Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Member Nomad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Buenos Aires
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Question Is it possible to be on a 800 kcal diet without losing muscle?

    Hi everyone. I'm about to start my first cut and I was doing some research when I came across this article:

    Livestrong com/article/13715708-how-to-lose-fat-without-losing-muscle/

    And this portion caught my attention:

    Although this may be contrary to popular belief, a 1999 study published in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition drives home the importance of strength training over cardio for fat loss without muscle loss while in a caloric deficit.

    The study looked at two groups of obese subjects put on identical very low-calorie diets. One group was given an aerobic exercise only protocol (walking, biking, or jogging four times per week), and the other group was given resistance training only three times per week. After 12 weeks, both groups lost weight. The aerobic exercise group lost 37 pounds, 27 of which was fat and ten of which was muscle. However, the resistance-training group lost 32 pounds, and 32 pounds were fat; zero was muscle.

    In other words, the resistance-training group lost significantly more fat and didn't lose any muscle, even at only 800 calories per day, which is far lower than anyone would want to go, but was done in this study in order to take any dietary variables completely out of the equation and compare the effects of the exercise regime on muscle maintenance and metabolism.
    It basically says one of the groups was on a 800kcal diet and they los 32lbs and none of it was muscle thanks to strength training.

    I'm not sure if that study actually exists because it's not listed as a source and I'm not sure where I could find it.

    What do you guys think? Is this possible without taking drugs?

  2. #2
    Elite Straight30weight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    3,837
    Thanks
    1,974
    Thanked 3,765 Times in 1,991 Posts
    Sure. If you eat 800 cals of pure protein
    Size is the prize and swole is the goal

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Straight30weight For This Useful Post:

    Nomad (10-07-2019)

  4. #3
    Elite Iron1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,461
    Thanks
    1,366
    Thanked 3,200 Times in 1,318 Posts
    This is why they say that during a cut, resistance training is more important than ever. Muscle costs calories to maintain and unless the body has reason to hold onto muscle, will shed some as weight drops.

    The 800 calories thing only tends to work for obese individuals and only for so long. Their internal stores make up the difference. People in the normalish weight range shouldn't attempt such a crash diet it even says so in the quoted article.

    Without seeing the study itself it's hard to really say much of the results. The quoted snippet doesn't address either groups average body composition before and after the weight loss. For all we know, the group that lost zero muscle may have had the bare minimum required to survive right from the start.
    My posts are for entertainment purposes only

  5. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Iron1 For This Useful Post:

    CJ275 (10-07-2019),Deadhead (11-26-2019),Nomad (10-07-2019),simplesteve (10-07-2019),Tren4Life (10-07-2019)

  6. #4
    Elite HollyWoodCole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,162
    Thanks
    1,145
    Thanked 1,661 Times in 981 Posts
    A better question would be to ask why do you care?

    What do you weigh? What is your target weight?
    Unicorn Hunter Level - Expert

    !!First Cycle Info - Click Here!!

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to HollyWoodCole For This Useful Post:

    Nomad (10-07-2019)

  8. #5
    Elite motown1002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    with the unicorns
    Posts
    1,779
    Thanks
    1,696
    Thanked 1,708 Times in 975 Posts
    You are asking for the Holy Grail. If we could successfully lose fat without sacrificing any muscle at all everyone would be doing that. You can minimize the muscle loss, but when you are in that much of a calorie deficit, there is no way to maintain your muscle mass. Cole asked a great question...

  9. #6
    Elite Uncle manny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Nj
    Posts
    1,237
    Thanks
    1,976
    Thanked 635 Times in 432 Posts
    Maybe for some one who’s never weight training before and starts this diet and training at the same time...

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Uncle manny For This Useful Post:

    Nomad (10-07-2019)

  11. #7
    Elite Bro Bundy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    13,287
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 7,744 Times in 4,207 Posts
    Only with tren and a lot of it

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bro Bundy For This Useful Post:

    Nomad (10-07-2019),Tren4Life (10-07-2019)

  13. #8
    Member Nomad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Buenos Aires
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Originally Posted by Iron1 View Post
    This is why they say that during a cut, resistance training is more important than ever. Muscle costs calories to maintain and unless the body has reason to hold onto muscle, will shed some as weight drops.

    The 800 calories thing only tends to work for obese individuals and only for so long. Their internal stores make up the difference. People in the normalish weight range shouldn't attempt such a crash diet it even says so in the quoted article.

