Var vs. Test

[Redemption79]

Both what Snake said and Seeker. I vacation twice a year, October and April. I like to look my leanest on vacation, and I follow a similar approach. The best I've looked has been on TRT dose test and a little bit of mast the last weeks prior to vacation. Four weeks isn't quite enough to get all the water off, six weeks works about right for me. Even contest prepped you're only gonna hold that line for a day or two. So I'd recommend, first what Seeker said, second if you run a cycle, run it up to 6 weeks before your trip, then trt test and 50mg ananvar until vacation time. This of course with strict diet discipline and a healthy dose of cardio in the mix.

Thanks Bricks.
So, your method is to drop to TRT maintenance dosage 6 weeks out, not a complete cessation of exogenous test, correct? What ester are you using in this protocol?

 

[Redemption79]

Ok, a little update...
I postponed starting this until I got bloodwork back; It just came in today.

I've been taking 160mg/week cyp + 0.25mg Adex 2x/week + 500iu HCG 2x/week. Blood was taken 10 days after test injection and 6 days after 0.25mg Adex.
Results:

Total Test: 1042 ng/dl
Estradiol: 40.7 pg/ml
Hematocrit: 45.9%

E2 is pretty high at only 160mg test cyp/week. At my TRT dose, I think increasing the dose to 0.5mg 2x/week would be appropriate, but at 400-500mg test prop/week I'm thinking 1mg 2x/week or perhaps 0.5mg 3x/week would be a good place to start. Any thoughts?

 

[Jin]

Ok, a little update...
I postponed starting this until I got bloodwork back; It just came in today.

I've been taking 160mg/week cyp + 0.25mg Adex 2x/week + 500iu HCG 2x/week. Blood was taken 10 days after test injection and 6 days after 0.25mg Adex.
Results:

Total Test: 1042 ng/dl
Estradiol: 40.7 pg/ml
Hematocrit: 45.9%

E2 is pretty high at only 160mg test cyp/week. At my TRT dose, I think increasing the dose to 0.5mg 2x/week would be appropriate, but at 400-500mg test prop/week I'm thinking 1mg 2x/week or perhaps 0.5mg 3x/week would be a good place to start. Any thoughts?

My thoughts are you are one lucky mother****er to have 1000+ 10 days after a 160mg injection.

 

[Gabriel]

I'm thinking more young than lucky...

 

[Redemption79]

I'm thinking more young than lucky...

I'm 40. Total test was 317 before I started TRT.
I am taking HCG as well, for what it's worth.

 

[bigdog]

I do it just like SNAKE said but i do run the VAR the whole time. I love results from test/var. My test was 299 when i started TRT. Good luck brother and let us know what you went with and how it turns out for ya!

 

[Gabriel]

40 isn't old,but you're getting there...did all my PR's at 42....Good Luck

 

[Redemption79]

An update for anyone paying attention...

As much as I dig Snake's suggested protocol, I had to adjust it a bit. I don't currently have access to test prop, so I'm using test phenylprop instead. It's not as ideal as prop, but should be better than cyp for the intended purpose here.
Currently dosing at 140mg E3D, with 0.5mg anastrozole taken with each injection. This translates to ~325mg/week, which I realize is a modest dose, but given the circumstances, I want to see how I react to this increase first, for a couple reasons:

- My TT was 1042 ng/dl 10 days after a 160mg test cyp. injection (after weeks of 160mg/week). This seems like a fairly good response, so I want to see where I'm at at 2X that amount before upping the dosage. So far, no issues, other than a perceived increase in BP at times. I've been pissed off a couple times and felt a bit of a headrush feeling...BP at the time has been 140s/80s. Normal relaxed BP is 120s over 70s, so nothing to be concerned with yet, but I do notice a difference.

- E2 was at the top end of the reference range at my previous dose of 0.25mg 2x/week using 160mg test/week. I want to see how my E2 levels respond to the increase in test and Adex before again increasing the dose. While I may get a greater benefit at 500mg/week, I'd rather be sure I have my E2 levels in range than make a stupid mistake being impatient. I've always had an issue of storing a bit of fat around the nipple area, so I really don't want to be reckless with my estrogen levels.

I haven't started the var yet, but plan to in a couple weeks if all goes well.

I appreciate the feedback I've gotten so far, and I'm open to any suggestions along the way. This is a learning experience for me as much as it is a performance enhancement, so if I compromise from an optimum cycle to a modest one in favor of taking a cautious approach, that's fine with me.

 

[ToolSteel]

Shit. I was only considering the added time from the longer ester at the end of the cycle, not the beginning. That makes sense Snake. I was trying to avoid pinning EOD with prop, but I suppose it is what it is. I considered continuing my cyp dose as is, and adding prop on top of that, but I'd still probably end up pinning as often.

Thanks for the insight; that's why im here.

anything is possible if you frontload 3 grams

 

[ToolSteel]

I'm thinking more young than lucky...

Nah he's actually old as shit. Not that it works that way anyway. I'm similar to him; around 800 is my lowest level on 100/wk.

 

[Redemption79]

Nah he's actually wise as shit. Not that it works that way anyway. I'm similar to him; around 800 is my lowest level on 100/wk.

....Fixed.

