TRT impact on cholesterol

[Crom]

Hello UG friends,
Just did my most recent labs. Here's my issue. My doctor has had a TRT clinic since 2006. However, I'm not 100% convinced he knows wtf he's talking about. I went on TRT October 2019 and he still hasn't locked me in yet. He's obsessed with cholesterol numbers Free and Total test.

Anyway, my previous protocol was pretty good, I felt like I was starting to get somewhere. Mood was good, workouts were good, eating was good, sleep was great. Labs came back spotless. Only issue was my total test was 1008 and my free T was 260. Even though my labs were perfect he dropped my dose. I'm going to share some numbers with dates below.

Test April 22, 2020

Cholesterol total 247
HDL 44
LDL 172
NON HDL 203

Estradiol 40
Total Test 840
Free Test 180.6

October 20 2020 - Protocol 100 x2 a week. (My favorite so far)

HDL 41
LDL 129

Estradiol 31
Total TEST 1088
Free TEST 285.1 - Is this really high? What kind of numbers to guys on a blast see as far as Free T?

April 28 2021 - 160 mg a week

HDL 47
LDL 171
Total 245

Estradiol 40
Total TEST 717
Free test 207.9

Octobers labs I felt the best I had felt in years. I was told they treat symptoms not numbers, but he's obsessed with my labs and cholesterol. I didn't share a bunch of other crap because it was all in the green, meaning within healthy ranges. If there's something in specific you want numbers for just lemme know. The trend seems to be, the lower my Test goes, the crappier my labs get. I see my doc this Thursday

Thanks!

 

[Send0]

Hello UG friends,
Just did my most recent labs. Here's my issue. My doctor has had a TRT clinic since 2006. However, I'm not 100% convinced he knows wtf he's talking about. I went on TRT October 2019 and he still hasn't locked me in yet. He's obsessed with cholesterol numbers Free and Total test.

Anyway, my previous protocol was pretty good, I felt like I was starting to get somewhere. Mood was good, workouts were good, eating was good, sleep was great. Labs came back spotless. Only issue was my total test was 1008 and my free T was 260. Even though my labs were perfect he dropped my dose. I'm going to share some numbers with dates below.

Test April 22, 2020

Cholesterol total 247
HDL 44
LDL 172
NON HDL 203

Estradiol 40
Total Test 840
Free Test 180.6

October 20 2020 - Protocol 100 x2 a week. (My favorite so far)

HDL 41
LDL 129

Estradiol 31
Total TEST 1088
Free TEST 285.1 - Is this really high? What kind of numbers to guys on a blast see as far as Free T?

April 28 2021 - 160 mg a week

HDL 47
LDL 171
Total 245

Estradiol 40
Total TEST 717
Free test 207.9

Octobers labs I felt the best I had felt in years. I was told they treat symptoms not numbers, but he's obsessed with my labs and cholesterol. I didn't share a bunch of other crap because it was all in the green, meaning within healthy ranges. If there's something in specific you want numbers for just lemme know. The trend seems to be, the lower my Test goes, the crappier my labs get. I see my doc this Thursday

Thanks!

He should definitely be obsessed with your cholesterol. Your LDL is pretty craptastic, and I'm not trying to be a jerk about it. The numbers for October 2020 are better, which makes sense since exogenous test tends to lower both HDL and LDL inversely to test levels, and the numbers from October do reflect this at the higher dose.

Now with that said, a 40mg weekly difference in testosterone should not result in a 40-50 point jump in LDL. This leads me to believe something in your lifestyle is the cause of the large changes in your LDL; most likely your diet and/or not enough cardio.

You could try splitting your 160mg dose into two 80mg doses... which will help lower your estradiol if your concerned about that, but if there's any change in cholesterol then I feel it would be more coincidence than anything else.

Honestly, I would be trying to run the minimum amount of test for TRT as possible.... and then put all my energy focusing on diet and cardio to drive my LDL numbers down. This is just my opinion.

 

[Send0]

Also, what is your current height, weight, and body fat percentage?

Also provide your glucose, cortisol, and thyroid profile numbers if you have them as well.

