Joshua Usyk thoughts? Predictions?

[Long]

Looks like the man is finally getting his shot. Undefeated at cruiserweight and now getting a title shot at heavy. Well deserved at that in my opinion.

I'm horribly biased as I'm a Usyk fan but I believe Usyk wins the decision in 12. I believe he is probably the most technically proficient boxer at the top of the heap. He is also very good at self adjusting and strategizing.

I'm actually exited for this one even though the chance of a knockout is probably pretty low.

 

[rawdeal]

After the Joshua-Ruiz snoozefest, we see that Joshua can and will become more of a dancer than a fighter if he is afraid of the opponent. Ruiz had really gotten into his head in the first fight, and last night's track meet was the result. Not sure about a Joshua-Usyk fight because I'm not sure which Joshua will show up. If he fights, his size might win the day, but if he dances again a quicker Usyk might catch him enough to outpoint him. Given AJ's questionable chin (the 1st Ruiz fight plus the rumors of shaky sparring before both Ruiz fights), the smaller Usyk might even ko him if Joshua's only game is evasion. My guess is AJ will try a hybrid style; he seemed too pleased with his newfound dancing skills to let go of them completely, but he will also pick his spots to turn on the aggression against a smaller opponent. If that's the case, the remaining question is can he hurt Usyk or not.

 

[Long]

After the Joshua-Ruiz snoozefest, we see that Joshua can and will become more of a dancer than a fighter if he is afraid of the opponent. Ruiz had really gotten into his head in the first fight, and last night's track meet was the result. Not sure about a Joshua-Usyk fight because I'm not sure which Joshua will show up. If he fights, his size might win the day, but if he dances again a quicker Usyk might catch him enough to outpoint him. Given AJ's questionable chin (the 1st Ruiz fight plus the rumors of shaky sparring before both Ruiz fights), the smaller Usyk might even ko him if Joshua's only game is evasion. My guess is AJ will try a hybrid style; he seemed too pleased with his newfound dancing skills to let go of them completely, but he will also pick his spots to turn on the aggression against a smaller opponent. If that's the case, the remaining question is can he hurt Usyk or not.

My counter to that (and I think it fits all the top 5 guys Usyk may face in the heavyweight division) you can't get on the bike and ride against Usyk.

He knows how to work the ring, and cut fighters off.
Usyk first fight at heavyweight I think showed he has enough power to be dangerous to anyone in the game.

I agree on Joshua. He is gun shy and I think he is damaged goods.

 

[rawdeal]

"Damaged" goods is nice, and manifests itself in different ways. Patterson seemed damaged after his 1st fight with Johansen, but he starched him in the 2nd fight and survived a battle in the 3rd to win that one too. Then, he got re-damaged even before the 2 Liston fights. Wlad was damaged twice but returned to have a very successful career, albeit as more of a chess player than a warrior. Lewis, ko'd twice by inferior opponents, returns to become what many consider a top 5 ever HWT. My hunch is AJ will not still be fondly remembered 5 years from now. Not sure if Wilder's star will burn as brightly 5-10 yrs from now or if, like a prime Tyson, there will have been 2 separate chapters to his story. Sure wish Vitali had stuck around longer, or had had a better group of opponents by which to judge him.

Fantasy match: if the 2 Klits had been able to meet, unencumbered by family loyalty complications, who ya got?
Fantasy #2: how do you think this Usyk you're high on would have done against Ali, Foreman, Tyson, Holyfield or Lewis?

 

[Long]

"Damaged" goods is nice, and manifests itself in different ways. Patterson seemed damaged after his 1st fight with Johansen, but he starched him in the 2nd fight and survived a battle in the 3rd to win that one too. Then, he got re-damaged even before the 2 Liston fights. Wlad was damaged twice but returned to have a very successful career, albeit as more of a chess player than a warrior. Lewis, ko'd twice by inferior opponents, returns to become what many consider a top 5 ever HWT. My hunch is AJ will not still be fondly remembered 5 years from now. Not sure if Wilder's star will burn as brightly 5-10 yrs from now or if, like a prime Tyson, there will have been 2 separate chapters to his story. Sure wish Vitali had stuck around longer, or had had a better group of opponents by which to judge him.

Fantasy match: if the 2 Klits had been able to meet, unencumbered by family loyalty complications, who ya got?
Fantasy #2: how do you think this Usyk you're high on would have done against Ali, Foreman, Tyson, Holyfield or Lewis?

Ooooo, asking a fan to put his current against the greats! I like this game.

Ali? Usyk wins on points goes the distance. Ali thrived goading guys into mistakes, Usyk is the level headed chess master.

