De criminalizing Controlled substances

[Texan69]

Wanted to create an open discussion about the de criminalization of controlled substances, I am mainly thinking of drugs like meth, heroine, cocaine, crack, PCP things of that nature.

I think Marijuana should be legal i don’t consider it a drug. Just gonna throw that out there.


I’ve seen a lot of discussion about decriminalizing the drugs I mentioned above...the hard street drugs if you will. I see both sides of it. If someone wants to shoot up or smoke dope and ruin their life then it’s not my job to tell them they can’t. The other side of me which comes from witnessing these things in person many times knows that the very people who abuse these drugs such as meth, crack, heroine are often the ones who are stealing stuff, stealing kids bikes from the yard to scrap it for some money to get High things like that. Most property crimes from what I have seen are committed by hard dope users because they can’t lock down and a job and need to get high by any means necessary. I’ve even seen dudes set up their girl to get assaulted...sexually by another dude in exchange for dope or money So they can get High. Those things don’t sit right with me. Obviously if your caught stealing or breaking a law like I mentioned above Lock em up.
but say an individual gets stopped for a traffic offense and has a few grams of meth on him that’s just for his personal use...do we lock them up for a few years?

My thoughts are yes we need to keep those drugs illegal because in my opinion with dope comes crime. So I don’t think we need to de criminalize these types of drugs but addiction is a serious issue and I feel for these people they aren’t necessarily bad people. I think instead of putting people in prison or county jail for narcotics charges they should be charged and sent to a rehab facility and get the treatment they need.. good quality treatment. Now I’ve heard in prison and jail there is resources there but they are not very effective...typical government funded stuff right. I think we need to focus on rehabilitation for these people and if they can prove sobriety for a set amount of time erase the charge off their record.

interested to see what you guys think.
this is just something I am passionate about as I have a close family member who’s life and their children’s life were torn apart by drugs. It’s very sad and prison never helped my family member if anything they got released and were worse

 

[Boytoy]

Rehab only works if the people want help not if they are forced to do it and even then it doesn't work most of the time.
Should do like the Phillipines did at one point or maybe still are. Shoot to kill. If you are dealing drugs they bust in and shoot you. The end.

 

[Texan69]

Rehab only works if the people want help not if they are forced to do it and even then it doesn't work most of the time.
Should do like the Phillipines did at one point or maybe still are. Shoot to kill. If you are dealing drugs they bust in and shoot you. The end.

I agree if they don’t want help or wanna do the work they won’t get better that is true

although I don’t agree someone should be killed for a drug offense

 

[Bro Bundy]

make it legal because your only making drug dealers rich..I can go buy any of those on the street at any time...... kill all the homeless in one giant sweep..Then sell the legal drugs to normal law abiding citizens that can provide the proof they work and own or rent a place to live..thats the bundy method

 

[Boytoy]

I agree if they don’t want help or wanna do the work they won’t get better that is true

although I don’t agree someone should be killed for a drug offense

Not saying shoot the users. Shoot the dealers.

 

[Sicwun88]

These days the courts usually offer 1st time drug offender drug court,rehabs & counseling I Know the courts of NJ have found a way to make a business out of it, which ends up costing the taxpayers more
And basically becomes a revolving door,they violate go to jail,
Get another chance,
Urines, probation officers, & so on!
Big business for the state
On the other hand last resort is prison which in NJ is all about punishment,they taken away all vocational programs, your lucky to even be able to get a GED in there these days! Everything seems to be a no win situation not tht some don't recover & move on to live a normal life!
Like everything else the state are the ones benefiting from it all in the end!!

 

[white ape]

My thought is, if it grows it should be legal. Shrooms, cactus, cappi vines, etc. how can the government tell us we can’t consume a plant that grows naturally.

