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  1. #1
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Hey SI,

    I'm finally getting ready to run my first cycle. I will be 28 years old in a few weeks, 6'0, 170 lbs, lean. I'll post up some pics soon. Also will do preliminary blood work before I start the cycle which I will post up as well. This cycle will start in about a month or so.

    Cycle info:

    I have Test E 275, so I plan to run either 1 mg e4d or 2 x a week. which is either 481.25 mg per week or 550 mg per week.

    I plan to run Test for 12 weeks.

    I plan to switch over to Test Prop for the last 3 weeks in order to more accurately estimate the hormone clearing my system and the beginning of PCT. Run the prop at maybe 125mg eod, which is 437.5mg per week. However, since we all know prop has more hormone per mg than enanthate, I think this should be roughly equilivant to the 481.25mg of enanthate per week. I can't seem to find the thread that has all of the weights of hormone of each ester right now.

    I have also decided that I'd like to add anavar to this cycle. I'd like the extra strength gains, I like lean muscle, I don't really want to get bloated, etc. Might as well go a little bigger if I'm gonna do it.

    I'm thinking anavar weeks 5-12 @ 50mg/day or 75mg/day.

    I am planning on running HCG e3d @250IU during cycle, then a blast of maybe 500IU EOD for 10 days after I stop the prop. Then its on to a standard nolva/clomid PCT.

    I will have aromasin on hand. was thinking about running it really low, like 6.25/day from the beginning and seeing how I feel from there. Or I may just hold on to it until I need it. Also considering running it during PCT.

    So, in summary.

    Weeks 1-9 Test E @ 481.25 mg/week
    Weeks 10-12 Test prop @ 437.5 mg/week
    Weeks 5-12 Anavar @ 50 or 75 mg/day
    Weeks 1-12 HCG @ 250IU e3d
    Aromasin on hand

    Day after last Prop injection: HCG blast, 500IU EOD for 10 days

    Day after HCG blast, start PCT
    clomid 50/50/50/50
    Nolva 20/20/10/10/10/10
    Aromasin 25mg ED during PCT

    Please give any and all feedback. I'm sure this is far from perfect and I'd love to hear what everyone thinks.

    I'm especially concerned about:

    1. How exactly to time switching from Enanthate to Prop as far as injection schedule goes.

    2. My HCG blast and the amount I should use for it, given that I've run it @ 250 e3d all cycle.

    Thanks for the advice guys!

  2. #2
    Zeek
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    First off, you have done a great job researching!

    I personally do not like to use any hcg during PCT, every time that I have done so my recovery seems to have been drug out longer.

    If you really want to do an hcg blast perhaps skip the prop at the end idea and just start the blast the day after last test E inject. which would be at the end of week 12 in this case.

    Since test will take a while to kick in maybe run the var weeks 1-7 or 8 at the front end of the cycle so things get moving for you faster than wiating 4-5 weeks for the test E to fully kick in.

    Also for PCt the nolva and clomid will handle any gyno that could come your way from the crash phase, you really are helped by it since that sends additional signals for your body to start producing it's own testosterone.

    PCT and hcg use is not an exact science, so many guys play with things and do things differently and still recover! You will have to try different things over your future cycles and then better for you to decide what works best for you.

    Good work over all putting the cycle together and doing your research!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Thanks for the response my man!

    I was considering maybe just running the HCG as stated through the cycle, and then just going directly into PCT without a blast. I guess if I keep my Leydig cells recieving signals the whole cycle my testes should be ready to go into PCT without an additional HCG blast right?

    Also, are you saying that I shouldn't use an AI during PCT? that clomid and nolva will be adequate to do the job? I read a few recommendations elsewhere that aromasin during PCT is helpful.

    Frontloading the anavar isn't a bad idea either, both the front and back load have their appeal. I'd love to hear opinions from others about which would be better for me.

  4. #4
    Elite PillarofBalance's Avatar
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    No gear for you!!! 170lbs at 6 feet means you Aren't eating. Not flaming OP but you're not ready.
    "Overzealous dosing" -Jin

    Rest in Peace Robot Lord. First round of Natty Boh is on me when I make it up there with you brother.