 

[sfw509]

I understand him being concerned with your cholesterol, especially if there is personal or family history of cardiac issues. What has your diet been like while in trt? There is some research out there saying diet is not everything when it comes to cholesterol numbers but it does play a big role.

Do you take anything for your cholesterol, otc or prescription?

I agree with Send0 about splitting the your dose.

 

[Send0]

In addition to the other numbers I asked for, please also provide your AST and ALT numbers.

 

[Send0]

There is some research out there saying diet is not everything when it comes to cholesterol numbers but it does play a big role.

To clarify for Crom... the first half of your statement is correct as it relates to dietary cholesterol. However the type of fats in the food we eat absolutely have a major impact on both LDL and HDL cholesterol; which you did say, but the wording kind of downplays it... which I don't think we should be downplaying anything because an LDL of 170+, and total cholesterol of nearly 250 is no joke.

Both polysaturated (i.e. omega 3's) and monosaturated fats can increase HDL and reduce LDL. Similarly, soluble fiber also increases HDL and lowers LDL. In contrast, saturated fats, trans fats, etc raise LDL and lower HDL.

Weight (fat) loss, and exercise have been shown in multiple studies to significantly improve both HDL and LDL. At least as well, if not even more, than diet alone.

Not trying to beat a dead horse. I just didn't want the statement from sfw to be down played... because there is absolutely a well defined relationship between diet and cholesterol (both good and bad), and your doctor is absolutely right to be very concerned. These type of numbers lead to heart attacks, strokes, etc if they aren't corrected.

 

[Send0]

I doubt it helps, but here are my most recent cholesterol numbers. Most of my dietary fat comes from cod liver oil, I have a good amount of soluble fiber daily, and I do low intensity cardio in the mornings... followed by 10 minutes of HIIT at the end of my lifting workouts. I lift 6 days a week. There are other little things I do that likely play a role in my numbers, but the point is that I tick many of the well documented ways on how to have good cholesterol numbers.

You don't need to have numbers as good as mine... to be honest I wasn't trying to lower my LDL or total cholesterol. My numbers are a secondary result of just trying to be consistent with my diet for gains purposes, and the result just happened to be very good cholesterol numbers.

HDL = 48
LDL = 44
Triglycerides = 46
Total cholesterol = 101
Fasted glucose = 70
AST = 24
ALT = 17

 

[j2048b]

Ive had "high" cholesterol for years even on test, ldl never budges below 177, usually a total of 240+, ive been told cholesterol numbers are a farce, especially if everything else is good, my urologist also has a clinic, and ive been going thru him for years, he laughs when i tell him others think my cholesterol is high... I cannot diet to get it down, if anyone has anything besides statins (blood clot first time taking crestor @ 5mlg.per day for 2 weeks) id be open to discuss diet and supps ro help lower it, im all ears, hell ill try dieting to the extreme if thats what it takes

 

[Send0]

I should add that these numbers are with a crashed estradiol (currently 6pg/ml). My HDL would probably be even better if my E2 wasn't screwed right now.

 

[Send0]

Ive had "high" cholesterol for years even on test, ldl never budges below 177, usually a total of 240+, ive been told cholesterol numbers are a farce, especially if everything else is good, my urologist also has a clinic, and ive been going thru him for years, he laughs when i tell him others think my cholesterol is high... I cannot diet to get it down, if anyone has anything besides statins (blood clot first time taking crestor @ 5mlg.per day for 2 weeks) id be open to discuss diet and supps ro help lower it, im all ears, hell ill try dieting to the extreme if thats what it takes

I wouldn't trust a doctor who told me I had nothing to worry about with total cholesterol over 240. I believe you when you say diet is unable to bring it down; some people are unable to recover their cholesterol after its bad for a long time. However for a doctor to say there's no correlation between between HDL/LDL ratio, high LDL and triglycerides, and the risk of stroke and heart attack, is wrong. This is very well documented in very large sample sizes.

Will everyone be effected... of course not, however just because someone may be an exception doesn't mean that others should disregard or downplay their numbers.

I would never tell someone to not worry... because the risk is potentially an early death... where as at least making an attempt to get it under control has nothing but positive benefits, even beyond the heart attack and stroke risk. But I acknowledge this is just my opinion.