I believe that drugs such as real LSD have uses. Medical uses. Therapeutic uses. MDMA could go here as well. LSD and MDMA get a bad wrap a lot, but the versions that are out in the street right now is most likely not the same batch and/or chemical compound of actual LSD and MDMA. Each time a version gets put on the schedule one list, manufacturers tweak the compounds a little bit. This way it’s a new drug and technically not illegal (yet)

never did understand meth or things like that though

 

[CJ]

A lot of crime is caused by drugs being ILLEGAL. Gangs/dealers fighting over turf/territory. Also makes the dealers/cartels rich. Lots of shootings, death, theft to buy drugs.

If they were legal, all that goes away. A lot less crime and violence in the poor neighborhoods. And look how many people are in prison for non violent drug crimes. That has to have a negative effect on the next generation, no father figure around, and thinking that that way to live is normal. The cycle continues.

I also think if everything were legal, practically nobody would pick the really harsh drugs. I mean look at Bacardi 151 or moonshine, super strong, almost nobody chooses it at the liquor stores.

Put all the money that goes into policing/fighting the drug dealers into education and rehab. Probably cheaper. Combined with the tax money generated.

Plus, what we've done has been an absolute failure. Why continue down the same path?

 

[dk8594]

Portugal is our test case. Anyone been?

https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

As far as my opinion stands today, without the benefit of someone who has seen decriminalization in action, I am of the opinion that we should criminalize MORE things and a
strengthen the ability to make citizen arrests.

“You, with the chick-a-fillet in your mouth. Pull over! You thought you could get away with sticking that greased up fried chicken sandwich in your mouth?!”

In this example, the perpetrator would be incarcerated for a number of days that corresponds with how many days calories were in his crispy, heavily breaded, and deep friend chicken patty. If it was 10,000 calories (I.e His 5 day caloric requirement) He gets sentenced to 5 days in my basement and 40 hours of manual labor doing the sh$t I don’t want to do around my house.

Obviously, I need to give this more thought, but you can see where I am going with this. MORE criminals , not fewer.

C’mom Texan....Mount up.It’s time for us to be Rangers.

 

[Trump]

Make it legal, right now I can get any drug delivered to my house quicker than a pizza. It’s so readily available that it may as well be legal, taxed and controlled

 

[BrotherIron]

The problem is the treatment centers are worse then those people being out. You'll find more dealers in the rehabs than anywhere else. Rehab facilities here in the US are a joke and I'm talking about the most $$$ facilities.

Portugal decriminalized all drugs and look what it did for them. It turned around many of the stats that people look at.... for the better. Also, addicts need to be accepted back into society when they're trying to get their life back in order. They don't need to be punished like people do. They treat addicts like trash and that can/ does lead to relapse.

 

[Jin]

Libertarian.

Don't impact others’ lives in a negative way and do what the hell you want. I want no say about what others can/cannot should/shouldn’t do unless those actions harm others. I think the government should have a similar attitude.

Less government. Less punishment. More empathy.

War on drugs is futile and harmful.

I think BrotherJ has a fantastic post about libertarianism. Something about machine gun owning, pot growing lesbians.

 

[Robdjents]

Libertarian.

Don't impact others’ lives in a negative way and do what the hell you want. I want no say about what others can/cannot should/shouldn’t do unless those actions harm others. I think the government should have a similar attitude.

Less government. Less punishment. More empathy.

War on drugs is futile and harmful.

I think BrotherJ has a fantastic post about libertarianism. Something about machine gun owning, pot growing lesbians.

This right here...its so dumb people actually debate on what others should and shouldn't be aloud to do....here's a thought...its nobody's business!!!

 

[transcend2007]

My issue is all of this has been tried and failed ... very similar to socialism ... people who to do not know history tend to repeat it ...

Civil society requires rules and laws ... I understand its not popular to today to state these old fashioned ideals ...

There is a reason hard drugs are illegal ... besides the obvious point they are dangerous .. go beyond that ... do you know anyone who does heroin recreationally .. its not like you get off work and just shoot up a little ... if your on herion your a junky period .. crack .. meth and others same thing ... we need more productive engaged people ... not people high as F ....

Look at place like San Francisco as an example .. a once beautiful city .. now has thousand of homeless junkies endorsed and supported by the government .. free needles and cash support ... who's asking the question what positive could any of this bring ...

