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CJ275, here's the new thread. I agree, this will be fun and informational for lots of folks.I don't want to hijack a new member's intro thread ThatFitGuy, but if you want to copy and paste what was said earlier, and start a new thread, we can have a friendly debate about the topic.
It could be fun, people could learn some things.
But... If you're going to go with that only 10% of vegetarians aren't overweight because the other 90% lost their insulin sensitivity and are overweight as a result, good luck sir!
So no, I'm not saying that the other 90% lost their insulin sensitivity. I'm saying they never had it to any great degree to begin with, like the rest of the population and that continued eating like that will lead lots of people to type 2 diabetes. Frankly, I'd imagine that they were already on their way there. Anyone who was lean as an omnivore should also be relatively lean as a vegetarian/vegan. If they could process carbs well before, then they will probably process them well without meat in the diet, as well. They just look like death warmed over because of the lack of animal protein and fats in their diets. No muscle, because the body is scavenging every last bit of protein on them, bad teeth and hair, amenorrhea in women. All sorts of bad health effects from it.
But, how many of you know someone fat, who went vegetarian/vegan, then became really lean? I'm talking <10% for men, <15% for women? I sure don't know of any.
Hello and welcome.
So, I read your into. Have you ever considered eating low carbs? I think that might be the answer for you, as far as the excess fat on your body. You can either use it as a "diet" to get to your goal weight while you workout and get fit (you don't want to be leaner and look soft, do you?) or adopt it as a way of eating, as I have.
Not trying to get too much into the physiology, but from what I've learned over time, people get fat not necessarily because they eat too much, although many do. It's that too many of the calories that they eat turn to fat instead of being used as energy for the body. We have these insulin receptors on our muscles which allow glucose to enter the cell to be used as energy. Think of how bb's do a carb up before a show. The reason your muscles get bigger from a carb up is all the water AND GLUCOSE being shuttled into the muscle cell. This is one of the actions of insulin. Also, I've learned that for 90% (my guess) of the population, these receptors are resistant to this action of insulin, to one degree or another. Some more, some less. For you guys who use insulin for show prep, do you use metformin also to up regulate your receptors? I'm just guessing, but that's the mechanism that I'm talking about.
So, if you're insulin resistant and eating 40-50% of your diet as carbs, a good amount of the carb calories are getting stored as fat. That's all that your body can do with them. And, the longer this goes on, the more resistant these receptors get until they start shutting down...what doctors like to call pre-diabetes. Really, it's just mild diabetes, but they don't like to call it that because there's no "cure" for it. Because diabetes really isn't a disease, it's a natural state! We're just being told to eat the wrong form of energy for most people's bodies to process correctly, which gets more and more difficult the longer we do it. That's diabetes. Take out the carbs and start burning fat as energy instead of carbs (sugar) and all of that goes away. You're then using a second (I believe the primary) energy system in the body and taking insulin out of the equation almost completely. One thing to consider. There's one compound in the body that controls fat storage. That's insulin. Take it out of the equation and fat storage becomes very difficult.
After reading Dan Duchaine's book over 20 years ago and living it for most of that time, I can say that low carbs works for me. I've diet coached for periods of time and all of my former clients and lots of my current friends have had great success with low carb eating. I have a female friend in VT who's down over 100lbs since Jan '19 and still going. She wants to get back to the 135 lbs she was at before a severe back injury and time caused her to get up to 300lbs at 5'8"!! Do some research, but don't get confused by all the BS info out there!! If you decide to take the plunge, I'll help you get started. It's the easiest and fastest way that I know to lose fat naturally.
Regardless, welcome and I hope you reach your goals!!
So based upon this post, all vegans/vegetarians must be some fat fukks, since they get a huge percentage of their calories from carbohydrate.
Maybe there is something to that whole Cals in vs Cals out thing after all.
Hmmmmm....
I don't know how many calories most vegans/vegetarians eat, but the one's I know are still fat. I know you see these really skinny people on IG and stuff, but I think they're the exception. The 10% who have good insulin sensitivity. My younger brother is 53 and still has a body like Bruce Lee. He eats anything he wants to. But, they are not the norm in the population.
I guess based on your premise, the only way to get leaner is to have a calorie deficit based on calories taken in. I KNOW that's not the case, at least for me and people I've worked with. Calories in vs. calories out is too simplistic a view. Also, is "burning" them out the only way to get rid of calories? No, I don't think so. I would say "processing" them is more accurate. "Calories out" implies that all calories, regardless of type, are used the same way by the body, as some sort of energy. I don't believe that to be the case. Is a protein calorie used the same way as a carb calorie or a fat calorie? Not in my opinion. It's the same logic that says if you don't eat fat, you won't get fat. Creating a calorie deficit WILL allow a person to lose weight. But, how much? The body will step in at some point, slow down your metabolism and the weight loss stops. Also, is it all fat? We know that's not the case. Look at how much muscle a BB loses cutting for a show. The body will scavenge protein, as well as use fat, to make up the deficit. Also, it's not sustainable. Not eating is harder than almost anything else because it's a survival mechanism. I remember being on 1400 calories a day back in the mid '90's trying to cut and it sucked! I remember working out and not even being able to get a pump. And, once you up calories again, you'll eventually start putting on fat.
Body Opus was written for competitive bodybuilders. In the book, Dan Duchaine says that most elite competitive BB's have great genetics, including great insulin sensitivity. He wrote the book for everyone else who wants to get lean and get on stage. After reading his book and doing LOTS of research on human physiology, I'm pretty comfortable with my ideas on why most people are fat. Consider two points. We, as Americans, are eating less meat, less fat, more grains, more fruits and veggies, but we're fatter and sicker as a nation than in the 50's and 60's when we ate more meat, more fat and less carbs. Then, there's the French Paradox. Fatty dishes and sauces, but leaner and healthier. Point #2...there are essential fatty acids that if we don't get, we'll literally die. Same with essential amino acids. Have you ever heard of an essential carb, in any form? For you Evolutionists (not trying to insult you Creationists), think of a bear eating carbs all summer and getting fat (I'm not a vet, but my guess is that bears have insulin, too), then hibernating all winter and living off it's fat (essentially going into ketosis and burning fat as energy) and coming out skinny in the spring. It's essentially the same process, without the sleeping and starving.
Look, I'm not trying to convert anyone here. Everyone...you do you, I'll do me. But, for people who have been fat all their lives, I think I have some answers for you, if you're interested. I was never super fat, but 220, untrained at 5'10" sucked! Before I found low carbs, I was around 200 lbs at 15% fat. Not bad, but not what i wanted. I was almost 40 when I discovered low carbs. I'd been reading Dan Duchaine's column in Bill Phillip's mag, Muscle Media 2000, before he went mainstream. It was super hard core back then. Duchaine was THE guru to all the top guys in the sport. If you haven't read his book, I think anyone will learn a ton of new stuff about getting lean from it.
So, does anyone else here have long term experience eating low carbs? Please weigh in! Or if you don't and have questions...ask away!!
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