Starting my cut

[Not2quick]

I've put on 30lbs since November. I'm ready to slim up a bit and hopefully not lose too much muscle. I've been eating 3-3,300 cals a day. I'm thinking about 2,500 for my calorie goal. Going to do my morning routine on an empty stomach. Protein shake right after with my breakfast a little later. Also instead of 1hr weight training M-F, I'm going to start with 30 min on the elliptical and 30 weights M,T, Th, F. 45min elliptical on Wed. During the lifting I was just going to focus on maybe 3 exercises per session. Just curious which ones will be most beneficial. Of course on leg day there will be squats, chest day bench, biceps day DB curls, but wanting some opinions. Also should I just keep on going with the weight I've been pushing, or should I drop some weight for more reps during this cutting period?

Shoulders:
Barbell Military press
Shrugs
DB shoulder press
DB slightly bent raise
DB front raise


Chest/Triceps:
Bench press
skull crushers
Incline press w DB
Diamond push-ups
DB fly
Triceps dip


Legs:
DB lunges
Squat
DB RDL's
DB step-ups


Back/Biceps:
Barbell rows overhand
Barbell rows underhand
DB rows
Curls
hammer curls
DB pullover on bench
DB bent over fly

Going to drop my creatine, and start an EC stack as well. Lastly adding an abdominal session in the evening. Maybe 20min. Anything I need to change? Add? Open to suggestions.

 

[1bigun11]

My humble thoughts. Have you considered holding on to that thirty extra pounds of mostly muscle you gained during your bulk for a few months prior to cutting? Just cut back on the food a little at a time till you find your spot that lets you maintain. It has always seemed to me that you keep the muscle better during your cut if you’ve held onto it for 3-4 months.

I see people all the time gaining twenty-thirty pounds on their bulk, then going straight into their cut and losing everything that they worked for. You won’t maintain your muscle if you don’t feed yourself enough to maintain it, and you won’t keep it if you don’t train heavy enough to maintain it.

Respect.

 

[CJ]

Yeah, hang onto the extra weight for awhile. I know it sucks, I'm going through it myself right now. Work on holding the weight, and getting stronger.

 

[Jin]

What the two guys above me said. Maintain for a bit first.

 

[Not2quick]

Son of a b****! This is not what I wanted to hear! The last thing that I want to do is erase four months of work. I guess it looks like I'm hanging onto this gut a little bit longer.

 

[Badleroybrown]

My humble thoughts. Have you considered holding on to that thirty extra pounds of mostly muscle you gained during your bulk for a few months prior to cutting? Just cut back on the food a little at a time till you find your spot that lets you maintain. It has always seemed to me that you keep the muscle better during your cut if you’ve held onto it for 3-4 months.

I see people all the time gaining twenty-thirty pounds on their bulk, then going straight into their cut and losing everything that they worked for. You won’t maintain your muscle if you don’t feed yourself enough to maintain it, and you won’t keep it if you don’t train heavy enough to maintain it.

Respect.

I could not agree with you more BG.. people
spend so much time trying to add weight that when that cycle is over the first thing they want to do is take the weight back off. It’s a mental Ming f**k not only for your mind but also makes their body say what!! It’s better to let the body acclimate to the new size and then slowly start to take the size off with some calorie cutting and cardio.. this way the body will have a better chance to retain a lot more of the newly added muscle.

 

[MuscleMedicineMD]

Of 30lbs/4mo, maybe 4-12lbs is lean muscle (assuming on cycle, excellent conditions & training). IS putting on bodywieght like that necessary for LBM gains underneath? this is always debated and not looking to go down that road.. IMO to each their own and we will see who looks best.
Abs should always be vaguely visible or you are eating well beyond the necessary calorie surplus. (remember this is fat you will have to loose eventually)
**You can start getting rid of this extra bodyfat now, but you are going to do it slowly, not crashing. By reducing calories slowly wk by wk, You WILL "hold" the Lean muscle gains.
DO NOT lighten the weights! No reason to change your actual lifting routine much, weights remain heavy, 1-3 RIR on final lifts, on each exercise. Starting to do higher reps, is the biggest mistake I see athletes make. Now for certain exercises, it should be mixed in anyway, more maximal sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, but serious heavy weight covers 80% of the total growth potential.
Fasted training is fine, just make sure the bulk of the Cardio is AFTER the training or you can split it up. Calories are mostly removed from the diet, Cardio is the icing on the cake.
Creatine is one of the most important muscle building supplements. do not remove!
Hold off on the ECA stack. Initially fat loss will be easy as calories drop, wait till youve plateaued, cut calories, plateaued, cut calories etc. THEN, add that in..