  5. #5
    Zeek
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    I never fully understood the use of an Ai during PCT since you won't get gyno using clomid and nolva. All it will be doing is reducing system wide estrogen which as I pointed out is not a bad thing in PCT! can really speed things up, your body receiving signals from different sources to kick start production, higher than normal estrogen will trigger the body to kick out some test!

    We do have fans of the hcg blast here hopefully they chime in with their experiences for you

  6. #6
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Originally Posted by PillarofBalance View Post
    No gear for you!!! 170lbs at 6 feet means you Aren't eating. Not flaming OP but you're not ready.
    I understand your concern POB, and I was expecting someone to say something along those lines, but I believe that I do understand diet pretty well. My goal hasn't always been to gain weight. For a while I was comfortable being super lean @ 150 lbs, lots of running, sports, strength/endurance lifting, super duper clean and fairly light diet... But I've shifted my focus and gained 20 lbs.

    What weight is the acceptable gear starting weight for a 6' 28 year old in your opinion?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    I never fully understood the use of an Ai during PCT since you won't get gyno using clomid and nolva. All it will be doing is reducing system wide estrogen which as I pointed out is not a bad thing in PCT! can really speed things up, your body receiving signals from different sources to kick start production, higher than normal estrogen will trigger the body to kick out some test!

    We do have fans of the hcg blast here hopefully they chime in with their experiences for you
    Yeah I'd love to hear other peoples opinions and experience with the AI during PCT vs. no AI during PCT debate

  8. #8
    Elite noobmuscle's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    This might just be an matter of opinion but I would look towards something like this:

    1-8: Anavar
    1-4 Test prop
    1-12 Test-E

    I would do this for more kick at the beginning. Jumping from long ester to short is going to give you more kick at the end which is odd to me personally. Its not hard timing PCT coming off a long ester. 14 days from last injection is usually efficient. Once again though, just personal preference. i like the kick at the beginning because once that long estered test kicks in, that all the kick I need anyway!

  9. #9
    Elite Bro Bundy's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Im not sure if I go with the whole you gotta be 230 to do gear bs...I got a good friend he was 33 years old at 140 pounds lol started a test cycle by week 10 mother****ers up 30 pounds says he never felt this good in his life.He also says going to the gym eating right and doing gear saved his life cause he was headed in the wrong direction before he started.Not everyone can start gear at 230 some of us start at 180 and 170 and 140.Bahaha

  10. #10
    Elite noobmuscle's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    Yeah I'd love to hear other peoples opinions and experience with the AI during PCT vs. no AI during PCT debate
    I have always ran an AI through PCT to combat the possibility of rebound estro.

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    Elite gymrat827's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Originally Posted by noobmuscle View Post
    This might just be an matter of opinion but I would look towards something like this:

    1-8: Anavar
    1-4 Test prop
    1-12 Test-E

    !
    i also like this. but you do want to gain 10-12 lb before starting, eat 100-200 extra clean cals each meal for a month...

    see where that takes you

  12. #12
    Member Pikiki's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    I like your plan bro and like is being said already front or back load is just a personal preffrence. Ai on PCT is not a must but it can be usefull for estro rebound like Nood said. HCG this is an area of very diffrent opinions as well, I didn`t run hcg during cycle but blast before PCT and my recovery looks to going fine. I think if you run hcg on cycle no need for blast at the end or viceverse. About wieght to start gear or not my opinion if you know what you do and know how to workout for me weight doesn`t matter if your not under weight like said your 6' at 130. That is very low and diet needs improvement but at your height and weight I don`t see why you are not ready for it. You really did your homework about AAS good job.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Originally Posted by noobmuscle View Post
    This might just be an matter of opinion but I would look towards something like this:

    1-8: Anavar
    1-4 Test prop
    1-12 Test-E

    I would do this for more kick at the beginning. Jumping from long ester to short is going to give you more kick at the end which is odd to me personally. Its not hard timing PCT coming off a long ester. 14 days from last injection is usually efficient. Once again though, just personal preference. i like the kick at the beginning because once that long estered test kicks in, that all the kick I need anyway!
    Yeah, that setup would definitely give me the full 12 weeks with my test levels jacked up instead of waiting for the enanthate to build up in my system. I was thinking with it being my first cycle and all it might not be so bad to let it build slowly and ease into it rather than blast my test levels immediately. I'm not sure as a first cycle I need to go that aggressive with the kickstart.

