My pro's and cons of high rep/ high intensity

[snake]

Prior to a shoulder surgery, I spent about 4 months of leg training with Giant sets and picked up with the same routine for the last 4 months. Leg extensions to squats to leg presses to leg curls. 4 good working sets that left me hurting. Reps were 15 except on squats, they were 12.

When I first started this routine, my squat weight was respectable for 8 reps. I quickly found out that this new routine was going to take some time because I felt it was more taxing conditioning wise and less fatigue to the muscles. This took a good month or so to change and when it did, I was able to handle more weight without hacking up a lung.

I'm not at the point where I am going to add an inch on my thighs, those types of gains are over. But what I did find is that the quality of my legs increased while maintaining the same body weight. There were some cardio advantages to this workout also, not like you're going to lose weight from it but it does work your heart.

Now for the not so good. Like any part of training, you plateau and there comes a time for change. With this workout, you have to swallow some pride with your gym weight; a lot of pride actually. That's easy for me since I have no one in the gym I have to impress. Last week I made the switch back to squats for 5 sets. I know better then to start out hard and fast so I kept it within reason. I could not get over how heavy the weight felt. I finished up for reps of 8 that would have been a heavy warm up for me a little over a year ago. Safe to say, my training weight for 8 reps has dropped about 100 lbs.

This routine is great for quality muscle gain if you give it several months to work. Still, once you hear the call back to a more standard heavier squats, expect a kick in the teeth.

 

[white ape]

Great information snake. I’ve read a lot about legs needing higher reps to grow. When I was getting down before covid I would go high weight with low reps on my squats and anything else legs was 12-15 reps. Figured I could do a bit of size and strength. It seemed to work well.

 

[white ape]

Question for you. Do you think it’s easier to hold onto your mass during a period away from the gym (say two months) if that muscle were built with high reps or low reps?

like is one more dense and solid than the other so it would retain better?

 

[BRICKS]

Question for you. Do you think it’s easier to hold onto your mass during a period away from the gym (say two months) if that muscle were built with high reps or low reps?

like is one more dense and solid than the other so it would retain better?

Muscle is muscle bro. Muscle from one training method doesn't go away any faster than from another. Basic physiology.

 

[Sicwun88]

I can relate to this!
I've been focusing on higher rep workouts!
Yesterday was leg day 5 sets of 135lbs for 20reps then 5sets of 225lbs for 12 reps! Then stiff leg deadlift with same weight & reps,
Since I don't have access to leg extensions or leg curls!
My legs are smoked!!!!!;

 

[white ape]

Muscle is muscle bro. Muscle from one training method doesn't go away any faster than from another. Basic physiology.

thanks. I was wondering. I’ve heard different opinions on the matter. Don’t think any of it was backed up with real data

 

[snake]

Question for you. Do you think it’s easier to hold onto your mass during a period away from the gym (say two months) if that muscle were built with high reps or low reps?

like is one more dense and solid than the other so it would retain better?

Muscle is muscle bro. Muscle from one training method doesn't go away any faster than from another. Basic physiology.

I'm with Bricks on this but would like to dive deeper into it.

"Holding your mass" is a generic term but I think I know what you mean. Injury layoffs aside, Being able to keep the muscle size would depend on several individual things; years of training helps in my opinion. It just seems that your body get use to keeping some of that muscle it's gotten use to... just in case.

The biggest factor is where you were when you let off the gas. The higher you climb, the greater the fall. Therefore, a veteran who at the top of his game will lose more than the same veteran at less than his best. It seems that the two answers conflict but they don't. The first compares one to another, the second compares one to itself.

Activity level during the time away from the gym plays into the equation. Again, if it's not injury related, the odds of a some pencil pusher who goes home and watches TV all night is going to differ from someone like me who is active outside the gym.

At the science level, Bricks is dead on but there are so many variables, it's almost hard to quantify the amount of muscle loss one would have with either method. Ultimately, it shouldn't really matter unless you are not setting foot in a gym again.

 

[white ape]

Thanks for the answer. Seems logical. I just swear that I read something that said muscles built with high reps would go away faster. Seemed like BS then, but I figured I would ask anyway. Thanks again

 

[Solomc]

I quit lifting for big numbers years ago. Now i am lifting whatever weight gives me the best mind-muscle connection. Since that, I have been in the best shape and most ripped ever.

Solo

 

[graybass]

I competed in power for 22 years. Of course after injuring every joint in my body I gave it up, train more like a body builder now. That said I still go as heavy as I can down to 6 reps. The weights are much lighter than they used to be but, I believe I have maintained much more size this way. I never go over 10-12 reps. I have always felt giant sets and high reps were just glorified cardio. Rather lift a few more pounds. It's hard to gain muscle at any age so, even though I have to go lighter I always train like I'm trying to get bigger. Helps to maintain mass and strength.
Just my .02

 

[dk8594]

Similar experience as yours, Snake, but perhaps for different reasons.

