Help intermediate cycle without tren - lean bulk

[alky]

hi to all ugbb forum


i need your help


37 years - 174cm - 76 kg - bf 9/10%


I'm going to plan the next cycle (4th) with the goal of putting on some clean muscle. I don't want to use tren, for its side effects (especially insomnia)!
moreover I am a subject that tends to aromatize a lot (gyno with 500mg week of testo. surgically removed)
I was thinking about this:


cycle:
week 1-8 250mg to week of test en
week 1-8 250mg to week of eq und
week 1-8 400mg to week of masteron en
week 1-4 50mg to day of anavar
week 5-8 50mg to day of winny
week 1-8 25mg to day of aromasin
week 1-8 120mg to day of raloxifene
week 3-8 500ui to week of hcg


PRE-PCT (foreign output eq):
week 1-2 25mg to day of aromasin
week 1-2 120mg to day of raloxifene
week 1-2 1200ui to week of hcg

PCT:
week 3-7 20mg to day of tamoxifene (first 10days 40 mg)
week 3-6 50mg to day of clomiphene (first 7days 100 mg)


obviously take all liver supplements, lipids. I will follow a 250/300 kcal diet above the tdee


what do you think? what would you change?

 

[brock8282]

No offense but you weigh 76kilo and you’ve done 3 cycles. Instead of worrying about drugs you need to learn how to eat. 250-300 calories above tdee? How are you even determining YOUR tdee. Online calculators are rough guesses. You need to learn how to start pounding meat and potatoes/rice

 

[Gibsonator]

250mg test is hardly a cycle..
Also test enth/cyp needs to be ran longer than 8 weeks (12-16)
Same with eq as far as dose/duration goes.
How did you come up with this cycle?
If an 8 week cycle is what you're after then go with test prop & mast prop

 

[alky]

No offense but you weigh 76kilo and you’ve done 3 cycles. Instead of worrying about drugs you need to learn how to eat. 250-300 calories above tdee? How are you even determining YOUR tdee. Online calculators are rough guesses. You need to learn how to start pounding meat and potatoes/rice

ty for advise,

 

[alky]

250mg test is hardly a cycle..
Also test enth/cyp needs to be ran longer than 8 weeks (12-16)
Same with eq as far as dose/duration goes.
How did you come up with this cycle?
If an 8 week cycle is what you're after then go with test prop & mast prop

ty so much for reply!

what you think of this?

week 1-8 250mg every 3 days of test prop
week 1-8 200mg every 3 days of masteron prop
week 3-8 50mg every day of anavar or winny
week 1-8 25mg every day of aromasin
week 1-8 120mg every day of raloxifene
week 3-8 500ui to week of hcg

its a good idea add primobolan?

 

[Gibsonator]

Shorter esters should be pinned every other day or at least something like M/W/F.
Figure out the dosage per week and split it accordingly.
For example, if you pinned 1.5cc test/1.5cc mast M/W/F that would be 450 test/450 mast/week.(assuming they're 100mg/ml)

 

[alky]

Shorter esters should be pinned every other day or at least something like M/W/F.
Figure out the dosage per week and split it accordingly.
For example, if you pinned 1.5cc test/1.5cc mast M/W/F that would be 450 test/450 mast/week.(assuming they're 100mg/ml)

ok ty for advise!

and you thing that is good idea add primobolan?

 

[Spongy]

No to Primo.

I still think your cycle should be 12 weeks. You likely will not need aromasin or raloxifene since you are taking Masteron. I frequently cycle up to 750mg test per week without an AI and lowish doses of Masteron keep my estrogen down.

Taking mast, aroma, and raloxifene will likely crush your estrogen and you will feel miserable.

It's ok to have slightly high levels of estrogen. The only time a really pay attention is during prep for a show.

 

[Gabriel]

Keep it simple..400-500 Test for 12 wks.. either Mast or Var..and eat properly

 

[alky]

Shorter esters should be pinned every other day or at least something like M/W/F.
Figure out the dosage per week and split it accordingly.
For example, if you pinned 1.5cc test/1.5cc mast M/W/F that would be 450 test/450 mast/week.(assuming they're 100mg/ml)

can it be better this way?

i like to pin every 3 days

1-8 250mg every 3 days of test ena week
1-8 200mg every 3 days of masteron ena week
3-8 50mg every day of anavar

dosage of aromasin and ralox after blood test

 

[andy]

Keep it simple..400-500 Test for 12 wks.. either Mast or Var..and eat properly

This is the one

 

[CJ]

200 Test Prop
400 NPP
200 Mast Prop

12 weeks.
Eat good, train hard.

 

[Trump]

dude if using enth your cycle needs to be longer. If you want it 8 weeks then you need to use shorter ester and pin mwf. Either take the advice you been given repeatedly or just do your own thing and let us know how you get on

can it be better this way?

i like to pin every 3 days

1-8 250mg every 3 days of test ena week
1-8 200mg every 3 days of masteron ena week
3-8 50mg every day of anavar

dosage of aromasin and ralox after blood test

View attachment 10429

 

[CJ]

No offense but you weigh 76kilo and you’ve done 3 cycles. Instead of worrying about drugs you need to learn how to eat. 250-300 calories above tdee? How are you even determining YOUR tdee. Online calculators are rough guesses. You need to learn how to start pounding meat and potatoes/rice

Agreed, there's something up with your diet and/or training. You don't need 1,250 mg of drugs per week to grow from 74 kilos (166 lbs). You need to step back and evaluate what you're doing.