    Then again, if I'm gonna do it maybe I might as well kick up my test levels for the whole 12 weeks. I'll think about it.

    Going with the anavar for the first 8 weeks instead of the last 8 might be a better call though.

    Thanks for your feedback, definitely something to think about.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Originally Posted by Brother Bundy View Post
    Im not sure if I go with the whole you gotta be 230 to do gear bs...I got a good friend he was 33 years old at 140 pounds lol started a test cycle by week 10 mother****ers up 30 pounds says he never felt this good in his life.He also says going to the gym eating right and doing gear saved his life cause he was headed in the wrong direction before he started.Not everyone can start gear at 230 some of us start at 180 and 170 and 140.Bahaha
    I do fully understand the reason that I hear 'you're not big enough yet, not ready' etc. on many beginner threads on different forums. Plenty of people get on gear without having the discipline in their diet and training to really benefit from it. Or without having a decent base of muscle. Especially younger people.

    On the other hand, I don't think you can say just from someone's height and weight where they are in their training and discipline. I could be 6' 170, super low bodyfat, small pelvic structure and bone structure which makes me lighter than average, deadlifting 3x my bodyweight OR I could be 6' 170 and out of shape and been in the gym 3 months. I have always found it interesting the very small amount of information people on boards use to make that call. There are so many possible body types and levels of training that "6' 170 lbs" could describe.

    I'm not saying this warning is dumb, for plenty of people I'm sure its the right advice. However, once someone makes the decision to use AAS, I doubt there is much someone on a forum who they don't even know can do to stop them.

  15. #15
    Elite PillarofBalance's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    I do fully understand the reason that I hear 'you're not big enough yet, not ready' etc. on many beginner threads on different forums. Plenty of people get on gear without having the discipline in their diet and training to really benefit from it. Or without having a decent base of muscle. Especially younger people.

    On the other hand, I don't think you can say just from someone's height and weight where they are in their training and discipline. I could be 6' 170, super low bodyfat, small pelvic structure and bone structure which makes me lighter than average, deadlifting 3x my bodyweight OR I could be 6' 170 and out of shape and been in the gym 3 months. I have always found it interesting the very small amount of information people on boards use to make that call. There are so many possible body types and levels of training that "6' 170 lbs" could describe.

    I'm not saying this warning is dumb, for plenty of people I'm sure its the right advice. However, once someone makes the decision to use AAS, I doubt there is much someone on a forum who they don't even know can do to stop them.
    Small amount of info is all I need. Using your example, tall and skinny learn to eat more. Short and fat learn to eat right.

    The OP does not have the foundation. Says so himself. He liked being lean now he wants to grow. Learn to grow naturally thru eating first. I would bet money he loses everything he gains after PCT.

    Is there a set height weight? Of course not and it depends on your goal. I don't think you have to be super lean 10% BF or over some mystery weight... But he just changed up his goal and immediately wants to juice. Show some commitment to growing first. It's a lot harder than staying lean.
    "Overzealous dosing" -Jin

    Rest in Peace Robot Lord. First round of Natty Boh is on me when I make it up there with you brother.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Originally Posted by Pikiki View Post
    I like your plan bro and like is being said already front or back load is just a personal preffrence. Ai on PCT is not a must but it can be usefull for estro rebound like Nood said. HCG this is an area of very diffrent opinions as well, I didn`t run hcg during cycle but blast before PCT and my recovery looks to going fine. I think if you run hcg on cycle no need for blast at the end or viceverse. About wieght to start gear or not my opinion if you know what you do and know how to workout for me weight doesn`t matter if your not under weight like said your 6' at 130. That is very low and diet needs improvement but at your height and weight I don`t see why you are not ready for it. You really did your homework about AAS good job.
    Thanks Piki, yeah the HCG thing seems to be just something I'm overthinking, Cobra pretty much laid it out to me that I'll be fine no matter how I use it so I can just pick a plan and be happy with it. I just love to try to optimize everything and fine tune every detail you know?