That's some quick advice. There's obviously much more in terms of training, exercises, rotation, detailed nutrition info and numeric goals, morning and nightly musts etc. O and anabolics, but that is why you hire a BBing coach it's the other 40wks of the year that I wish I could help you with..

Hope that helps,
Best,
MuscleMedicineMD

 

[Not2quick]

Of 30lbs/4mo, maybe 4-12lbs is lean muscle (assuming on cycle, excellent conditions & training). IS putting on bodywieght like that necessary for LBM gains underneath? this is always debated and not looking to go down that road.. IMO to each their own and we will see who looks best.
Abs should always be vaguely visible or you are eating well beyond the necessary calorie surplus. (remember this is fat you will have to loose eventually)
**You can start getting rid of this extra bodyfat now, but you are going to do it slowly, not crashing. By reducing calories slowly wk by wk, You WILL "hold" the Lean muscle gains.
DO NOT lighten the weights! No reason to change your actual lifting routine much, weights remain heavy, 1-3 RIR on final lifts, on each exercise. Starting to do higher reps, is the biggest mistake I see athletes make. Now for certain exercises, it should be mixed in anyway, more maximal sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, but serious heavy weight covers 80% of the total growth potential.
Fasted training is fine, just make sure the bulk of the Cardio is AFTER the training or you can split it up. Calories are mostly removed from the diet, Cardio is the icing on the cake.
Creatine is one of the most important muscle building supplements. do not remove!
Hold off on the ECA stack. Initially fat loss will be easy as calories drop, wait till youve plateaued, cut calories, plateaued, cut calories etc. THEN, add that in..

That's some quick advice. There's obviously much more in terms of training, exercises, rotation, detailed nutrition info and numeric goals, morning and nightly musts etc. O and anabolics, but that is why you hire a BBing coach it's the other 40wks of the year that I wish I could help you with..

Hope that helps,
Best,
MuscleMedicineMD

Survey says....hold the weight for a bit, lol. FYI Im not on a cycle. I hope to god 8-12 is lean mass. Im afraid that last 10lbs went right to my gut. Haha. Ill post some pics soon.

Yeah gonna lay off the EC stack until im ready to cut.

You say when im ready to cut to keep the heavy weight AND the creatine? I always thought to cut the creatine when cutting.

Also I may need a new thread for this, but ive been told to drop the aspirin in the ECA stack. I take an 81mg aspirin every morning. Is it necessary to take the other two with the other doses?

 

[MuscleMedicineMD]

ive chosen a career of helping people but I can only bring the horse to water... thats why we have discharges and AMA signatures.

You obviously feel at least the last 10lbs went right to your mid-section (and by all scientific law, a good portion of the first 20lbs was fat weight, especially natural!);
-again I will state, you can/should start to slowly cut calories, continue with heavy weights, AND take the creatine! for your specific situation, you will maintain any muscle gained and hopefully continue, while beginning to loose that extra fat.

The first two are logical in your case but with creatine since it holds a little water should it be dropped?
-Something that gives greater muscle power, strength, lean gains, recovery while having zero negative effects on fat losses (actually enhancing them) should not be stopped during training phases.

who told you to drop aspirin, and what was their logic?
It is great that you take a baby aspirin qAM; that dosage is all that is required to inhibit platelet aggregation around cholesterol clefts via PgA2, but it is not enough for its positive effects within the ECA stack, where it works to slow the bodies own downregulatory protective processes to the enhanced CNS stimulation and fat loss via Norepinephrine.

Can you please post a couple progress pictures here to better understand your LBM distribution.
-how much did your ratios improve?
ie. arms to waist..46%or better, and improving during wieght gain (for most guys) is a good indicator your program is working. (measure flexed and in the AM).

hope this helps, keep us posted,
Best,
M3

 

[Not2quick]

who told you to drop aspirin, and what was their logic?
It is great that you take a baby aspirin qAM; that dosage is all that is required to inhibit platelet aggregation around cholesterol clefts via PgA2, but it is not enough for its positive effects within the ECA stack, where it works to slow the bodies own downregulatory protective processes to the enhanced CNS stimulation and fat loss via Norepinephrine.

Can you please post a couple progress pictures here to better understand your LBM distribution.
-how much did your ratios improve?
ie. arms to waist..46%or better, and improving during wieght gain (for most guys) is a good indicator your program is working. (measure flexed and in the AM).

hope this helps, keep us posted,
Best,
M3

Just read online a while back. Probably some random article. I'll make sure to include in TID when I'm ready to start the cut.

