Getting ready for my second cycle 12 years later

[Arnobio3266]

[FONT=&quot]Hello everyone[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have been planning a second cycle recently ( my last cycle was 12 years ago) and would appreciate any feedback from more experienced members.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]My first and last cycle was 300mg Test -e for 12 weeks and a PCT of 4 weeks with clomid and Nolva. My goal was not to gain mass, but Strength and Stamina, so I ran it in conjunction of a lot of HIIT, martial arts training and the 5x5 strength routine.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Now, I have been lifting for about 4 years and would like to increase mass and strength, so I have been and will continue while on cycle to use the 5x5 routine and additional isolated training 5x a week.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Diet is on check so I am hoping to gain at least 15 pounds of muscle while losing about 20 of fat.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]My stats:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]80 kgs - 173 lbs[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1,73 mt - 5’9”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23% body fat (recently air displacement scan)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The cycle:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Week 1 to 12- 500 mg of Test E and 300mg of Deca both injected twice a week[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Week 14 to 16-PCT of Clomid 100 and Nolva 40 daily[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Week 17 to 18- PCT of Clomid 50 and Nolva 30 daily[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Still unsure if Arimidex would be a good idea during cycle. I had no signs of gyno on my first cycle, but the dosage was lower, so if any suggestions on that I would be grateful.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I read that caber taken during the cycle would be necessary, so I am reading further about it trying to learn what would be the suggested dosages.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I had blood drawn a few days ago and I am posting it here if anyone interested in seeing it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I am in the low range with WBC, RDW ( most likely because of Being on Keto) and low in neutrophils possibly because of my allergies. I will be speaking to my family doctor about those before attempting to start pinning.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Thanks so much for reading it and I hope I will get some valuable feedback and suggestions

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[CJ]

It's been 12 years, you're basically doing your first cycle again.

I bet a simple 500mg of Test would be great for you.

 

[Arnobio3266]

It's been 12 years, you're basically doing your first cycle again.

I bet a simple 500mg of Test would be great for you.

I thought the same and I agree with you. I thought about Deca in order to help me with my joints. I am older now and a bit brittle lol! also I read it could help me with keeping my hair. I understand hair loss is part of using AAS , but if could keep it I would opt for it. Would you say these are valid reasons or would my joints feel ok during cycle with TEst only?

 

[CJ]

I thought the same and I agree with you. I thought about Deca in order to help me with my joints. I am older now and a bit brittle lol! also I read it could help me with keeping my hair. I understand hair loss is part of using AAS , but if could keep it I would opt for it. Would you say these are valid reasons or would my joints feel ok during cycle with TEst only?

Lots of people swear by low dose Deca added for joint relief, maybe a lower dose, like 200mg and probably avoid any issues needing Caber?

From my understanding, hair loss is both a genetic thing, and accelerated by DHT steroids, which Deca is not, but Test does metabolize down to DHT. I don't believe Deca prevents this in any way.

 

[Arnobio3266]

Lots of people swear by low dose Deca added for joint relief, maybe a lower dose, like 200mg and probably avoid any issues needing Caber?

From my understanding, hair loss is both a genetic thing, and accelerated by DHT steroids, which Deca is not, but Test does metabolize down to DHT. I don't believe Deca prevents this in any way.

Bringing it down to 200 sounds like a solid advice. I have no source for caber so it was making things a bit trickier for me.
I lost some hair when I hit 42, but Was able to fix it by getting FUE in Turkey so that is always an option for future!

 

[Jin]

Never seen anyone that claims 150 is insufficient for therapeutic dose deca.

No need to go higher than that from what I gather.

It only works while you’re taking it. If you plan to use it continuously for the rest of your lifting career you should aim for the lowest possible dose that provides joint relief. I’m considering this myself in the future.

 

[Arnobio3266]

Never seen anyone that claims 150 is insufficient for therapeutic dose deca.

No need to go higher than that from what I gather.

It only works while you’re taking it. If you plan to use it continuously for the rest of your lifting career you should aim for the lowest possible dose that provides joint relief. I’m considering this myself in the future.

Thanks Jim
I actually never thought about running it indefinitely and your post opened up another option which I would like to investigate further. at firt I thought I would use it to help me while lifting hard during the cycle, but on a second thought, I will need to lift even harder after I end the test cycle in order to keep the gains. How would PCT work in this case?

 

[Jin]

Thanks Jim
I actually never thought about running it indefinitely and your post opened up another option which I would like to investigate further. at firt I thought I would use it to help me while lifting hard during the cycle, but on a second thought, I will need to lift even harder after I end the test cycle in order to keep the gains. How would PCT work in this case?

You can only run deca continuously if you’re committed to a life of exogenous testosterone dependence/TRT.

I suggest you get blood work before you cycle.

