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  1. #1
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    A Primer for those considering HRT

    This is not a specific protocol recommendation but more a 'HRT Theory' that I developed over the 3 years I was on HRT and 25 years of AAS study.

    1) Use the least amount of pharmaceutics you can to elicit the most significant effect. Why? Because you are going to be taking these drugs for the rest of your life and you want to limit the overall potential for "long-term" side effects.By using less drugs, you will have a better chance of avoiding long term usage effects.

    2) Most guys start with too much test! The goal of HRT should be to push you to a comfortable high level of test - approximating what your body would otherwise manufacture if you were 100% HPTA functional. I've seen protocol with guys starting at 300+ mgs of test a week. In my years of HRT and AAS usage and study, that is just way too much. In fact, it is a light cycle for 95% of the guys out there. If you are testing consistently above 1500 ng/dl, you are using too much test.

    When you start with too much test, you wind up having to use more support drugs to control the issues associated with too much test - read Adex. So, start your protocol with 100 mg split up over 2 injections every 84 hours (50 per shot) and get tested every 4 weeks so you can adjust upward. Adjusting 1 drug upward is a lot easier than trying to fine tune multiple drugs.

    3) Inject more frequently with smaller amounts. The long ester test that is used by most is positioned IM and is released from the depot over time. HOWEVER, this release IS NOT LINEAR. It occurs in an elongated sinusoid pattern. I've done the computed area of the integral for myself using 5 days worth of consecutive blood draws and as I mention, 84 hours an injection schedule works really well for test cyp in terms of blood level stability with minimal highs and lows. More frequent injections really don't improve the distribution of highs and lows very significantly. What I found by doing this was that for me personally, if I had around 30 mgs of active drug in my blood daily, I did not aromatize to any marked extent and I didn't need to us an AI at all during my protocol. Above 30 mgs of active drug a day in the systems and I kick into significant aromatization and had to use an AI. Now, with 30 mgs of active test in my system, I was able to maintain a total test level between 1100 - 1500 ng/dl. So there is another reason to work to keep you test levels under 1500, it limits your need for other drugs, my Crit number never budged above 48.8% and my BP never moved out of the 120/60 range. Again, see point 2 above.

    4) Depending on your goals, HCG is not a requirement for HRT. In men, HCG is a messy messy drug. I could write a dissertation on this from what I've learned over 25 years with and personally tested. Simply, if you are not concerned about having kids in the future, you may want to consider foregoing HCG although. Maintaining a sperm count is all it is really good for.

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  3. #2
    Elite DF's Avatar
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Very nice information Cashout. I plan on giving this a go shortly.

  4. #3
    Traptheend AndroSport's Avatar
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Good info broseph!

  5. #4
    Senior Member curls's Avatar
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Great post I will give this a try. Now all we need to do is have a Cashout post his diet.

  6. #5
    Elite LeanHerm's Avatar
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Great post cash.

  7. #6
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Originally Posted by curls View Post
    Great post I will give this a try. Now all we need to do is have a Cashout post his diet.
    Gladly...I'll put it up in this section as a new thread and the mods are welcome to relocate it to the 'Diet' forum if they deem it a better fit there.

  8. #7
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Perfect right here where it is at IMO. Also good enough for sticky status! TY Cashout!

  9. #8
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Great post cash. Thanks. You should make a post on the whole hcg thing. It wod be interesting.
    US Goverment Policy: If It Ain't Broken, Fix It Till It Is.

  10. #9
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Originally Posted by Lulu66 View Post
    Great post cash. Thanks. You should make a post on the whole hcg thing. It wod be interesting.
    X2 Cash will love to have your thoughs on this and experience about HCG, will be very helpfull for everyone.

  11. #10
    Senior Member sfstud33's Avatar
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Very good info. I was on TRT for two years with a HMO and my doc would give me 400mg in one shot each month. Needless to say id feel awesome first week!! He'd only order bloodwork twice a year and they insisted on doing the shots. If they would have given me a script i'd have divided the dose up for a more consistent administration. I had never thought of anything more frequently than weekly -this is def good info.

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  13. #11
    Elite Bullseye Forever's Avatar
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    as always brother excellent post and knowledge

  14. #12
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Originally Posted by Cashout View Post
    This is not a specific protocol recommendation but more a 'HRT Theory' that I developed over the 3 years I was on HRT and 25 years of AAS study.

    1) Use the least amount of pharmaceutics you can to elicit the most significant effect. Why? Because you are going to be taking these drugs for the rest of your life and you want to limit the overall potential for "long-term" side effects.By using less drugs, you will have a better chance of avoiding long term usage effects.