 

[alky]

dude if using enth your cycle needs to be longer. If you want it 8 weeks then you need to use shorter ester and pin mwf. Either take the advice you been given repeatedly or just do your own thing and let us know how you get on

if I understand correctly I have to choose between these 2 options

week 1-8 170mg eod test prop
week 1-8 130mg eod of masteron prop
week 3-8 50mg every day of anavar
week 1-8 12,5 mg every day of aromasin (afet blod test adjust dosage)
week 1-8 60mg every day of raloxifene
week 3-8 500ui to week of hcg
pct start 2 days laters


OR


week 1-10 250mg every 3 days of test E
week 1-10 200mg every 3 days of masteron E
week 5-10 50mg every day of anavar
week 1-10 12,5 mg every day of aromasin (afet blod test adjust dosage)
week 1-10 60mg every day of raloxifene
week 3-10 500ui to week of hcg
pct start 5 days laters

 

[Trump]

second option 12 weeks then choose one, however your diet needs to be addressed as brock highlighted. Without that aas is pointless

if I understand correctly I have to choose between these 2 options

week 1-8 170mg eod test prop
week 1-8 130mg eod of masteron prop
week 3-8 50mg every day of anavar
week 1-8 12,5 mg every day of aromasin (afet blod test adjust dosage)
week 1-8 60mg every day of raloxifene
week 3-8 500ui to week of hcg
pct start 2 days laters


OR


week 1-10 250mg every 3 days of test E
week 1-10 200mg every 3 days of masteron E
week 5-10 50mg every day of anavar
week 1-10 12,5 mg every day of aromasin (afet blod test adjust dosage)
week 1-10 60mg every day of raloxifene
week 3-10 500ui to week of hcg
pct start 5 days laters

 

[brock8282]

IMO 8 week cycles are dumb unless cutting. It takes time to build muscle mass. In 8 weeks you are mostly just going to have temporarily inflated your muscles with water and glycogen. Longer is better. Why are you hesitant on a longer cycle?

 

[alky]

[QUOTE = brock8282; 626160] I cicli di 8 settimane IMO sono stupidi a meno che non vengano tagliati. Ci vuole tempo per costruire massa muscolare. In 8 settimane per lo più avrai solo temporaneamente gonfiato i muscoli con acqua e glicogeno. Più a lungo è meglio. Perché esiti su un ciclo più lungo? [/ QUOTE]

the trainer who followed me always made me do 8 weeks cycles!


I've been considering doing it for 12 weeks maybe with a pin every 4 days

week 1-12 250 mg every 4 test days E (or 3 days?)
week 1-12 250 mg every 4 days of masteron E (or 3 days?)
week 7-12 50 mg each day of anavar
week 1-12 12.5 mg every day of aromasin (after blod test adjust dosage)
week 1-12 60 mg raloxifene each day
week 3-12 500ui per week of hcg

pct start 5 days later

some question

diet 5/600 plus real tdee is good? (calculated empirically no with online calc)
0.8 fat - 2.5 pro - rest cho

can i add more oral for first 4 weeks?



thanks to everyone for the precious advices

 

[Trump]

if the goal is to gain weight start at 500 above tdee for 2 weeks if your not gaining increase it to 1000 above. Do this until you start gaining. Also just pin every mon and fri 250mg of each will be fine

[QUOTE = brock8282; 626160] I cicli di 8 settimane IMO sono stupidi a meno che non vengano tagliati. Ci vuole tempo per costruire massa muscolare. In 8 settimane per lo più avrai solo temporaneamente gonfiato i muscoli con acqua e glicogeno. Più a lungo è meglio. Perché esiti su un ciclo più lungo? [/ QUOTE]

the trainer who followed me always made me do 8 weeks cycles!


I've been considering doing it for 12 weeks maybe with a pin every 4 days

week 1-12 250 mg every 4 test days E (or 3 days?)
week 1-12 250 mg every 4 days of masteron E (or 3 days?)
week 7-12 50 mg each day of anavar
week 1-12 12.5 mg every day of aromasin (after blod test adjust dosage)
week 1-12 60 mg raloxifene each day
week 3-12 500ui per week of hcg

pct start 5 days later

some question

diet 5/600 plus real tdee is good? (calculated empirically no with online calc)
0.8 fat - 2.5 pro - rest cho

can i add more oral for first 4 weeks?



thanks to everyone for the precious advices

 

[brock8282]

if the goal is to gain weight start at 500 above tdee for 2 weeks if your not gaining increase it to 1000 above. Do this until you start gaining. Also just pin every mon and fri 250mg of each will be fine

this but I would do it immediately, the first part of your cycle you will gain weight regardless from water and glycogen increasing, you want to make sure you are actually eating in a surplus. 500 above may actually be your maintenance and you won’t be able to tell by the scale the first month of a new cycle.