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/thre...s-get-your-bloodwork-done?highlight=Bloodwork

 

[brock8282]

I will need to lift even harder after I end the test cycle in order to keep the gains. How would PCT work in this case?

a big mistake I think a lot of people make is not adjusting their training post cycle. Yes you will still need to lift hard and try your hardest to maintain strength. But your recovery capabilities will be decreased so you are going to have to lower overall volume post cycle in order to retain the most muscle you possibly can. If you try doing just as much you will end up eating up a lot more muscle tissue.

 

[Arnobio3266]

a big mistake I think a lot of people make is not adjusting their training post cycle. Yes you will still need to lift hard and try your hardest to maintain strength. But your recovery capabilities will be decreased so you are going to have to lower overall volume post cycle in order to retain the most muscle you possibly can. If you try doing just as much you will end up eating up a lot more muscle tissue.

What would be a good protocol to follow once on that phase? Should I try to maintain the load and decrease volume by decreasing reps? Or simply go to failure each set and not bothering by the amount of reps. I guess ultimate effort might help with keeping mass?

 

[Sicwun88]

12yrs off? A test only cycle would be the way to go!!!

 

[Seeker]

a big mistake I think a lot of people make is not adjusting their training post cycle. Yes you will still need to lift hard and try your hardest to maintain strength. But your recovery capabilities will be decreased so you are going to have to lower overall volume post cycle in order to retain the most muscle you possibly can. If you try doing just as much you will end up eating up a lot more muscle tissue.

This is exactly what PFM and I would preach here years ago. Especially if one is going to run a PCT, even if returning to trt. Its one thing to challenge the catabolic process when on AAS ( when AAS is most active) you cannot continue this when off. You need to scale it back some

 

[brock8282]

What would be a good protocol to follow once on that phase? Should I try to maintain the load and decrease volume by decreasing reps? Or simply go to failure each set and not bothering by the amount of reps. I guess ultimate effort might help with keeping mass?

i dont know what your training routine looks like but i typically either do a top set and a back off set or just a double rest pause set for each exercise i do. When im in a state where recovery is hindered whether it is a cruise or deep in a diet i will not do any double rest pause sets, just 1 top set instead, and then i may take out an exercise or two from the routine or take out some back off sets, just depends on where recovery is at. it's really a learning process. The goal is to still mantain strength, if i did 300 pounds for 8 reps on a given exercise before, im going to push to still progress or atleast mantain that but that doesnt necessarily happen.

 

[Arnobio3266]

i dont know what your training routine looks like but i typically either do a top set and a back off set or just a double rest pause set for each exercise i do. When im in a state where recovery is hindered whether it is a cruise or deep in a diet i will not do any double rest pause sets, just 1 top set instead, and then i may take out an exercise or two from the routine or take out some back off sets, just depends on where recovery is at. it's really a learning process. The goal is to still mantain strength, if i did 300 pounds for 8 reps on a given exercise before, im going to push to still progress or at least maintain that but that doesnt necessarily happen.

Hey Brock
My routine is basically the 5x5 with some isolated lifts. I read about the double rep method and I am very interested in changing my routine. I won't start this cycle for another month or so. I want to make sure not only diet is in check, the cycle is properly planned and all gear on hands, but also a solid workout routine. I will plan a new routine and give it a start next week. At the end of the cycle I guess the way to go is to listen to my body and adjust as needed.
thanks again

 

[Arnobio3266]

Lots of people swear by low dose Deca added for joint relief, maybe a lower dose, like 200mg and probably avoid any issues needing Caber?

From my understanding, hair loss is both a genetic thing, and accelerated by DHT steroids, which Deca is not, but Test does metabolize down to DHT. I don't believe Deca prevents this in any way.

Thanks for the advice. I will decrease DEca to a maintenance dosage. I will start with 150 and after 4 weeks if I feel my joints are still brittle I will then increase to 200. I will refrain from going higher than that and hopefully no caber will be necessary.

 

[Arnobio3266]

12yrs off? A test only cycle would be the way to go!!!

Thanks for your post
I thought the same, but I am a bit uncertain if I will be able to take heavy training without at least therapeutic dosage of Deca. On my first run years ago I was not so stiff, so I cant tell if test alone is enough to help overcome joint soreness. What is your take on that?

 

[British-Beef]

If you can gain 15lbs of muscle while losing 20lbs of fat You sir are a god ..... seriously you are not losing 20lbs of fat and gaining 15lbs of muscle and definitely not on a test e , Deca 12 week cycle snd that the real truth bro just not happening.
if you need to drop 20lbs of fat your going need a calorie deficit and gaining muscle on a deficit is near impossible. My advice and I’m no expert, would be to do a recomp , run a short cut cycle of fast acting esters drop the fat get in good shape then run another cycle to build and stick some mast in there to keep the solid look from your recomp ...