In regards to supplements that can help you... bergamot phytosome, cod liver oil, tudca (low dose), coq10 phytosome (sometimes referred to as unisome... kind of a pain to source), NAC, soluble fiber. That's off the top of my head... I'll have to find my journal where I was doing monthly bloods to confirm what additional supplements positively effected my cholesterol numbers.

 

[69nites]

I should add that these numbers are with a crashed estradiol (currently 6pg/ml). My HDL would probably be even better if my E2 wasn't screwed right now.

Yeah, your hdl might not be borderline at risk after you fix your e2.

 

[Send0]

If you guys notice, in one of my initial responses I asked for cortisol numbers if he has them.

Some people are naturally high producers of cortisol. Coincidentally, high cortisol is correlated to elevated cholesterol. So to j2048b's point, sometimes diet isn't the problem... but if you have a doctor obsessed with cholesterol, or telling byoy don't worry about anything, and they aren't including things like cortisol in your blood work then you need to be seriously questioning if they fully understand what they're doing... or if they are just going through the motions... because let's face it, sometimes people get complacent after doing the same job for decades on end (doctors included).

A stressed liver, borderline or otherwise, can also negatively effect cholesterol.

Anyway, I really have beaten a dead horse and I apologize about that. I promise it's out of genuine concern, and not to try to force my way of thinking. I will shut up now unless the OP or anyone else directs a question towards me.

 

[CJ]

What were your lipids/cholesterol numbers like BEFORE ever starting TRT?

Are these just simply normal numbers for you, or has the introduction of exogenous Test caused a major change.

Some people's numbers are just higher. Might not be the Testosterone.

 

[Crom]

I'll get on it today. Just waking up and getting rolling. I'll update with what you asked for soon.

 

[Crom]

They were high. Running sprints I can get my total down to like 170. Always rides a bit high. I was 240 before test. Cardio does lower it some, but I've been trying to gain some weight. In all honesty my diet isn't even that bad.

 

[CJ]

They were high. Running sprints I can get my total down to like 170. Always rides a bit high.

If you tap the REPLY WITH QUOTE tab on a post, you can directly reply to it, so it looks like this post. Then we'll know who you're talking to.

 

[Crom]

Send0 currently 5'11 200 pounds. Not sure what my BF % is. I've been trying to gain weight the past year. I have current progress pictures in my profile. Not sure if you can estimate BF from a picture.

Glucose 88

TSH 2.17
T4 1.5

I didn't see Cortisol on there.

 

[Crom]

If you tap the REPLY WITH QUOTE tab on a post, you can directly reply to it, so it looks like this post. Then we'll know who you're talking to.

Thanks! Will doin the future.

 

[Crom]

Also, what is your current height, weight, and body fat percentage?

Also provide your glucose, cortisol, and thyroid profile numbers if you have them as well.

Send0 currently 5'11 200 pounds. Not sure what my BF % is. I've been trying to gain weight the past year. I have current progress pictures in my profile. Not sure if you can estimate BF from a picture.

Glucose 88

TSH 2.17
T4 1.5

AST 34
ALT 35
I didn't see Cortisol on there.

 

[Crom]

If you guys notice, in one of my initial responses I asked for cortisol numbers if he has them.

Some people are naturally high producers of cortisol. Coincidentally, high cortisol is correlated to elevated cholesterol. So to j2048b's point, sometimes diet isn't the problem... but if you have a doctor obsessed with cholesterol, or telling byoy don't worry about anything, and they aren't including things like cortisol in your blood work then you need to be seriously questioning if they fully understand what they're doing... or if they are just going through the motions... because let's face it, sometimes people get complacent after doing the same job for decades on end (doctors included).

A stressed liver, borderline or otherwise, can also negatively effect cholesterol.

Anyway, I really have beaten a dead horse and I apologize about that. I promise it's out of genuine concern, and not to try to force my way of thinking. I will shut up now unless the OP or anyone else directs a question towards me.

I saw you mentioned liver. I have Gilbert's syndrome. I produce more bilirubin in the liver. My Bilirubin total was 1.9 it has been as high as 2.5.