Yes I'll get some pics up soon.

 

[MuscleMedicineMD]

28lb of fat gained? 2-4lb REAL muscle max if super genetics and newbie?! Was I too generous?
This is a top 20 ProBBing coach in the country, has trained many of the top pro's today, in every division, male and female, and is Pro himself (Masters degree in Kinesiology).
Must watch for natural BBing!

(125) How Much Muscle Will You Really Gain as a Natural Each Year!!! - YouTube

experts say...you ate wayyy too much..lol
He has 100's of videos, if you havent seen them all, you should for perspective and knowledge.

 

[Charger69]

ive chosen a career of helping people but I can only bring the horse to water... thats why we have discharges and AMA signatures.

You obviously feel at least the last 10lbs went right to your mid-section (and by all scientific law, a good portion of the first 20lbs was fat weight, especially natural!);
-again I will state, you can/should start to slowly cut calories, continue with heavy weights, AND take the creatine! for your specific situation, you will maintain any muscle gained and hopefully continue, while beginning to loose that extra fat.

The first two are logical in your case but with creatine since it holds a little water should it be dropped?
-Something that gives greater muscle power, strength, lean gains, recovery while having zero negative effects on fat losses (actually enhancing them) should not be stopped during training phases.

who told you to drop aspirin, and what was their logic?
It is great that you take a baby aspirin qAM; that dosage is all that is required to inhibit platelet aggregation around cholesterol clefts via PgA2, but it is not enough for its positive effects within the ECA stack, where it works to slow the bodies own downregulatory protective processes to the enhanced CNS stimulation and fat loss via Norepinephrine.

Can you please post a couple progress pictures here to better understand your LBM distribution.
-how much did your ratios improve?
ie. arms to waist..46%or better, and improving during wieght gain (for most guys) is a good indicator your program is working. (measure flexed and in the AM).

hope this helps, keep us posted,
Best,
M3

Interesting... I have seen studies that the results on fat loss is not effected by the aspirin..... only in the case of obese individuals.
Do you have other studies that I have not seen that show that actual effect of aspirin on weight loss?

 

[BRICKS]

28lb of fat gained? 2-4lb REAL muscle max if super genetics and newbie?! Was I too generous?
This is a top 20 ProBBing coach in the country, has trained many of the top pro's today, in every division, male and female, and is Pro himself (Masters degree in Kinesiology).
Must watch for natural BBing!

(125) How Much Muscle Will You Really Gain as a Natural Each Year!!! - YouTube

experts say...you ate wayyy too much..lol
He has 100's of videos, if you havent seen them all, you should for perspective and knowledge.

Yeah you were too generous. My average is 0.5 lbs per month, averaged over 3 years. That's cycling, with 4 decades of experience and training and diet dialed in tight. That's with 20-30 lb "bulking" then "cutting" and with just staying lean and going with slow steady gains. Results were measured from cut to cut, leanest to leanest over the last three years. So yeah, most of that 30 lbs was fat and water. Why guys still put on 30 lbs only to cut most of it to look good I have no idea. Time and patience. Do the work, discipline, trust the process.

Gaining should should be a a few hundred cals over maintenance and cutting fat should be the same. Unless you want to look like shit half the year and then work your ass off to look good the other half. It's inefficient. It puts un necessary stress on your body. Progress in the iron game is measured in inches, not feet.

Just my two cents.

 

[MuscleMedicineMD]

Yeah you were too generous. My average is 0.5 lbs per month, averaged over 3 years. That's cycling, with 4 decades of experience and training and diet dialed in tight. That's with 20-30 lb "bulking" then "cutting" and with just staying lean and going with slow steady gains. Results were measured from cut to cut, leanest to leanest over the last three years. So yeah, most of that 30 lbs was fat and water. Why guys still put on 30 lbs only to cut most of it to look good I have no idea. Time and patience. Do the work, discipline, trust the process.

Gaining should should be a a few hundred cals over maintenance and cutting fat should be the same. Unless you want to look like shit half the year and then work your ass off to look good the other half. It's inefficient. It puts un necessary stress on your body. Progress in the iron game is measured in inches, not feet.

Just my two cents.

thank you, sometimes I feel like Im going insane reading some of these threads/post. When I first read it, this being the board that it is, I just assumed it was while on a heavy cycle.. which is why once i realized, adjusted the approx. gains.
but BRICKS, survey clearly said, hold on to all that fat lol..

i'm not trying to be flippant, seriously, please post these "aspirin has no added benefit in an ECA stack except on people with a BMI over 30" studies..
It is cycled anyway as you know so the harmful effects of higher dose NSAIDs shouldnt be much of a concern, you will come back down to your 81mg soon enough. So unless your GI cannot handle the inhibited PGs, take it.