    Without seeing the study itself it's hard to really say much of the results. The quoted snippet doesn't address either groups average body composition before and after the weight loss. For all we know, the group that lost zero muscle may have had the bare minimum required to survive right from the start.
    You are quite right:

    Last, it's important to note that just because you need to create a caloric deficit doesn't mean that you have to starve yourself or eat an incredibly low calorie diet as was used in the study discuss above, which involved obese individuals.
    Originally Posted by HollyWoodCole View Post
    A better question would be to ask why do you care?

    What do you weigh? What is your target weight?
    I have a chronic disease that makes it easy for me to eat very little, so I'll have no problem mantaining a 800kcal diet for an extended period of time. I figured that if I can get away with it I could do it easily.

    I currently weigh 175lbs (at 5'11, ~16% BF). I'm not sure what my goal weight should be but I want to be at 6-10% BF. Maybe between 10 and 20lbs?

    Originally Posted by motown1002 View Post
    You are asking for the Holy Grail. If we could successfully lose fat without sacrificing any muscle at all everyone would be doing that. You can minimize the muscle loss, but when you are in that much of a calorie deficit, there is no way to maintain your muscle mass. Cole asked a great question...
    I'm not asking for anything, just about some information I read online. I also thought it was too good to be true, that's why I'm here. I was hoping someone had tried something like this before or knew about the study (or similar ones) that was mentioned in the article.
    If you don't draw first, you don't get to draw at all.

  14. #9
    Veteran snake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    North East
    Posts
    9,086
    Thanks
    6,940
    Thanked 12,054 Times in 5,068 Posts
    Answer: not for any length of time.
    Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to snake For This Useful Post:

    Nomad (10-07-2019)

  16. #10
    Elite Tren4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    living the dream
    Posts
    5,067
    Thanks
    7,406
    Thanked 4,364 Times in 2,152 Posts
    Originally Posted by Bro Bundy View Post
    Only with tren and a lot of it

    For once we agree.
    traps are the new abs.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Tren4Life For This Useful Post:

    Bro Bundy (10-07-2019)

  18. #11
    Elite Bro Bundy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    13,287
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 7,744 Times in 4,207 Posts
    Originally Posted by Tren4Life View Post
    For once we agree.
    god dammit!!! NO..hahaha im just joking bro
    Last edited by Bro Bundy; 10-07-2019 at 02:44 PM.

  19. #12
    Elite Iron1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,461
    Thanks
    1,366
    Thanked 3,200 Times in 1,318 Posts
    It is kinda strange to me how often that 800 kcal number is used when assigning weight loss diets for obese individuals.

    The girl has this morbid fascination watching "My 600lb life" and that "doctor" will prescribe a 800 kcal crash diet to each and everyone he sees regardless of how much they were eating before. They could obviously lose a significant portion of weight by cutting out the 3rd daily large pizza but nope, right to 800 every time. Some of these folks are expected to eat no more than 800 calories for however long it takes to lose a few hundred pounds.

    I wonder where that number came from?
    My posts are for entertainment purposes only

  20. #13
    Senior Moderator Spongy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,435
    Thanks
    459
    Thanked 3,495 Times in 1,584 Posts
    PSMF. If you can follow it you will succeed.

    In 1965 a man fasted for 382 days straight, losing 276lbs. He survived on supplements and his body fat. 5 years late he had only gained back about 16lbs.

    Granted, this is extreme. But it shows the resilience of the human metabolism and is a screaming argument against these instaglamour wannabe fitness influencers screaming about how you are "damaging your metabolism" have to "trick the body."

    There is no data that I'm aware of that measured the loss of LBM during the 382 days.
    In need of dieting help? Email me at [email protected]

    Asking pillar how much orals to take is like asking Charlie Sheen how many hookers you should ****. - Jin

    #mUGga

  21. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Spongy For This Useful Post:

    CJ275 (10-08-2019),hit4me (11-26-2019),Nomad (10-07-2019)

  22. #14
    Elite simplesteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    616
    Thanks
    1,648
    Thanked 734 Times in 321 Posts
    Originally Posted by Iron1 View Post
    It is kinda strange to me how often that 800 kcal number is used when assigning weight loss diets for obese individuals.

    The girl has this morbid fascination watching "My 600lb life" and that "doctor" will prescribe a 800 kcal crash diet to each and everyone he sees regardless of how much they were eating before. They could obviously lose a significant portion of weight by cutting out the 3rd daily large pizza but nope, right to 800 every time. Some of these folks are expected to eat no more than 800 calories for however long it takes to lose a few hundred pounds.

