Oxford scientists may have a vaccine by September

BigSwolePump

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My opinion is that if a vaccine comes out the vulnerable should seriously consider taking it. I know the flu still kills thousands of people every year but it also saves more. And yes, its my understanding if you get the flu shot and still get the flu it will be a much milder case. Corona, isn't influenza. It's a respiratory disease, that if you are vulnerable it will fuk you up and kill you. Thats why it's my opinion that if someone has respiratory problems such as asthma, obesity, emphysema and other vulnerabilities they should get the vaccine. I'm not a supporter of the way things were shut down. We can still open society and protect the weak. Lol that's another conversation. One of my brothers is a high risk due to his extreme smoking. I will knock his out and vaccine him myself if he doesn't agree.

Covid and influenza are both mutated corona viruses.

I hope that if a vaccine is indeed made, that elderly and those with low immune systems do consider it. Everyone should consider it. Then after researching, decide what is best for them.

As far as to everyone else, the risks out weight the benefits IMO. A vaccine in its beginning stages is unproven and I will sit back and watch the lab rat sheep take it first. I am not injecting Covid in my body on purpose in hopes that is lowers my chances. I didn't get Covid or at least any symptoms when we were all going to die and I don't see myself getting it now.
 

BigSwolePump

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The record for creating a vaccine is 4 years. Vaccines are not easy or cheap to create. Fear causes errors and mistakes in and out of the lab setting. You cant rush a vaccine, not how science works. Is is possible the smart people at Oxford stumbled upon something, time will tell.


And this is why I won't be considering a vaccine for a 6 month old virus any time soon.
 

BrotherIron

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My opinion is that if a vaccine comes out the vulnerable should seriously consider taking it. I know the flu still kills thousands of people every year but it also saves more. And yes, its my understanding if you get the flu shot and still get the flu it will be a much milder case. Corona, isn't influenza. It's a respiratory disease, that if you are vulnerable it will fuk you up and kill you. Thats why it's my opinion that if someone has respiratory problems such as asthma, obesity, emphysema and other vulnerabilities they should get the vaccine. I'm not a supporter of the way things were shut down. We can still open society and protect the weak. Lol that's another conversation. One of my brothers is a high risk due to his extreme smoking. I will knock his out and vaccine him myself if he doesn't agree.

The flu kills 500K around the world EVERY year. It kills over 20K here in the US alone... and that's every year. In 2017, when the flu was bad it killed 60K in the US alone.

Influenza is a respiratory virus which also attacks the lungs too. Just in a different manner.
 

Seeker

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The flu kills 500K around the world EVERY year. It kills over 20K here in the US alone... and that's every year. In 2017, when the flu was bad it killed 60K in the US alone.

Influenza is a respiratory virus which also attacks the lungs too. Just in a different manner.

Yes I meant to say flu. Sorry for my mistake. I've never taken a flu shot. I consider myself pretty healthy but as I get older I'll have to consider it more seriously
 

Joliver

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I wish we could at least pretend people that are cynical and suspicious of UNLIMITED government power (like the US gov...for example) are respected for their critical eye as opposed to being labeled conspiracy theorists and nutcases.

A government caused all of this. Some asshole got this corona virus in Saudi Arabia. The Canadian NHS wanted to study it. The Chinese government stole it. Now we have to surrender things for it.

Government made the problem...and all the sudden, I'm the jackass for not accepting their convenient record breaking solution? Lol

Maybe the vaccine is safe. Maybe it isn't. The government isn't safe for sure. Search "operation Northwoods."
 

NbleSavage

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Not posting in here to tell people what they should or should not do, but to add some important information to be considered.

There is no doubt vaccinations have allowed us to control diseases that once threatened millions of lives, just look at history...
Measles, polio, tetanus, whooping cough, and others. Vaccinations don't just protect individuals, they protect society.
this occurs thru herd immunity. Widespread vaccinations make it less likely that a susceptible person will come into contact with someone who has a particular disease. Just compare the U.S. to other poorer world countries in terms of disease ? I also, have never had the flu shot, but I have had the tetanus shot and other vaccinations. If you grew up and went to School here in the U.S? You had vaccinations as a child.

My sentiments exactly.

Certain things are individual choice - having an abortion doesn't tangentially effect a host of others.

Certain things have repercussions beyond the end of yer nose - not being vaccinated, refusing to vaccinate yer kids can both expose them and in turn they can expose others.

Not following basic protocols to minimize the likelihood of catching and spreading a disease because "Muh' Freedom" is both selfish and reckless.

I'm hopeful but not optimistic that this pandemic will help some to think beyond their front door.
 

