Looking for Growth

[ClassicallyNew]

I'm a lifelong addict to lifting and body management, all within the scope of natural processes. I have recently taken on a personal goal of staying low body fat while bulking, which for me is a very difficult process. I have adjusted my macros to the correct levels, with the adjustment numbers planned as I gain size/weight.

Unfortunately I went the PH route, thinking it would give me a kickstart, but found that even stacking a large number, it doesn't give much in the way of bulk. I was investigating SARMS as another test to get a kickstart, but from the reviews I have read it sounds to be the same results, or worse since the origins of most are powders coming from overseas, and questionable purity.

I have kept away from what is the most tested and proven route due to the legality in the US. I have spoken with my doctor about the possibility of my researching, and he is comfortable with it as long as performed strategically, and will be providing blood work if I do go that route.

Looking to gain knowledge in order to determine if it is the way for me to go.

Solid With:
Personal Macros
Workout Routines
Healthy Life Decisions

Unknowns:
Safely Bulking

 

[Spongy]

Welcome, ask away!

 

[hulksmash]

I'm a lifelong addict to lifting and body management, all within the scope of natural processes. I have recently taken on a personal goal of staying low body fat while bulking, which for me is a very difficult process. I have adjusted my macros to the correct levels, with the adjustment numbers planned as I gain size/weight.

Unfortunately I went the PH route, thinking it would give me a kickstart, but found that even stacking a large number, it doesn't give much in the way of bulk. I was investigating SARMS as another test to get a kickstart, but from the reviews I have read it sounds to be the same results, or worse since the origins of most are powders coming from overseas, and questionable purity.

I have kept away from what is the most tested and proven route due to the legality in the US. I have spoken with my doctor about the possibility of my researching, and he is comfortable with it as long as performed strategically, and will be providing blood work if I do go that route.

Looking to gain knowledge in order to determine if it is the way for me to go.

Solid With:
Personal Macros
Workout Routines
Healthy Life Decisions

Unknowns:
Safely Bulking

I went from ~115lbs to 213lbs at 5'7.5.

Make eating your job. Use techniques from competitive eaters. One tactic:

Eat all the protein on your plate first → eat to fullness → take a breath and eat more → repeat until you're sweating, uncomfortable, and ready to vomit → stop eating​

Your stomach will stretch after ~2 weeks of that routine. You'll be able to eat a ton of food without feeling miserable while force feeding.

Also:

• Use heavy whipping cream
• Eat at least 1.2-1.5g of protein per pound of body weight
• Only drink water and whole milk
• Eat higher calorie meats
• use fast food periodically
• Don't go above a ~600 to 800 calorie surplus

That's all I can think of right now.

 

[hulksmash]

Also, worrying about minutia to bulk is 100% stupidity.

I love data and numbers. Everyone here will tell you that. However, gaining muscle and losing fat really is just common sense.

Give attention to calories and protein, and disregard everything else. I see you wrote "macros"-forget about "macros" and other details.

A successful bulk=eat in a surplus, don't have a surplus of too many calories, have high daily protein, do very intense lifting, and do cardio. That's it, nothing else!

 

[ClassicallyNew]

Thanks for the advice Hulk. I have mastered the art of being a competitive eater, but in order to keep a low bodyfat and gain muscle I currently have the correct balance. I am at the edge of just slightly more intake than I should be getting, to make sure I'm slightly over-fueling. I also eat only clean calories; the only non-clean calories are my post workout which contains protein shake.

I did test the double calorie route, but unfortunately my body type will store the calories and cause a reduction in definition. I'm looking to slowly add the bulk while keeping most of my current definition.

 

[automatondan]

Welcome. You could experiment with Intermittent Fasting to help keep bf low while still maintaining a surplus of calories and benefiting from controlling insulin and mTOR spikes.

Or you could increase your cals on a normal style diet and do 2-adays and add HIIT for cardio.

 

[automatondan]

Btw, anything in the PH world nowadays is garbage and is most likely highly filled with toxins and God knows what. Orals in general are not good for you. I'd stay away from SARMS as well. None of them are "kickstarters" and ALL will have at least SOME inhibitory effect on your natuaral HPTA. If you want to do the real thing, we have a AAS section here on the board that is full of solid info. I'd start by reading the stickies in those sections, and then post up a new thread with questions.