Another example is nearly 70,000 drug overdose deaths in 2019 ... too bad the media track and report those deaths daily ... no they are too busy trying to elect Biden ...

Does anyone else feel that the US we all knew and loved is being lost ... and unless people (of all races) stand up - it is going to be lost .. China is not our friend - they manufacture most of the illegal fentanyl for the entire world and what is killing nearly 100K US citizens per year ... how can this not be considered an act of war ... ??

The simple answer is we need more police not less ... and we need to enforce the laws on the books period ... nothing good will come for legalizing hard drugs (or even marijuana if we're being honest) ...

 

[DOOM]

At this point the drug war in this country is too complicated to right itself. Americas insatiable appetite for drugs is never ending as is the supply.

Imo opinion hard drugs should not be decriminalized. At the same time I don’t think the penalty for possession for personal use should be a long and hash as it presently is.

 

[Jin]

At this point the drug war in this country is too complicated to right itself. Americas insatiable appetite for drugs is never ending as is the supply.

Imo opinion hard drugs should not be decriminalized. At the same time I don’t think the penalty for possession for personal use should be a long and hash as it presently is.

I can agree with this, from a certain perspective.

Users are doing harm to themselves. Let it be legal to buy, use posses.

Dealers are hurting others. Let that remain criminal.

Nobody should be in jail for possesing drugs for personal use. IMO.

I don’t know the right answer but the above is reasonable and I’d like to see it implemented.

 

[CJ]

Imo opinion hard drugs should not be decriminalized...

My thinking is that nobody would even WANT the really harsh drugs if the less dangerous drugs were legal. I highly doubt that anybody just decides out of the blue, you know what I think I'd like to try, fentanyl.

Most go to the hard drugs because their prescription ends, they can't get any more pain pills, so they go to heroin.

Fix the over prescribed RX issue, help people out if they do develop a problem, and they never get to heroin.

 

[DOOM]

My thinking is that nobody would even WANT the really harsh drugs if the less dangerous drugs were legal. I highly doubt that anybody just decides out of the blue, you know what I think I'd like to try, fentanyl.

Most go to the hard drugs because their prescription ends, they can't get any more pain pills, so they go to heroin.

Fix the over prescribed RX issue, help people out if they do develop a problem, and they never get to heroin.

You are right about the RX drugs leading to street level consumption. Though this is only the tip of the iceberg. Also not all RX drugs are prescribed there has and always will be a substantial black market.

What you describe is all to familiar for me. I had a long time ex girlfriend that was buying black market pills from elderly man at her work and hid it from everyone. Sure as shit after I broke up with her she turned to heroine and almost died a few times! I grew up in drug infested city and there were many different social and economic reasons reasons people turned to different types of harsh drugs.

In my experiences depression and hard times leads too most of these people taking this path. Most didn’t plan on becoming addicts either.

 

[CJ]

You are right about the RX drugs leading to street level consumption. Though this is only the tip of the iceberg. Also the not RX drugs are prescribed there is a has and always will be a substantial black market.

What you describe is all to familiar for me. I had a long time ex girlfriend that was buying black market pills from elderly man at her work and hid it from everyone. Sure as shit after I broke up with her she turned to heroine and almost died a few times! I grew up in drug infested city and there were many different social and economic reasons reasons people turned to different types of harsh drugs.

In my experiences depression and hard times leads too most of these people taking this path. Most didn’t plan on becoming addicts either.

Agree with all that.

But I think a side benefit of legalization will be that the negative stigma of being an "addict" would lessen significantly. People would be more likely to seek help, and others help them. Part of the taxes associated with their legality should go towards education, treatment, and liability funds.

Just a quick thought.

 

[BrotherIron]

I can agree with this, from a certain perspective.

Users are doing harm to themselves. Let it be legal to buy, use posses.

Dealers are hurting others. Let that remain criminal.

Nobody should be in jail for possesing drugs for personal use. IMO.

I don’t know the right answer but the above is reasonable and I’d like to see it implemented.

It has already been implemented in another country and it's turned that country around in a decade.