 

[ripper]

I'd do this too... Snake's advice is on point but if you want to have the best look, the var all the way through is the way to go.

 

[Redemption79]

Moar updates...

I'm about a week and a half into Anavar at this point; dosed at 40mg/day. Yesterday's workout was great. I went hard and the pump was another level. I've also noticed a slight increase in muscular endurance, or at least recovery in between sets, and a little more inflammation after workouts. I'm definitely noticing a hardening effect even outside the gym, somewhat in a welcome way and somewhat not so much. Muscles getting harder is great...I feel almost as if I have a little bit of a pump all the time. The drawbacks are the pumps I get in my lower back, shins, and calves.

Cardio endurance has always been (genetically) a weakness for me. For this reason (and a few others, like general heart health) I train harder than some when it comes to cardio, and I keep at it so I don't lose the endurance I've earned. For example, the majority (but not all) of my cardio work is running on the treadmill, and I've logged over 80 miles so far in the month of December (significantly more than most 200lb guys I know). This also of course plays a role in keeping my caloric intake at a deficit.

Because of my activity level, and not being a skinny runner-type, I do battle with shin splints, calve pain, and a little bit of perpetual leg soreness. The last couple days this has been rough. Last night my shins were already sore when I started and the shin pumps I got were enough to make me stop early, which is something I almost never do. Tonight I was near the end of my run (had fought a mild lower back pump the entire time), and my right calf cramped up abruptly, to the point that I wasn't sure if it was an actual injury, or a cramp. I can't afford to sideline myself from cardio, so I need to get this under control.

At this point, I'm using the following excuses:
-Poor sleep the last couple nights likely hasn't helped
-Christmas/Eve were the first two days that I haven't eaten clean in months, and the sugar I consumed doesn't help.
-My legs are wasted from training legs Monday, running an outdoor race-pace 5k on Wednesday, and treadmill the last couple days.

With that said, I'm aware of the fact that Anavar (and orals in general) can cause these issues in some people (I've had them before with dht-based steroids), and there's not a lot you can do about it.
My plan is to get some rest, try the bike or eliptical for a couple days, and start supplementing Electrolytes.

Anybody have any other advice/suggestions in regard to mitigation of cramps and back/shin/calf pumps?
I've never had results from Taurine, as many people suggest.

 

[TheSpectre]

Real Var over 40mg/day kills my appetite. It's great for me losing fat.

 

[ripper]

For estrogen control, look into DIM. I've had great luck with it at 300mg 2x/day. In the rare instance estrogen gets a step on me, I doulbe that dose up for a few days and I seem to get back where I want to be. I do keep some aromasin around just in case but rarely have to use it.

 

[Redemption79]

I suppose it's time for another update...not trying to turn this into a log, but it seems like most of these threads end abruptly and you never know whether the OP got the results they were looking for or not...

I've limited my time on the treadmill and instead spent more time on alternative cardio machines. I've been using the Arc trainer a lot, which I find difficult to achieve the same heart rate for a prolonged period that I would get from running, but I still get a quality heart workout (HR ~150s for 30-60minutes) , and engage some muscles that I otherwise wouldn't have. I'll still get a run in on the treadmill maybe once/week just because I feel a bit greater sense of achievement when I do, and I can better relate to running metrics to gauge progress/maintenance.

-Shin/back/calf pumps and cramps are for the most part gone and not an issue at this point. I think supplementing electrolytes has helped, but mostly I think it just took me a couple weeks to adapt to a new chemical, biologically and via training method. Tendons/joints actually feel better than they did before starting Var.

-Strength is pretty steady...there are a couple lifts that I've actually added a rep or two on, but for most I'm staying consistent. I'm eating at a significant caloric deficit, so I'm happy with that.

-Weight has also been fairly consistent (I'm 5'9", 200lbs.). I planned on dropping weight, but it hasn't happened. I've lost an inch around my waist though, and nowhere else, so getting more of a recomp effect. Increased vascularity is noticable as well.

I dropped test pp for a week and a half, then went back to a low TRT dose with cyp, which I will stay at for the remainder, along with 50mg anavar/day.

 

[Redemption79]

Thanks to those who contributed here. Snake outlined a great plan, and I'm happy with the outcome (despite the fact that I mitigated results by shortening the time frame and used Test pp instead of prop). I'm packing stuff now and will be on a plane later this week, sitting at about 3-4% lower bf than when I started this thread. I'm loving the muscle hardness and vascularity right now, and I'm not the only one. I've gotten a number of comments and looks about my appearance lately, from the wife and a few others.

I dropped 3 pounds over the duration of most this cut, and then another 3.5lbs. suddenly over the last few days (the 3.5lbs is visually noticeable too; I was obviously retaining some water). Timing couldn't have been any more perfect. I might do a few things differently if I did this again, but honestly, not much. A longer time period would have allowed me to get more out of this than the mini cycle I did here, but for the time I had, results and (lack of) sides were spot-on.

Once I return from vacation, I'll be back in a slight caloric deficit and back on my standard TRT dose for a while. This cycle was pretty short and modest, so my plan is to finish cutting at normal hormone levels, get bloodwork, and if everything looks good, plan a proper test cycle once I'm back at maintenance.

 

[Gibsonator]

sounds like a good plan dude.