 

[Long]

I'm a lifelong addict to lifting and body management, all within the scope of natural processes. I have recently taken on a personal goal of staying low body fat while bulking, which for me is a very difficult process. I have adjusted my macros to the correct levels, with the adjustment numbers planned as I gain size/weight.

Unfortunately I went the PH route, thinking it would give me a kickstart, but found that even stacking a large number, it doesn't give much in the way of bulk. I was investigating SARMS as another test to get a kickstart, but from the reviews I have read it sounds to be the same results, or worse since the origins of most are powders coming from overseas, and questionable purity.

I have kept away from what is the most tested and proven route due to the legality in the US. I have spoken with my doctor about the possibility of my researching, and he is comfortable with it as long as performed strategically, and will be providing blood work if I do go that route.

Looking to gain knowledge in order to determine if it is the way for me to go.

Solid With:
Personal Macros
Workout Routines
Healthy Life Decisions

Unknowns:
Safely Bulking

Low bodyfat bulking sounds like Vince Girondas territory. Full keto meat, cheese, cream, eggs no carbs.

That said I am certainly not the person to give you advice on the subject, but I have recently read a bunch of his stuff and that is literally how he trained Larry Scott.

 

[transcend2007]

Your post lacks all relevant info ... including age, height, weight, body fat, years lifting, and calories you're currently eating ... you sound young and inexperienced (not being mean - just stating the facts as I see them) ..

Most even beginning bodybuilders, weightlifters, or anyone with the goal of adding muscle know you must have a calorie positive diet to gain size ... this simply means you must take in more calories than you use daily ... to be honest without knowing anything else ... I'd say if you're going to bulk then bulk ... dont fvck around ....

The natural / enhanced conversation can only be had once you've put in the years natural to leaned to workout and eat to grow first .. in any case post up your stats.

 

[ClassicallyNew]

Thanks for the advice dan. I will take time this evening and go through that section. Yeah, I found that that I needed estrogen and gear support during the PH cycle, and had to do a full PCT to get back to normal after. All while getting minimal gains during the process.

 

[ClassicallyNew]

Thanks Long. I appreciate any advice. That will allow me to investigate all options. I did go Keto for a while, and it does provide great cutting. For me it created muscle loss during the process as well. But if there's a regimen out there that provides the cutting of keto while gaining muscle, I'm all for checking it out.

 

[Grizzly911]

Thanks Long. I appreciate any advice. That will allow me to investigate all options. I did go Keto for a while, and it does provide great cutting. For me it created muscle loss during the process as well. But if there's a regimen out there that provides the cutting of keto while gaining muscle, I'm all for checking it out.

What are your stats right now? Age, weight, height, bodyfat %?

 

[ClassicallyNew]

Transcend, I appreciate the response. My post was an introduction summary about me and my focus. You are correct, the details are incredibly important since there are different body types with different metabolisms, and different external factors that can affect both the mind and body; which mindset is extremely valuable to how well you reach your physical goals. You are also very incorrect, I am not young, nor am I inexperienced. Age while some believe is important, it is not so much. What changes over time is the way your body metabolizes, and that can be adjusted by how you fuel and maintain balance.

I guess I should have taken into account all types of people and how they interpret data. I am extremely comfortable with my testing and verification over the many years of sculpting my body that I have the correct fueling, workout routines, rest cycles, and sleep patterns to provide the body style I enjoy. But, I have recently challenged myself with adding some muscle bulk, not just body bulk. Upon investigating options I found that there were some reporting significant muscle gains utilizing Prohormones. Being that it is a legal route, I opted to try it out. I have gone through two full cycles, on and performing post cycle, and have found that it will not provide the bulking I'm looking to achieve.

With that, here is the question at hand for me:

Should I go down the path of testing steroids to help me achieve my goals? Visiting this site will help me get valuable information and real world advice towards determining if that is the path I want to go, or should I pivot and change my focus.

