Esters: same hormone, different effects?

Jin

Retired UG Staff
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
13,853
Reaction score
22,715
Points
441
Time for you to weigh in.

You say Deca gives you bloat but NPP gives you a drier look.

Tren E doesn’t give you side effects to but tren A is a nightmare.

Are these effects/differences real or perceived?

Is testosterone always “testosterone” or do different esters have different advantages beyond the half life?

I’ll accept bro science and actual science. Please state from which you speak.

FWIW my view is that there should
be no difference except half-life.

*Sometimes the weight of the ester may factor in and you are actually getting more bang than you expect with shorter esters.
 
Last edited:

rawdeal

Elite
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
1,613
Points
113
I have tended to use slow esters more than fast, so this is no-science, just imo.

What is perceived can be due to the old peaks and troughs concept. Based on reading many posts over the yrs I'm guessing most people inject Tren Ace eod or even 3 x week, rather than the ideal ed shots. Those who use Tren E might get a better experience with 2 x week, or better still, e3d.

If (IF) there's any truth to that, the concept seems to be reversed by the guys who brag on Bold Cyp over Eq, or NPP over Deca, but the comparison may be sloppy in that: with Tren we're comparing Enthanate vs. Acetate, but with the other two it's Cyp vs. 2 really slow esters.
 

Trump

Unstoppable Force
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
5,843
Reaction score
7,799
Points
283
Maybe with tren e the sides come on gradually so less noticed as your body get used to them. Then with tren a they come quick because hits in a short space of time
 

Rhino99

Elite
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
1,554
Reaction score
1,189
Points
113
Maybe with tren e the sides come on gradually so less noticed as your body get used to them. Then with tren a they come quick because hits in a short space of time

Hmmmmm.....
 

Viduus

Elite
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
2,560
Reaction score
2,382
Points
0
I’m glad you asked. The fact everyone treats nandrolone so different then testosterone with the topic has always confused me.

i think rawdeal might be on to something. The shorter Easter’s seem to let my body clear things faster and avoid a lot of side effects.

Spikes of Test prop has been a lot nicer then high dose test cup. NPP has been fantastic but I don’t have DECA experience to compare to.
 

Rumpy

Senior Member
SI Founding Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
2,410
Reaction score
1,123
Points
113
Overall I think the hormone is the hormone so the ester doesn't really matter. However, I think I our bodies do react to rapid changes in hormone levels, so short esters might feel like they have more side effects than longer esters, but in my experience, any ester, with proper pinning intervals, feels the same once I reach steady state.
 

automatondan

Elite
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,990
Reaction score
2,509
Points
0
I will say that (as many of you know) I am a heavy aromatizer (or so I thought). Whenever I blast, I have always used longer esters. Anything over 300 test cyp and it can quickly become a nightmare of controlling e2 and bloat. Fast forward to now: I pin 300 test cyp weekly, and then 50-75 mg of TNE daily. Things I have noticed: no need to increase my Ai like I would if I were pinning the same total with cyp alone. Also, I have been on a month and I feel like I'm 8 weeks into my normal blast. It hits fast. I absolutely love it and IMO, it is 100% worth pinning daily. I will never go back to the old way.
 

bvs

Elite
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
2,354
Reaction score
1,731
Points
113
I'm of the belief that the ester should make no difference beyond the half life of the compound (but agree that short esters have a little more compound per dose due to the ester weight)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jin

John Ziegler

Elite
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
8,401
Reaction score
5,613
Points
283
have heard said countless times & pretty sure even the op has said it

there is no difference to be noted between test e & c.

test e is garbage from multiple brands in my experience.

always a pip never feels like a steady flow when injecting once every 5 days

give me prop or cyp fuk enth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jin

TODAY

Elite
SI Founding Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
5,768
Reaction score
14,926
Points
333
have heard said countless times & pretty sure even the op has said it

there is no difference to be noted between test e & c.

test e is garbage from multiple brands in my experience.

always a pip never feels like a steady flow when injecting once every 5 days

give me prop or cyp fuk enth.
Something about the way that China manufactures Test E sometimes leads to an excess of carboxylic acid, which leads to pretty heinous pip.

Enanthate is innocent. Blame China.
 

Mythos

Elite
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
1,424
Reaction score
1,325
Points
113
Thinking about it logically, there may be some differences in how you feel during at either end of the cycle based on differences stability of blood level. Also a quicker ester may change how your body reacts at the start of a cycle. Beyond that, it just doesn't seem like there's any scientific reason esters should make any difference once you are well in to a cycle...they all break down to no ester form, which is what has the effect on our bodies. As long as you're controlling for ester weight and injecting at appropriate intervals to maintain stability.
 

Viduus

Elite
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
2,560
Reaction score
2,382
Points
0
Thinking about it logically, there may be some differences in how you feel during at either end of the cycle based on differences stability of blood level. Also a quicker ester may change how your body reacts at the start of a cycle. Beyond that, it just doesn't seem like there's any scientific reason esters should make any difference once you are well in to a cycle...they all break down to no ester form, which is what has the effect on our bodies. As long as you're controlling for ester weight and injecting at appropriate intervals to maintain stability.