NbleSavage

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I wish we could at least pretend people that are cynical and suspicious of UNLIMITED government power (like the US gov...for example) are respected for their critical eye as opposed to being labeled conspiracy theorists and nutcases.

A government caused all of this. Some asshole got this corona virus in Saudi Arabia. The Canadian NHS wanted to study it. The Chinese government stole it. Now we have to surrender things for it.

Government made the problem...and all the sudden, I'm the jackass for not accepting their convenient record breaking solution? Lol

Maybe the vaccine is safe. Maybe it isn't. The government isn't safe for sure. Search "operation Northwoods."

No doubt there have been covert ops and shady dealings by the government - these are facts. Northwoods, Tuskegee, Mockingbird, MK-Ultra, all facts.

The problem is in the "Cry Wolf" behavior that some have, that any initiative taken by the government now surely must be a conspiracy. I give you "Gay Frogs" as Exhibit A.

Bill Gates is one of the greatest philanthropists of our time and his legacy is being soiled by people who would suggest he's a part of some unsubstantiated, unproven conspiracy theory.

Bring facts - or at least bring some semblance of evidence beyond conjecture and circumstantial. Adopting a standard before framing anything & everything as "conspiracy" would give more credibility to those who can legitimately think critically and pose legitimate questions to their government.
 

Joliver

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My sentiments exactly.

Certain things are individual choice - having an abortion doesn't tangentially effect a host of others.

Certain things have repercussions beyond the end of yer nose - not being vaccinated, refusing to vaccinate yer kids can both expose them and in turn they can expose others.

Not following basic protocols to minimize the likelihood of catching and spreading a disease because "Muh' Freedom" is both selfish and reckless.

I'm hopeful but not optimistic that this pandemic will help some to think beyond their front door.

I don't think anyone is talking about vaccines in general. We're talking about this particular vaccine.

And yes, we are talking about freedom as well. Because in the blink of an eye you can surrender something you can't get back. The government operates on precedent in that regard. 9 bullies get to inject the 10th because of fear....not exactly a western European value. Definitely not an American value.

And if you want to rely on the "medical scientists" that have your best interest in mind, I'd gladly ask if we're talking about the same doctors that launched the opioid epidemic that kills 80k people a year, or maybe the one that allows children to take amphetamine salts in the USA because they won't pay attention? That last one was a bridge too far for even Canadians who pulled Adderall after heart issues and dependency were "discovered." If you've ever seen pediatric withdrawal, thank the FDA. A million examples that you've been trained to believe are isolated events are evidence that the machine doesn't give a damn about you. They'll give you syphilis to watch it's fiendish progression. Only you have your best interest at heart. You've been programmed to make fun of the dissenters and the cynics...when you said "muh freedom"... that's excellent example of this. It ties being an imbecile to being wary of something that everyone should be suspicious of. You believe making a quick decision in this convoluted pack of misinformation makes you the intellectual superior. I'm thunderstruck by this.

You give the system too much credit while discrediting the individual who only wants the best for themselves. Systems can have many motives, but the overwhelming motive for the individual is usually in their own best interest. Perhaps blame the liar for being untrustworthy, but not the individual who only wants to defend those god given rights that seem to be first on the chopping block.

This is the sadness of it all: that men have been trained to think of the government that GOVERNS over them as good...and individuals as bad just because the box in the corner says so. Individuals are only as good as the information presented. And I'd say in this situation, too little information has been disseminated but the fear is widespread. A decision in haste is rarely fully thought out.
 

NbleSavage

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I don't think anyone is talking about vaccines in general. We're talking about this particular vaccine.

And yes, we are talking about freedom as well. Because in the blink of an eye you can surrender something you can't get back. The government operates on precedent in that regard. 9 bullies get to inject the 10th because of fear....not exactly a western European value. Definitely not an American value.

And if you want to rely on the "medical scientists" that have your best interest in mind, I'd gladly ask if we're talking about the same doctors that launched the opioid epidemic that kills 80k people a year, or maybe the one that allows children to take amphetamine salts in the USA because they won't pay attention? That last one was a bridge too far for even Canadians who pulled Adderall after heart issues and dependency were "discovered." If you've ever seen pediatric withdrawal, thank the FDA. A million examples that you've been trained to believe are isolated events are evidence that the machine doesn't give a damn about you. They'll give you syphilis to watch it's fiendish progression. Only you have your best interest at heart. You've been programmed to make fun of the dissenters and the cynics...when you said "muh freedom"... that's excellent example of this. It ties being an imbecile to being wary of something that everyone should be suspicious of. You believe making a quick decision in this convoluted pack of misinformation makes you the intellectual superior. I'm thunderstruck by this.