Foreman? Controversial opinion, I don't think he belongs in the conversation of great fighters. Not the first time around. And I think te second time around it was B.S., a setup to put asses in seats. He couldn't even hang with a coked up Morrison. Who was great but squandered it and at the time they met Morrison was not at his best.

Mike Tyson? In his prime? There isnt a boxer who has walked this earth that I would bet on against a prime Tyson with Cus in his corner

Hollyfield? Usyk is the better boxer in my opinion. Same with Lewis.

I also think Usyk would beat Wilder on points going the distance as long as he didn't eat the whip.

I think Usyk would put on a damn clinic against Fury. Fury will probably avoid him like the plague.

The brothers fight? I don't know. I am betting that one brother knows the others weaknesses very well and would expose him in seconds. Which one I have no idea.

 

[rawdeal]

Wow. So should we anoint Usyk as the G.O.A.T. right now, or should we wait a bit for appearance's sake? I'm interested, I like him, I would be higher on him if HWTs had remained at or under 6'2" and 210lbs, but that's not the world Usyk will be facing today. He has had one fight @ HWT, against an aging last minute replacement named Chazz Witherspoon whose 38 wins include only 1 recognizable name, Ty Cobb, a human punching bag and sometime movie actor. The 3 losses were to known names, but known for what, Seth Mitchell, Chris Arreola and Tony Thompson. I will give Usyk more credit if and when he beats better people than Witherspoon. I have a hard time separating prime Tyson from the crashed and burned Tyson, but, yeah, prime Mike against anybody would be interesting. Cus was the guiding light, but should we credit him or Kevin Rooney more, or even Atlas? What you say about Wilder is true for several competent HWTs ... avoid the KO and have a chance of a UD. I think (maybe) only Fury with his long, awkward and clever attributes can do it. Not sure if Usyk's speed and moves can untangle Fury's arms or not ... maybe. As to the brothers, I say Vitali's chin beats Wlad's every time.

 

[Long]

Wow. So should we anoint Usyk as the G.O.A.T. right now, or should we wait a bit for appearance's sake? I'm interested, I like him, I would be higher on him if HWTs had remained at or under 6'2" and 210lbs, but that's not the world Usyk will be facing today. He has had one fight @ HWT, against an aging last minute replacement named Chazz Witherspoon whose 38 wins include only 1 recognizable name, Ty Cobb, a human punching bag and sometime movie actor. The 3 losses were to known names, but known for what, Seth Mitchell, Chris Arreola and Tony Thompson. I will give Usyk more credit if and when he beats better people than Witherspoon. I have a hard time separating prime Tyson from the crashed and burned Tyson, but, yeah, prime Mike against anybody would be interesting. Cus was the guiding light, but should we credit him or Kevin Rooney more, or even Atlas? What you say about Wilder is true for several competent HWTs ... avoid the KO and have a chance of a UD. I think (maybe) only Fury with his long, awkward and clever attributes can do it. Not sure if Usyk's speed and moves can untangle Fury's arms or not ... maybe. As to the brothers, I say Vitali's chin beats Wlad's every time.

Furys legs are his weakness. He's not a natural athlete and lacks balance. He has almost taken himself out more than once. Unlike Wilder who uses his legs to his advantage. Fury likes to flash his feet, but it's all just a show.

Cus built the style. Cus built Mike up and showed him what was possible. It was mental and physical. It was making him family. Cus gets the credit equally with Mike Tyson in my book.

It's hard to compare the "greats" of yesterday to today. People give Ali a lot of credit, but dismiss Marciano. Marciano stopped punches with his face and pulverized men into retirement and never missed a beat. He did it under 200lbs at that.

How about Dempsey? The list goes on. How do we even compare a guy who could go 20+ under the sun to a modern fighter?

The reason I put prime Tyson so high is the peekaboo style. It's not for everyone. It does however level the playing field if you have the right fighter for it.

Tyson at his prime fought square and switchfoot. He hopped in on the jab and didn't hang out in front of his opponents. He came in shuffling changing head slots and could leap deep into it on either side.

Tyson could go hook to the body and load and fire the same hand uppercut faster than most guys could react to being hit.

Hop in deep and end a combo across the front of his opponent. All that shit was the genus of Cus.

Punches built off ducks and slips coming in hard because the opponent can't see you loading up underneath.

My favorite interview is when Cus and Ali are talking and playing around and Ali says "I beat your fighter."
Cus says something like "No you didn't, if he was my fighter still you would have lost.":32 (18):

I say Usyk beats Ali because Usyk is physically in better shape and fights with a modern style that frankly Ali helped shape.

