain it.

I think cutting your training down or out is a bad idea. To me, that's like cutting off a limb to drop 20 lbs.; you want a good end product.

 

[automatondan]

Losing muscle on keto? I would have thought that with all the protein intake that it would have preserved muscle. Keto is just confusing to me.

I've always been a big fan of fasting or some call it intermittent fasting. I never noticed any type of muscle loss but have definitely saw fat loss. My only problem with it was when I ate, I had less time to get all of my calories in so I was bloated when I was eating.

Keto is a bit confusing. You might be confusing keto for a diet high in protein and absent of carbs (like Atkins). Keto is more focused on high fats than high protein. Too high of protein and you can actually pull your body out of ketosis... So if the focus is on getting that high level of fats in, it becomes 'harder' to eat as much protein because you will end up lowering the ratio between fats and protein as well as potentially going over on your total cals for the day. So that's why I had some muscle loss. It wasn't a lot, but I did notice it.

 

[MtBikR]

If you are eating in a caloric deficit and training hard, but say only eating say .75g of protein per lb of lean body mass to stay in ketosis, it seems like you'd be at risk of losing some muscle with the weight right? But even if this was increased to say 1gr per lb of lbm with heavy training, would the fact you're still in a caloric deficit still mandate some muscle loss?