    2) Most guys start with too much test! The goal of HRT should be to push you to a comfortable high level of test - approximating what your body would otherwise manufacture if you were 100% HPTA functional. I've seen protocol with guys starting at 300+ mgs of test a week. In my years of HRT and AAS usage and study, that is just way too much. In fact, it is a light cycle for 95% of the guys out there. If you are testing consistently above 1500 ng/dl, you are using too much test.

    When you start with too much test, you wind up having to use more support drugs to control the issues associated with too much test - read Adex. So, start your protocol with 100 mg split up over 2 injections every 84 hours (50 per shot) and get tested every 4 weeks so you can adjust upward. Adjusting 1 drug upward is a lot easier than trying to fine tune multiple drugs.

    3) Inject more frequently with smaller amounts. The long ester test that is used by most is positioned IM and is released from the depot over time. HOWEVER, this release IS NOT LINEAR. It occurs in an elongated sinusoid pattern. I've done the computed area of the integral for myself using 5 days worth of consecutive blood draws and as I mention, 84 hours an injection schedule works really well for test cyp in terms of blood level stability with minimal highs and lows. More frequent injections really don't improve the distribution of highs and lows very significantly. What I found by doing this was that for me personally, if I had around 30 mgs of active drug in my blood daily, I did not aromatize to any marked extent and I didn't need to us an AI at all during my protocol. Above 30 mgs of active drug a day in the systems and I kick into significant aromatization and had to use an AI. Now, with 30 mgs of active test in my system, I was able to maintain a total test level between 1100 - 1500 ng/dl. So there is another reason to work to keep you test levels under 1500, it limits your need for other drugs, my Crit number never budged above 48.8% and my BP never moved out of the 120/60 range. Again, see point 2 above.

    4) Depending on your goals, HCG is not a requirement for HRT. In men, HCG is a messy messy drug. I could write a dissertation on this from what I've learned over 25 years with and personally tested. Simply, if you are not concerned about having kids in the future, you may want to consider foregoing HCG although. Maintaining a sperm count is all it is really good for.
    I wish I could stick a flash drive in Cash's ear and download everything he knows.

  15. #13
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Originally Posted by Pikiki View Post
    X2 Cash will love to have your thoughs on this and experience about HCG, will be very helpfull for everyone.
    Ditto on HCG info

  16. #14
    Senior Member Curiosity's Avatar
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Originally Posted by Lulu66 View Post
    Great post cash. Thanks. You should make a post on the whole hcg thing. It wod be interesting.
    Yes Cash, please post your thoughts on proper HCG usage, both for TRT and for cycling! I'd really appreciate it!

  17. #15
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Sorry I haven't done this yet - at my beach house again for a month or so and that means I'm not online much...

  18. #16
    Senior Member Illtemper's Avatar
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Cash I missed reading your very knowledgeable posts on the ology..... Im glad i found everyone again!

  19. #17
    Senior Member BigFella's Avatar
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    Originally Posted by Cashout View Post
    Sorry I haven't done this yet - at my beach house again for a month or so and that means I'm not online much...
    Feel so sorry for you.

  20. #18
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    its a late post, but i just read this thread. very nice information Cashout, thank you

    i may be going to Australia or Canada for grad school. So i want to be able to use AAS legally( at least test). I started my first cycle at 25 and after 4 years of blasting and crusing, im sure i will need TRT/HRT now @ 29

    what would be the best way to go about getting it?

  21. #19
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    I started with too much test and felt like shit.

    Regarding HCG, I am already taking a very low dose of Adex and I bet if I bailed on the HCG I could survive without taking any AI's at all.

    Is there any way to know for a given protocol that inlcudes Test and HCG how much the HCG contributes to your test level? In other words, if you quit taking HCG how much would test need to be increased to offset what HCG does if any?

  22. #20
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    Re: A Primer for those considering HRT

    The HCG actually contributes nothing to the natural production when using exogenous test.

    I've proven that to myself over and over with blood work.

    What it does help with is spermogensis.

    Originally Posted by TR90125 View Post
    I started with too much test and felt like shit.

    Regarding HCG, I am already taking a very low dose of Adex and I bet if I bailed on the HCG I could survive without taking any AI's at all.

    Is there any way to know for a given protocol that inlcudes Test and HCG how much the HCG contributes to your test level? In other words, if you quit taking HCG how much would test need to be increased to offset what HCG does if any?

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