I say Iron Mike beats anyone because nobody answered the style combined with Tyson.

Mike beat himself long before he lost in the ring. His skills starting to degrade right around the same time he won the belt.

When I say prime Tyson this is what I am taking about.

https://youtu.be/dFdNlxlbsrU

 

[Long]

https://www.boxingscene.com/bellew-usyk-beat-wilder-not-joshua-fury--145004

“I just don’t think he’s big enough for Fury or AJ. I do actually think he’d beat Deontay Wilder, not gonna lie. I think technically he’d make Deontay Wilder look absolutely ridiculous. And Wilder will know that, so won’t touch him. Styles make fights," Bellew said.


Interesting take. I actually think Fury won't touch him for the same reason. I go a step further and give him the technical edge over Joshua as well.

 

[andy]

i believe Usyk win by points.

 

[rawdeal]

AJ's got mandatories. What I'm hearing is he'll take Pulev first, Usyk later. Does not look like Ruiz can talk his way into a trilogy anytime soon.

 

[Long]

AJ's got mandatories. What I'm hearing is he'll take Pulev first, Usyk later. Does not look like Ruiz can talk his way into a trilogy anytime soon.

I believe Usyk mentioned he wants the fight, but has another fight in the works that both fighters want and is easy to line up.

But, Joshua is giving up belts if he doesn't take the Usyk fight, he's a mandatory.

Ruiz didn't earn a trilogy. He's got a hard road ahead. I wish him luck. All kidding aside we all have our mountains to climb.

 

[rawdeal]

. . . But, Joshua is giving up belts if he doesn't take the Usyk fight, he's a mandatory . . .

Boxing's fukked, although it goes back yrs before this. Usyk IS a mandatory. But, Pulev is ALSO a mandatory. Promoters have a way of fixing messes like this with money, as in, pay off Pulev's people and include a next fight guarantee for Pulev to get the winner. That is probably how it will go, unless AJ starts thinking about which one is easier to beat.

 

[Long]

Boxing's fukked, although it goes back yrs before this. Usyk IS a mandatory. But, Pulev is ALSO a mandatory. Promoters have a way of fixing messes like this with money, as in, pay off Pulev's people and include a next fight guarantee for Pulev to get the winner. That is probably how it will go, unless AJ starts thinking about which one is easier to beat.

I think Pulev is the mandatory that comes sooner and representative of the company that is more strict on deadlines.

But Usyk is the money fight and the better fight in my opinion.

Wilder is now running his mouth now about Joshua. I think he realizes his time is coming to an end.

 

[rawdeal]

How do you mean that about Wilder? ... like someone will beat him soon (I've always thought this was inevitable, but it ain't happened yet), or that his star power compared to AJ's will diminish, or what?

Seems to me whatever AJ's next fight is will get far less public attention than a Wilder-Fury match, assuming of course Fury doesn't get distracted by MMA or Wrassling.

 

[Long]

How do you mean that about Wilder? ... like someone will beat him soon (I've always thought this was inevitable, but it ain't happened yet), or that his star power compared to AJ's will diminish, or what?

Seems to me whatever AJ's next fight is will get far less public attention than a Wilder-Fury match, assuming of course Fury doesn't get distracted by MMA or Wrassling.

I will stop short of calling Wilder a paper champion. I think it is safe to say people pick and choose who they fight and how they build a legacy and rivalries.

Ortiz while underrated and get my respect for what he does in the ring is well past his prime and was a "safe" choice. I admittedly thought he could win, and he would have but he gassed. He is old, it sucks. He is a fighter.

Wilder/Fury I would describe without mincing words as two slap happy chicken shits feeling each other out for 12 rounds like a couple of gutless clowns on a sidewalk. Fury is the most overrated boxer in history.

No I don't think Joshua is going to grow in star power. While I think Joshua has the technical skills to beat Wilder, I think (and kind of agree at this point) that wilder thinks he can keep Joshua at distance and catch him with the whip later in the fight and knock him out. Joshua is the safe bet of at this point.

I think and admittedly I'm a fanboy Usyk has them all scared. They are seeing a technical fighter who moved like a hot knife through butter through a lower weight class. This has the Hollyfield feel to it.

I think Fury and Wilder know Wilder isn't afraid this time. He saw through Furys BS. Wilder is going to crush Fury. Ironic because Fury is a can crusher.

I think Wilder wants Joshua because it represents his last best chance at collecting all the belts and going down in history as one of the greats.

Usyk represents a very difficult challenge and none of them have exactly been climbing mountains lately when it comes to opponents.

 

[Brokeliving]

Usyk is really great at boxing, he would definitely win against wilder but for Joshua I can’t tell