    I wonder where that number came from?

    My thinking is the Doc already knows these fat bastards have no self control so basically makes it an extreme cut too show them how serious they need to take it, and gage weather or not they are willing to actually do what it takes.

  23. #15
    Member Nomad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Buenos Aires
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Originally Posted by Spongy View Post
    PSMF. If you can follow it you will succeed.

    In 1965 a man fasted for 382 days straight, losing 276lbs. He survived on supplements and his body fat. 5 years late he had only gained back about 16lbs.

    Granted, this is extreme. But it shows the resilience of the human metabolism and is a screaming argument against these instaglamour wannabe fitness influencers screaming about how you are "damaging your metabolism" have to "trick the body."

    There is no data that I'm aware of that measured the loss of LBM during the 382 days.
    Wow. I'll definitely do more research on PSMF. Thanks.
    If you don't draw first, you don't get to draw at all.

  24. #16
    Elite Beserker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Midgard
    Posts
    710
    Thanks
    655
    Thanked 765 Times in 393 Posts
    I used PSMF successfully many times years ago. It was necessary to shed pounds every so often for me... I always put on muscle easily but fat equally. It’s a great tool, but takes a strong will. I never lost strength, and 3-4 weeks and I would lose that 10-15lbs. ECAs were a must for energy though.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Beserker For This Useful Post:

    Nomad (10-26-2019)

  26. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    5
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Originally Posted by Spongy View Post
    PSMF. If you can follow it you will succeed.

    In 1965 a man fasted for 382 days straight, losing 276lbs. He survived on supplements and his body fat. 5 years late he had only gained back about 16lbs.

    Granted, this is extreme. But it shows the resilience of the human metabolism and is a screaming argument against these instaglamour wannabe fitness influencers screaming about how you are "damaging your metabolism" have to "trick the body."

    There is no data that I'm aware of that measured the loss of LBM during the 382 days.
    This. I have run diets in the 600-800 calorie a day range for 6 months or so and I do not believe I lost any muscle. You may lose some strength in the first few weeks as glycogen depletes and your energy falls, but this is not from actual lean mass loss - and to make it even more of a head game, your muscles will be flat from the glycogen depletion. I think these factors often freak people out and make them think they are eating through muscle, and this just is not the case.

    Your body does not like to use muscle for energy - but it will use it to acquire the amino acids needed for metabolic processes if it has to. This is why high protein in a caloric deficit is so essential.

    Metabolic damage and starvation mode is pretty much a myth that helps people sell training and dieting products.

    Not saying everyone SHOULD eat 800 calories a day, just that it can be done safely with the right setup.

  27. #18
    Elite Deadhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    701
    Thanks
    859
    Thanked 515 Times in 285 Posts
    Originally Posted by Iron1 View Post
    This is why they say that during a cut, resistance training is more important than ever. Muscle costs calories to maintain and unless the body has reason to hold onto muscle, will shed some as weight drops.

    The 800 calories thing only tends to work for obese individuals and only for so long. Their internal stores make up the difference. People in the normalish weight range shouldn't attempt such a crash diet it even says so in the quoted article.

    Without seeing the study itself it's hard to really say much of the results. The quoted snippet doesn't address either groups average body composition before and after the weight loss. For all we know, the group that lost zero muscle may have had the bare minimum required to survive right from the start.
    Exactly what he said!
    Tame your inner bitch!

  28. #19
    Elite andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    621
    Thanks
    409
    Thanked 400 Times in 222 Posts
    i'd say no
    StayHumble - StayHungry.

  29. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    33
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    yes if you eat all protein and take large amount of trenbolone

Similar Threads

  1. Losing weight without effort
    By miss fortune girl in forum Dieting, Nutrition and Supplements
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-22-2018, 03:16 PM
  2. Is it possible to grow breast tissue without getting sore nipples?
    By MDavis in forum New Members Introductions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-02-2018, 10:46 AM
  3. Is it possible to get stronger even if your losing weight slowly?
    By Filipino_español in forum General Chat & Conversation
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-11-2017, 04:42 AM
  4. Powerlifting: 800 Kg in 60 Seconds
    By NbleSavage in forum General Chat & Conversation
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-26-2015, 02:39 PM
  5. Derek Kendall 800 pound front squat. Holy shit.
    By heavydeads83 in forum Powerlifting News and World Records
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-28-2014, 08:50 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •