De criminalizing Controlled substances

[DOOM]

It has already been implemented in another country and it's turned that country around in a decade.

What country are you referring too and what is there population?

 

[BrotherIron]

What country are you referring too and what is there population?

Portugal is the country I'm referring to. Check out the stats.. you'll be shocked who how things didn't wind up like people thought. The numbers dropped significantly and the government were more accepting of individuals which made it easier for addicts to hold onto their recovery instead of becoming part of a system which demonizing them and turns them into a terrible statistic.

 

[Blusoul24]

The irony is that, the one drug which IS legal, is the one that causes the most damage. I’m talking about alcohol, which kills more people than any other drug save for maybe tobacco. Alcohol is a chemical we ingest today change how we feel; it’s a drug, albeit a legal one.

I don’t drink or do any other drugs (except caffeine, but nobody ever stole your wallet to get a cup of joe). That said, I agree with de-criminalizing. I feel if you aren’t hurting anyone else’s then it should be your choice what you do to your body.

 

[DOOM]

Portugal is the country I'm referring to. Check out the stats.. you'll be shocked who how things didn't wind up like people thought. The numbers dropped significantly and the government were more accepting of individuals which made it easier for addicts to hold onto their recovery instead of becoming part of a system which demonizing them and turns them into a terrible statistic.

That is what I figured man and that is why I asked what the population was. Yeah Portugal has made great strides in lowering there death rate with relation to HIV and Opioid’s

Now the real question? Can the same be done here? The population of Portugal is less then Los Angeles.

So I think we would definitely have our work cut out for us, especially with our terrible health care and human resources, privatized prisons and bi partisan political system? Not to mention the millions of homeless street addicts with severe mental health issues.

Again it is so complicated! It would be a real challenge for the USA to follow in Portugal’s footsteps being a country of over 350 million people.

 

[DieYoungStrong]

Does anyone realize most drugs were perfectly legal in the US in the late 1800's/early 1900's before they were criminalized and then prohibition came, and boom - age of the gangsters.

 

[El Gringo]

The only drugs I’d care to legalize are anabolic steroids. All the other junkies can **** off

 

[DOOM]

Derp! :32 (6):

 

[So1970]

Not only making dealers rich, we are supporting them when they have to go to the hospital for being shot by each other

 

[Boytoy]

Not only making dealers rich, we are supporting them when they have to go to the hospital for being shot by each other

And prison. Can get a free education while locked up. Bring back the chain gang and make them work while there instead of lay around and play on the computer then they might not want to go back as often.

Have old acquaintances that call it vacation. Sit out here and sell drugs and put money up so when he gets caught they have money for honey buns. Then they just sit in there till times up and repeat. Put them to work and they would stay out I believe or at least they would get a taste of what you should be doing anyhow. Just my opinion

 

[BrotherIron]

That is what I figured man and that is why I asked what the population was. Yeah Portugal has made great strides in lowering there death rate with relation to HIV and Opioid’s

Now the real question? Can the same be done here? The population of Portugal is less then Los Angeles.

So I think we would definitely have our work cut out for us, especially with our terrible health care and human resources, privatized prisons and bi partisan political system? Not to mention the millions of homeless street addicts with severe mental health issues.

Again it is so complicated! It would be a real challenge for the USA to follow in Portugal’s footsteps being a country of over 350 million people.

First thing we need to do here is change how we treat recovering addicts. They're PEOPLE and not trash. We need to help addicts reintegrate into society and stop ostracizing them.

Rehab facilities are a ****ing joke here in the US. They need to actually give a damn about helping people and not just collecting revenue and letting dealers in (****ing vultures).

We need overall change to the entire system and to be honest, it'll never happen.

 

[Blusoul24]

First thing we need to do here is change how we treat recovering addicts. They're PEOPLE and not trash. We need to help addicts reintegrate into society and stop ostracizing them.

Rehab facilities are a ****ing joke here in the US. They need to actually give a damn about helping people and not just collecting revenue and letting dealers in (****ing vultures).

We need overall change to the entire system and to be honest, it'll never happen.

^^^^^ This ^^^^^

 

[Texan69]

A lot of crime is caused by drugs being ILLEGAL. Gangs/dealers fighting over turf/territory. Also makes the dealers/cartels rich. Lots of shootings, death, theft to buy drugs.

If they were legal, all that goes away. A lot less crime and violence in the poor neighborhoods. And look how many people are in prison for non violent drug crimes. That has to have a negative effect on the next generation, no father figure around, and thinking that that way to live is normal. The cycle continues.

I also think if everything were legal, practically nobody would pick the really harsh drugs. I mean look at Bacardi 151 or moonshine, super strong, almost nobody chooses it at the liquor stores.

Put all the money that goes into policing/fighting the drug dealers into education and rehab. Probably cheaper. Combined with the tax money generated.

Plus, what we've done has been an absolute failure. Why continue down the same path?

I agree with a lot of what you said but disagree in a way, from my first hand experience at working in a city that has a very large meth problem. These meth addicts can’t hold down a job which leads to property crimes such as theft and burglaries etc
but I agree how making them legal could cut down on the gang violence sure. But gangs would just find another illegal activity to get involved with perhaps.at the end of the day there is always gonna be crime for man is not without sin

 

[Texan69]

The problem is the treatment centers are worse then those people being out. You'll find more dealers in the rehabs than anywhere else. Rehab facilities here in the US are a joke and I'm talking about the most $$$ facilities.

Portugal decriminalized all drugs and look what it did for them. It turned around many of the stats that people look at.... for the better. Also, addicts need to be accepted back into society when they're trying to get their life back in order. They don't need to be punished like people do. They treat addicts like trash and that can/ does lead to relapse.

agreed, I think addiction to drugs is a medical/psych issue or at least should be treated as such. No different than someone who is depressed and over eats or gambles too much etc. drug addicts aren’t had people but it can make them do bad things and that’s where the problem with drugs lies. But I agree we shouldn’t shame them

 

[CJ]

I agree with a lot of what you said but disagree in a way, from my first hand experience at working in a city that has a very large meth problem. These meth addicts can’t hold down a job which leads to property crimes such as theft and burglaries etc
but I agree how making them legal could cut down on the gang violence sure. But gangs would just find another illegal activity to get involved with perhaps.at the end of the day there is always gonna be crime for man is not without sin

But I have to wonder.... If everything were legal, would it even get to the point where people were even going to try something like Meth? I don't know if someone would make that decision. I believe they'd stick to the "safer" drugs.

Sure, the people ALREADY hooked on it are a problem, but going forward....

And if it all were legal, would the stores even stock what wasn't selling? I doubt some of the crazy drugs would even be on the shelves, even though they were legal. A store isn't going to waste space on a product that doesn't sell.

Just some thoughts in my head.

Edit: but I wouldn't die on that hill, I'd be willing to compromise on not legalizing the harder stuff. I think that would accomplish a lot too.

 

[Texan69]

Libertarian.

Don't impact others’ lives in a negative way and do what the hell you want. I want no say about what others can/cannot should/shouldn’t do unless those actions harm others. I think the government should have a similar attitude.

Less government. Less punishment. More empathy.

War on drugs is futile and harmful.

I think BrotherJ has a fantastic post about libertarianism. Something about machine gun owning, pot growing lesbians.

i agree with you to a degree. I’m all for letting someone do what they want if it doesn’t impact others negatively.

But let me get your thoughts on this topic

“Wearing a seatbelt”.

Okay before becoming a first responder I say sure if you don’t wanna wear your seatbelt then don’t and it shouldn’t be illegal. A lot of people especially libertarians would probably agree it’s not up to them to tell someone to wear their seatbelt and I can see why. But now after witnessing many times the effect of not wearing your seatbelt I am strongly in favor of seatbelt laws and enforcing them. After seeing people ejected from their vehicle and weren’t wearing a seatbelt now we have several issues to deal with because they didn’t want to buckle up.