Up until about a year a and a half ago having a leg workout without heavy squats was heretical. I never went less than 6 reps, but never went more than 12 either. I'd put pins in the squat rack and go to failure. My personal best was 405 for 9.

About a year and a half ago I was having some SI joint issues so I switched to leg press. Leg Press turned into leg press super setted with leg extension, which in turn became leg press, immediately followed by a drop set @ 60%, immediately followed by leg extensions. In the course of doing that, and being forced away from squats for awhile, I realized I never truly felt squats in my thighs (I felt them primarily in my abductors) and have seen tremendous improvement to my thighs since eliminating them from my leg workouts. They were physically taxing, but not to the areas of focus. The giant sets are physically taxing too, but like you said, not in the same way.... my legs are dead, not my whole body.

I have no doubt that 405 on a squat bar would break me now, but strength isn't my objective.

I know this isn't you, but I see guys at the gym who are so fixated on the weight that they forget about the contraction. We all have "ego" lifts where the weight means more to us than just a number, and I feel like giant sets helps those whose objective isn't poundage remember that.

 

[BRICKS]

Work the muscle, not the weight.

 

[dk8594]

Work the muscle, not the weight.

Darn it, Bricks! You just summed up my whole response in 6 words!

 

[snake]

, I realized I never truly felt squats in my thighs (I felt them primarily in my abductors) and have seen tremendous improvement to my thighs since eliminating them from my leg workouts. They were physically taxing, but not to the areas of focus. The giant sets are physically taxing too, but like you said, not in the same way.... my legs are dead, not my whole body.

For some reason, the Giant sets gave me more fatigue but the heavy squats made me more sore. It was hard for an ol' dog to think he was getting something out of it without being a cripple for the next 2 days, but it works.

Thanks for your input dk

 

[Trump]

When I work away due to limited weights I do high rep for my 4 weeks away then high weight low rep for my 4 weeks home. For the 1st 2 weeks of both changes I hurt bad then it dies down the second 2 weeks. I then switch and all over again, you got to shock de muscle

 

[Texan69]

Snake, what do you think about the training method you mentioned being safer for your body... avoiding injuries. Seems like with this it takes less weight to tax your muscle so could be safer?

I’ve battling a lot of nagging injuries nothing serious just some aches and pains so I have been training to give my joints a rest so I’ve been doing a lot of similar stuff you mentioned in hopes of still fatiguing my muscle with less weight to give my joints a bit of a rest from the heavy load. Am I on the right train of thought here, in your opinion. The way I’ve been thinking lately is if I can get a great workout with less weight and still get some growth and am able to stay healthier then I take it was a win. Learning to set my ego aside and stop worrying about throwing up big weight

 

[ATLRigger]

Work the muscle, not the weight.

I work the weight so long as i can control it in good form.
Thanks for sharing, Snake. Always good to hear more stories reinforcing my belief in low rep, high weight.

 

[snake]

Snake, what do you think about the training method you mentioned being safer for your body... avoiding injuries. Seems like with this it takes less weight to tax your muscle so could be safer?

I can say I have been bit by both heavy and not so heavy weight but there's a reason for the heavy injuries being more often.

Follow me and I'll use some general numbers. Some dude can rep 405 for 5 as his PR. He backs off the heavy stuff and starts to hit the volume/reps low weight. Time passes and he's injury free. He switches back to the big weights. He may spend a long time training before he gets back to that 405x5; could be months. Then he hits his PR again and at that level, 425 is now his new goal. That could be a few more month since he's at the top of his game.

One day this guy feels good, everything is clicking, weight is feeling good on his back so today's the day. He takes out 425 and on the 4th one, strains something. Was that a product of the heavy weight? Maybe but in my opinion, it is a combination of factors. The heavy weight, the time it took to get another 20lbs over a good PR, coupled with the time to go from the light weight to the 425.

I also feel the stakes go up with years of training and the higher poundage. Tweak a quad at your best with 315 for a triple is not the same as a 495 tweak with the same reps.

This covers the catastrophic injury but in the long run, lighter weights are best for long term joint health. The biggest factor for me with regard to a serous muscle tear is age. At 25, you say, "I got one more in me" at 50, you learn to say, "I probably had one more in me". Youth trumps everything, even gear.

 

[BrotherIron]

With your change in training, you changed your focus. You were focusing on sarcoplasmic hypertrophy instead of myofibrillar hypertrophy. It would be advantageous to put both in your training perhaps since a larger muscle is able to handle a heavier load easier.