 

[transcend2007]

Transcend, I appreciate the response. My post was an introduction summary about me and my focus. You are correct, the details are incredibly important since there are different body types with different metabolisms, and different external factors that can affect both the mind and body; which mindset is extremely valuable to how well you reach your physical goals. You are also very incorrect, I am not young, nor am I inexperienced. Age while some believe is important, it is not so much. What changes over time is the way your body metabolizes, and that can be adjusted by how you fuel and maintain balance.

I guess I should have taken into account all types of people and how they interpret data. I am extremely comfortable with my testing and verification over the many years of sculpting my body that I have the correct fueling, workout routines, rest cycles, and sleep patterns to provide the body style I enjoy. But, I have recently challenged myself with adding some muscle bulk, not just body bulk. Upon investigating options I found that there were some reporting significant muscle gains utilizing Prohormones. Being that it is a legal route, I opted to try it out. I have gone through two full cycles, on and performing post cycle, and have found that it will not provide the bulking I'm looking to achieve.

With that, here is the question at hand for me:

Should I go down the path of testing steroids to help me achieve my goals? Visiting this site will help me get valuable information and real world advice towards determining if that is the path I want to go, or should I pivot and change my focus.

You avoided the my questions altogether ... respond this time please (no need for lengthy paragraphs - just real data) ... AGE, WEIGHT, HEIGHT, BODY FAT%, YEARS TRAINING, CALORIE INTAKE ... in bigger letters so you did not miss them this time ... again this is the absolute starting block .. if your cannot answer these simplest of questions ... you're either a troll or worse.

 

[CJ]

Welcome to the club!

Have you tried mini cuts? Something like 4 weeks or so in a surplus gaining, then 1-2 weeks in a deficit to drop a bit of the fat?

 

[Deadhead]

Ph are a waste of money, if you want to bulk ... eat, lots... and when you notice your bodyfat % raising fit some cardio in.

 

[ClassicallyNew]

You avoided the my questions altogether ... respond this time please (no need for lengthy paragraphs - just real data) ... AGE, WEIGHT, HEIGHT, BODY FAT%, YEARS TRAINING, CALORIE INTAKE ... in bigger letters so you did not miss them this time ... again this is the absolute starting block .. if your cannot answer these simplest of questions ... you're either a troll or worse.

I didn't avoid your question, you apparently didn't read my response. I feel my details are irrelevant to me determining whether AAS is the path I want to take, but since it is apparently life and death to you that you have them, below are my stats. Also, I'm sure a troll, or worse, couldn't possibly just throw out random stats to appease you.

Male
47
175lbs
5'6"
5% BF
30+ years training
3700 Calories per day
6 meals + 1 post
1/2 Gallon water
Workout 5 days on - 2 days off
Focus - 7 hours sleep

 

[ClassicallyNew]

Ph are a waste of money, if you want to bulk ... eat, lots... and when you notice your bodyfat % raising fit some cardio in.

I appreciate the response dead. I have sadly found first hand that they are overpriced bunk.

 

[ClassicallyNew]

Welcome to the club!

Have you tried mini cuts? Something like 4 weeks or so in a surplus gaining, then 1-2 weeks in a deficit to drop a bit of the fat?

I have not CJ. I will look into that and see how effective it has been for others. Have you tried this process? If so, what is the feedback on it?

 

[CJ]

No, I have not. But I was listening to a podcast, and they were talking about a study in which people either dieted for 12 weeks straight, or 24 weeks alternating 2 weeks in a deficit and 2 weeks at maintenance. Same fat loss, just group 2 had an easier perception of the diet.

The hosts were speculating that it may be similar if one were to gain weight in a similar manner, especially for those who are prone to perceive themselves as "getting fat" and likely to bail out on the weight gain.

To be fair, they all agreed that it would be painfully slow, and not what they'd do, especially on the weight loss side. But I did think of it when you stated how minimal fat gain was your priority.

Question, how much fat are you willing to gain? You state that you're at 5% bf, which is really low and awesome, but do you think that that level is sustainable when trying to gain some lean tissue? How high are you willing to accept?