You give the system too much credit while discrediting the individual who only wants the best for themselves. Systems can have many motives, but the overwhelming motive for the individual is usually in their own best interest. Perhaps blame the liar for being untrustworthy, but not the individual who only wants to defend those god given rights that seem to be first on the chopping block.

This is the sadness of it all: that men have been trained to think of the government that GOVERNS over them as good...and individuals as bad just because the box in the corner says so. Individuals are only as good as the information presented. And I'd say in this situation, too little information has been disseminated but the fear is widespread. A decision in haste is rarely fully thought out.

Joli, ye made my point entirely: "the overwhelming motive for the individual is usually in their own best interest".

Aye, there's the rub.

If we only act in our own self-interest, we get toilet paper hoarding. We get anti-vaxxers. Climate change deniers. If we refuse to consider the collective, we are a nation divided. Crises are wonderful at revealing character.

If yer point is "I can only trust myself" then I get ye to some extent. And I'll agree that any individual is only as correct as the quality of the information presented, point taken. And fwiw, I'm no more trusting of "the system" then you - I just choose to give a positive bias until I'm confronted with evidence to the contrary. Pollyanna? Maybe, but its a better place to be than shooting at cell tower workers.

My question in response to you is this then: how do you function in a society in which everyone is untrustworthy in yer estimation? Cabin in the woods?

My point: you have never actually had complete and total freedom. You traded that fer a standard of living that allows ye to live largely free from tyranny, to purchase food at a grocery instead of hunting and killing what ye eat, to drive on paved highways instead of dirt roads, to espouse conspiracy theories without being "disappeared" - try having this conversation in North Korea. And no, I'm not the person to wrap themselves up in the flag - only to point out that this idea of "muh' freedom" has simply never existed in the way many seem to idealize it. It's become synonymous with entitlement. Try not paying yer taxes fer a year and see how much "freedom" ye have.
 

Jin

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A government caused all of this. Some asshole got this corona virus in Saudi Arabia. The Canadian NHS wanted to study it. The Chinese government stole it. Now we have to surrender things for it.

Government made the problem...and all the sudden, I'm the jackass for not accepting their convenient record breaking solution? Lol

"

Is this what happened?

Nobody is going to have to make a hasty decision about getting vaccinated. This is probably years away. Even if they get something out in September it will be for the most vulnerable first.
 

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Influenza vaccine is one of the least effective humanity has ever made. It changes yearly and on the best year it has about a 60% effectiveness and in its worst year: 0% effectiveness. It’s literally a best guess formula every year.

There are many safe and effective vaccines. People are stating they haven’t been vaccinated for this and that, but as children they’ve all been vaccinated against a slew of previously deadly diseases.

Besides antibiotics, vaccines are maybe the most life saving medical discoveries in history.

Fun fact: milkmaids in the UK in the 1800’s were seemingly immune to smallpox. One smart guy theorized exposure to some disease in the cows was making them immune. Pus from cowpox (a far less virulent disease, but similar in structure) was spread into a little cut on healthy patients. And boom, that was the first vaccination. Against smallpox. 100x the monster that Covid is.

Hello everyone, been a while.

I will chime in here. Just like the flu virus (or to speak accurately, the many many strains of flu, corona viruses, and other flu-like viruses that cause “the flu” each season) is like Jin said, the reason the flu vaccine doesn’t seem to work very well (mind you it is still pushed HARD by the powers at be despite its ineffectiveness.... Gee, wonder why they would do that?). But for this same exact reason, the alleged COVID19 vaccine will not work either. In patients who have already contracted COVID19, they have found over 30 mutations in the virus. So over 30 slightly different “COVID19” makeups, not just one set of DNA sequencing to deal with...

No doubt there will be a COVID19 vaccine created. Probably more than one. And no doubt they will push it through the legal red tape because people are begging for their “freedom” and “health” to return. No doubt they will try (and perhaps succeed) at making it mandatory. But I assure you, it won’t work. And I assure you it is not in our best interest to surrender our civil liberties to a group of people that have NEVER had our best interest as their own. I will take my chances.

btw, my kids have not been vaccinated and they are extremely healthy. You can call me an idiot or an ignorant fool, but I bet you all believe I did my homework extensively before we made our decision.
 
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Jin

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Welcome back Dan.

Whats the reason that the powers that be push for flu vaccines each year?
 

BigSwolePump

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Welcome back Dan.

Whats the reason that the powers that be push for flu vaccines each year?

The kickbacks given to politicians from big pharma. Even Dems know this.
 

Joliver

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Joli, ye made my point entirely: "the overwhelming motive for the individual is usually in their own best interest".

Aye, there's the rub.