    As far as starting weight, yeah if I wanted to be 280 5% bodyfat and compete some day I'd definitely want to push my weight up before I get on AAS, but really I don't want to get over 200 lbs, lean and hard and strong, maybe even 190 when I'm really lean. And ultimately I don't see a huge downside to using AAS to help me get where I want to be. It's well understood, side effects are potential negatives are well understood, I've studied them, and I think odds are I'll come out of this exactly the same health-wise as I went in, but closer to my fitness goals, and maybe with a little less hair on my head

  17. #17
    Elite PillarofBalance's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brother Bundy View Post
    Im not sure if I go with the whole you gotta be 230 to do gear bs...I got a good friend he was 33 years old at 140 pounds lol started a test cycle by week 10 mother****ers up 30 pounds says he never felt this good in his life.He also says going to the gym eating right and doing gear saved his life cause he was headed in the wrong direction before he started.Not everyone can start gear at 230 some of us start at 180 and 170 and 140.Bahaha
    Where were his test levels prior to the cycle? I wonder if he was hypogonadal...
    "Overzealous dosing" -Jin

    Rest in Peace Robot Lord. First round of Natty Boh is on me when I make it up there with you brother.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Originally Posted by PillarofBalance View Post
    Small amount of info is all I need. Using your example, tall and skinny learn to eat more. Short and fat learn to eat right.

    The OP does not have the foundation. Says so himself. He liked being lean now he wants to grow. Learn to grow naturally thru eating first. I would bet money he loses everything he gains after PCT.

    Is there a set height weight? Of course not and it depends on your goal. I don't think you have to be super lean 10% BF or over some mystery weight... But he just changed up his goal and immediately wants to juice. Show some commitment to growing first. It's a lot harder than staying lean.
    Fair enough Pillar. I will give serious consideration to your suggestion that I gain more weight before starting.

    Out of curiosity though, what would you say is my lowest acceptable starting weight? 6', ___ lbs.

    Just so I have an idea of how much more progress you think I should have before starting AAS.

    Edit:

    I just re-read your previous post where you said there is no magic number for starting weight, sorry, i'm not trying to be a dick about this.

    I'm just confused as it seemed you made your initial assessment of my not being ready based on my height and weight stats, but now you are saying there isn't really a height-to-weight ratio or number that would indicate I am ready in your opinion. Maybe you based this assessment on looking at my avatar combined with height and weight stats?

    Also, just to clarify, I wouldn't say I 'just' changed my goals and want instant gratification. As I said, I changed them a while ago, and have gained 20 lbs naturally. Which suggests to me that perhaps I do understand something about how to gain weight naturally.

  19. #19
    Elite DF's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    How much do you guys think genetic potential weighs in on when to start aas? I for one have a take small bone structure & joints. As an example my dad at 30 years of age when he got out of the army weighed 130lbs @ 5'10". So just going by this when I graduated high school I was 5'10" and 155. Still very small, but ahead of where my dad was weight wise @ 30.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    Re: First cycle critique. Test + Anavar.

    Originally Posted by Dfeaton View Post
    How much do you guys think genetic potential weighs in on when to start aas? I for one have a take small bone structure & joints. As an example my dad at 30 years of age when he got out of the army weighed 130lbs @ 5'10". So just going by this when I graduated high school I was 5'10" and 155. Still very small, but ahead of where my dad was weight wise @ 30.
    Yeah this is sort of what I'm getting at too.

    For example, I have a friend whose build looks very similar to mine. If you saw us with clothes on walking down the street you would probably think we weighed about the same. But he has what seems to be a bigger pelvis/upper leg/torso structure that he just seems to carry more weight in. He weights 200 lbs to my 170.

    I could be wrong but I do think bone structure and geometry, plus genetics, can have a major impact on body weight, shape and appearance relative to training progress.

    How all this relates to when to start AAS I don't really know since I'm still very new to the game.

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