1. if you get ejected at a high speed crash you are most likely dead or seriously injured for life. A seatbelt may not have necessarily saved you but it gives you a much better chance at surviving than no seatbelt did. Now first responders are working a fatality wreck where it possibly could have just been a bad wreck. Now someone has to go to your families house to notify them that you’ve been killed. Not a fun task trust me I know.

2.they got ejected from their vehicle, the most likely wouldn’t have happened if they had been buckled up. So now we have to block off even more road way to conduct crash scene reconstruction because this person is dead or seriously injured so now traffic is held up even longer and even more road is being blocked this affecting other people’s commute times etc

something as simple as not wearing your seatbelt as first may seem harmless but it could absolutely impact other peoples life. This wasn’t the best topic but the first that came to mind. Im all for letting people live how they want but I am also in favor of laws that can help protect lives.

 

[NbleSavage]

I suppose I'm not a licensed Libertarian but I can get with "Do what ye want and do no harm to others" for sure.

I see laws as being necessary to discourage the lowest common denominator of the population from violating the above philosophy - either willfully or via ignorance.

I personally think drug laws and the "War on Drugs" is more about the busine$$ of the legal and prison systems than it is actually helping addicts to recover.

 

[Boytoy]

I suppose I'm not a licensed Libertarian but I can get with "Do what ye want and do no harm to others" for sure.

I see laws as being necessary to discourage the lowest common denominator of the population from violating the above philosophy - either willfully or via ignorance.

I personally think drug laws and the "War on Drugs" is more about the busine$$ of the legal and prison systems than it is actually helping addicts to recover.

Yep is all about the Benjamin's

 

[DF]

The war on drugs is a complete failure. Legalize all of it. Take the cash saved from putting a finger in the dyke and put it toward rehab ect.....

 

[Texan69]

Yep is all about the Benjamin's

unfortunately most of the justice system is all about the money

 

[Robdjents]

i agree with you to a degree. I’m all for letting someone do what they want if it doesn’t impact others negatively.

But let me get your thoughts on this topic

“Wearing a seatbelt”.

Okay before becoming a first responder I say sure if you don’t wanna wear your seatbelt then don’t and it shouldn’t be illegal. A lot of people especially libertarians would probably agree it’s not up to them to tell someone to wear their seatbelt and I can see why. But now after witnessing many times the effect of not wearing your seatbelt I am strongly in favor of seatbelt laws and enforcing them. After seeing people ejected from their vehicle and weren’t wearing a seatbelt now we have several issues to deal with because they didn’t want to buckle up.

1. if you get ejected at a high speed crash you are most likely dead or seriously injured for life. A seatbelt may not have necessarily saved you but it gives you a much better chance at surviving than no seatbelt did. Now first responders are working a fatality wreck where it possibly could have just been a bad wreck. Now someone has to go to your families house to notify them that you’ve been killed. Not a fun task trust me I know.

2.they got ejected from their vehicle, the most likely wouldn’t have happened if they had been buckled up. So now we have to block off even more road way to conduct crash scene reconstruction because this person is dead or seriously injured so now traffic is held up even longer and even more road is being blocked this affecting other people’s commute times etc

something as simple as not wearing your seatbelt as first may seem harmless but it could absolutely impact other peoples life. This wasn’t the best topic but the first that came to mind. Im all for letting people live how they want but I am also in favor of laws that can help protect lives.

I get where you went with this and I agree to an extent because once you are ejected the first responder scraping you off the highway is now in danger so it has impacted another person..true libertarians will wear seat belts because yes it can have an impact on another life. What happens personally to that person is irrelevant once you put that first responder in danger i have a saying it goes "ones freedom ends where anothers begins"