I agree with your logic.... now I’m just wondering if any of us really do it that well in practice. Are all the differences we think were seeing just due to the peaks and valleys or different onset/clearance times...
 

notsoswoleCPA

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
1,414
Reaction score
1,335
Points
113
I had one of my friends tell me that he had estradiol issues with Test No Ester and he was using it as a pre-workout. He even showed me the photos of his moobs at the time, lol.

Personally, besides being administered prop by my original TRT doctor, to my body, Sustanon, Enanthate, and Cypionate seemed to more or less work the same. When he gave me 100 mg of prop and 250 mg of Sustanon after being low-t for who knows how long, it felt like someone installed a turbocharger in my brain. Let's just say that was a weird weekend.

As for nandrolone, I only have experience with deca and never tried NPP. Well, I guess it is about time for me to try NPP!
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
4,172
Reaction score
4,306
Points
193
I had one of my friends tell me that he had estradiol issues with Test No Ester and he was using it as a pre-workout. He even showed me the photos of his moobs at the time, lol.

Personally, besides being administered prop by my original TRT doctor, to my body, Sustanon, Enanthate, and Cypionate seemed to more or less work the same. When he gave me 100 mg of prop and 250 mg of Sustanon after being low-t for who knows how long, it felt like someone installed a turbocharger in my brain. Let's just say that was a weird weekend.

As for nandrolone, I only have experience with deca and never tried NPP. Well, I guess it is about time for me to try NPP!
He was taking TNE along with some other form of test I presume? If so it makes sense that is estradiol could be elevated as he had more test in him.
 

Mythos

Elite
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
1,424
Reaction score
1,325
Points
113
I agree with your logic.... now I’m just wondering if any of us really do it that well in practice. Are all the differences we think were seeing just due to the peaks and valleys or different onset/clearance times...

I think it's probably a combination of ester weight and onset/clearance times.. I have kind of ballparked ester weight to dose for frontloading a deca cycle with NPP but I have never really seen a good chart or anything that makes it easy to calculate how much drug you're actually getting when the ester is done getting metabolized.
It's pretty clear that guys will have sweet spots when it comes to different compounds and if you get out of that perfect range, high or low, the effects and experience changes. This might also be part of why guys will have different experiences with different esters.. We might not be getting the equivalent dose we think unless we do a bunch of calculations with ester weight.
Food for thought
 

rawdeal

Elite
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
1,613
Points
113
. . . but I have never really seen a good chart or anything that makes it easy to calculate how much drug you're actually getting when the ester is done getting metabolized . . .


Last time I mentioned steroidcalc.com and thanked our beloved PoB for mentioning this "useful tool," it awakened all the children in the room, but, here I go again. The main page lets you create a graph of peaks and troughs when you plug in what compound you're planning and the mg's and the frequency you'll be injecting .....

But, there's a link to another page down there on the right, "About this site." THAT one lists ester half-lives AND the % of active aas in most of the common products we might use.
 

Jaydub

Elite
Joined
May 3, 2016
Messages
589
Reaction score
290
Points
63
I've ran all kinds of compounds and esters. In my personal experience tren e was a F*CKING nightmare. Shut my dick all the way off for like 4 months. Then I tried tren A.. and my dick was being abused. Like I was unfair to it.. my poor wife, I just couldn't get enough. So there was the same hormone, different ester. With tren e, once the compound loaded up I was screwed, and it compounded hard. Tren a didn't take as long to release and maximize, the sides and benefits all exploded right away. I feel the performance with the shorter ester as far as tren goes was much better. With test, prop for me didnt compare to E. When the E loaded up after a few weeks I was a monster,.. with prop even shooting ED didn't have me as strong in the gym, my libido wasn't as great. So theres the other end of the spectrum.
 

Tiny

Elite
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
433
Reaction score
376
Points
63
If I do three shots of whiskey at 11pm, at 11:45 I may be on the line with my attorney to post bail
If I sip a triple from 11-11:30, at 11:45 I’m too busy laughing at my own jokes to get in trouble

Rejected BRO SCIENCE PhD candidate
 

Mythos

Elite
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
1,424
Reaction score
1,325
Points
113
Last time I mentioned steroidcalc.com and thanked our beloved PoB for mentioning this "useful tool," it awakened all the children in the room, but, here I go again. The main page lets you create a graph of peaks and troughs when you plug in what compound you're planning and the mg's and the frequency you'll be injecting .....

But, there's a link to another page down there on the right, "About this site." THAT one lists ester half-lives AND the % of active aas in most of the common products we might use.

I'd like to see the study they reference for that list.. I can only see an abstract that doesn't say much. Interesting that they're saying phenylprop has a higher ester weight than enanthate..
 

NbleSavage

Veteran
SI Founding Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
11,987
Reaction score
11,958
Points
383
Good topic, Jin.

I've always gravitated more towards long esters - Test E & C, Tren E, Mast E, EQ, Deca.

Shorters esters didn't provide me with any noticeable advantage either in performance or in sides mitigation, and so primarily for convenience sake I've typically leaned towards pinning long esters less frequently. As per testing how yer body reacts to a new hormone, short esters make sense IMO.
 

New Threads

Top