If we only act in our own self-interest, we get toilet paper hoarding. We get anti-vaxxers. Climate change deniers. If we refuse to consider the collective, we are a nation divided. Crises are wonderful at revealing character.

If yer point is "I can only trust myself" then I get ye to some extent. And I'll agree that any individual is only as correct as the quality of the information presented, point taken. And fwiw, I'm no more trusting of "the system" then you - I just choose to give a positive bias until I'm confronted with evidence to the contrary. Pollyanna? Maybe, but its a better place to be than shooting at cell tower workers.

My question in response to you is this then: how do you function in a society in which everyone is untrustworthy in yer estimation? Cabin in the woods?

My point: you have never actually had complete and total freedom. You traded that fer a standard of living that allows ye to live largely free from tyranny, to purchase food at a grocery instead of hunting and killing what ye eat, to drive on paved highways instead of dirt roads, to espouse conspiracy theories without being "disappeared" - try having this conversation in North Korea. And no, I'm not the person to wrap themselves up in the flag - only to point out that this idea of "muh' freedom" has simply never existed in the way many seem to idealize it. It's become synonymous with entitlement. Try not paying yer taxes fer a year and see how much "freedom" ye have.

I know I don't have it. But damned if I'm going to allow them to go from taxing me...which is constitutional, to deciding I'm going to inject some hasty solution to a problem they created. The burden of action isn't on the individual. That's where you believe it lies. No one individual unleashed this virus. The FBI knew Chinese scientists were shuttling diseases back and forth in the United States. I posted the AP article a few weeks ago. They didn't want to protect me in 2017...but now all the sudden a mandatory vaccination seems to be the stopgap in their malfeasance. Again...they **** up...and I pay.

People are sheep. That's why you get herd hoarding. Panic and nothing more. Media induced panic.

I've never given up my "rugged individualism." I live on a bit of land. Solar panels. Electric car. Well for water. Have a garden. I've killed 2 turkeys in two weeks, if you seen me in the chat yacking about it. I do those things not because I have to, I'm actually a professional in real life. I do them because when it comes right down to it, I'm responsible for me. People forgot that and traded life skills for malls and now they need a government to protect them. Look what that earned them.

Speaking of climate. Overpopulation is the leading contributor to this. So with that in mind, would bill gates, who has damn near doubled the population of the most polluting countries on Earth still be considered a good guy? Make a choice. Too many people or the earth? They are mutually exclusive. The only defense you have against me here is calling me a bigot for the undertones of my suggestion.

How to live in society with everyone being untrustworthy? an individual posseses all the power of the individual. A government wields the power of the misinformed collective. Only one is an existential threat. If you've ever owned a business, you know a bad customer can't sink you. The government can end your dream with a letter from an above the national average in pay, know nothing, bureaucrat.
 

Joliver

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Is this what happened?

Nobody is going to have to make a hasty decision about getting vaccinated. This is probably years away. Even if they get something out in September it will be for the most vulnerable first.

This is what happened. I posted the article a few weeks ago in the china thread. It's main stream media verifiable that Chinese foreign national virologists were deported from Canada a year ago in March for sending coronavirus to Wuhan. The Canadian response to loss of the virus was limp-dicked at best. They strong arm people...but not other wealthy government's. Lol
 

Jin

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The kickbacks given to politicians from big pharma. Even Dems know this.

Oh, sorry.

I’m unaware of which way I should
be leaning politically, therefore I’m also unsure of what I should know for certain and what I’m still allowed to be unsure of.

I’d like to have the certainty that people with stronger polical opinions have. Just not sure I’m ready to commit to any sort of ideology.

I’m open to the idea you prospose. I’m also open to the theory that flu vaccines are extremely cheap and “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”.
 

Jin

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This is what happened. I posted the article a few weeks ago in the china thread. It's main stream media verifiable that Chinese foreign national virologists were deported from Canada a year ago in March for sending coronavirus to Wuhan. The Canadian response to loss of the virus was limp-dicked at best. They strong arm people...but not other wealthy government's. Lol

I’m open to the possibility of government incompetence or even malice, coverups etc.

There are thousands of Coronaviruses in the animal kingdom and many are studied daily.

So, maybe. Maybe not. IMO.
 

Jin

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Money.

10char

How do you account for vaccinations in the 3rd world which yield zero profit to anyone but have been credited for saving 100’s of thousands of lives? Specifically Africa.

Do you understand just how unprofitable The vaccine market is for drug manufacturers?

they are focused on drugs you need daily. Not yearly or once.

The top 5 vaccine manufactures worldwide had combined sales of $23.4B. This is 2-3% of the trillion dollar drug market.

Lipitor, Metformin, Prozac, Viagra. These are the money makers. Not vaccines.
 

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