Best of luck,
MuscleMedMD

 

[BRICKS]

thank you, sometimes I feel like Im going insane reading some of these threads/post. When I first read it, this being the board that it is, I just assumed it was while on a heavy cycle.. which is why once i realized, adjusted the approx. gains.
but BRICKS, survey clearly said, hold on to all that fat lol..

i'm not trying to be flippant, seriously, please post these "aspirin has no added benefit in an ECA stack except on people with a BMI over 30" studies..
It is cycled anyway as you know so the harmful effects of higher dose NSAIDs shouldnt be much of a concern, you will come back down to your 81mg soon enough. So unless your GI cannot handle the inhibited PGs, take it.

Best of luck,
MuscleMedMD

Assuming the part about ASA is not directed my way as I didn't mention it at all. As far as the survey and keeping weight for a while, plenty of times I've went from gaining to cutting in the same cycle and have had success everytime as measured by hitting my goals. Again, that comes from keeping gaining and cutting calories a reasonable amount above or below maintenance. Like 200-300 above or below.

 

[white ape]

this resonated with me strongly. Thank you. It put some things into perspective for me regarding the whole "bulk" and "cut" process. I guess I always looked at bulking as an excuse to eat more than what I should because i'm "making those gains bro." haha. Im not fat, im bulking!

Yeah you were too generous. My average is 0.5 lbs per month, averaged over 3 years. That's cycling, with 4 decades of experience and training and diet dialed in tight. That's with 20-30 lb "bulking" then "cutting" and with just staying lean and going with slow steady gains. Results were measured from cut to cut, leanest to leanest over the last three years. So yeah, most of that 30 lbs was fat and water. Why guys still put on 30 lbs only to cut most of it to look good I have no idea. Time and patience. Do the work, discipline, trust the process.

Gaining should should be a a few hundred cals over maintenance and cutting fat should be the same. Unless you want to look like shit half the year and then work your ass off to look good the other half. It's inefficient. It puts un necessary stress on your body. Progress in the iron game is measured in inches, not feet.

Just my two cents.

 

[Not2quick]

ive chosen a career of helping people but I can only bring the horse to water... thats why we have discharges and AMA signatures.

You obviously feel at least the last 10lbs went right to your mid-section (and by all scientific law, a good portion of the first 20lbs was fat weight, especially natural!);
-again I will state, you can/should start to slowly cut calories, continue with heavy weights, AND take the creatine! for your specific situation, you will maintain any muscle gained and hopefully continue, while beginning to loose that extra fat.

The first two are logical in your case but with creatine since it holds a little water should it be dropped?
-Something that gives greater muscle power, strength, lean gains, recovery while having zero negative effects on fat losses (actually enhancing them) should not be stopped during training phases.

who told you to drop aspirin, and what was their logic?
It is great that you take a baby aspirin qAM; that dosage is all that is required to inhibit platelet aggregation around cholesterol clefts via PgA2, but it is not enough for its positive effects within the ECA stack, where it works to slow the bodies own downregulatory protective processes to the enhanced CNS stimulation and fat loss via Norepinephrine.

Can you please post a couple progress pictures here to better understand your LBM distribution.
-how much did your ratios improve?
ie. arms to waist..46%or better, and improving during wieght gain (for most guys) is a good indicator your program is working. (measure flexed and in the AM).

hope this helps, keep us posted,
Best,
M3

After a week or so I leveled out at 205, so a 25lb gain over the last 4 months. Last 10 lbs was in a month. Definitely too fast and it shows.

Here are a few pics. 180-195-205

 

[MuscleMedicineMD]

Thank you for posting pictures.
I can see the overall mass gains, nice, but true muscle gains are hard to determine via these pictures until you cut down to the previous Bf%. As I stated above, Measurements (upper leg, arm) and strength gains might be the better option in this case for piece of mind and to determine progress.
-You have good thickness. Keep chipping away at the sculpture.
-you need to start killing BACK, TRICEPS, HAMS..you should adjust your workout routine to include extra attention.
I dont see a wedding band, so if you are still single, keep in mind being leaner beat mass always for women (obviously)

*I see you tried. Always take pictures from the same distance, same angle, spacing etc. so the viewer can line up for direct part-for-part comparisons*
Good work my friend, BBing is a like watching a slow motion film for everyone.
Best,
MuscleMedicineMD

ps. ASA comment not for you Bricks, I should have written the paragraphs in reverse for clarity of comment order, so disregard. Thanks.