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  1. #1
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    8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    I started TRT back in February. I had started working out and working with 3J before I got on TRT few months prior. I was probably near 180 lbs. I'd guess close to 20% BF, didn't have it checked at the time. Over time and after starting TRT, I came down to 15% BF and 162 lbs. after a certain point, no matter how much I worked out, I can't go under or over this 162 lbs. I've fluctuated a bit over up to 166 lbs. since I started my blast on August 1st. However, I weighed myself today and am at 162.8 lbs. It's kind of making me depressed and don't know what's going on. I'm working with spongy now, after working with 3J and trying to gain and not being able to I was wondering if it's him (but I did consider it being me as well, because of how much I'm eating) and now after working with Spongy for a month or so, it's clear to me that I am the problem.

    I don't want to list my meal plan because I'm working with spongy but, I eat 6 times a day, with an occasional missed meal. Lately, usually no protein shakes unless it's to replace a meal because of my schedule or work but, it's occasional I'm getting all my protein mostly from food. I eat a big meal every 2 hrs. going to the grocery store every week, it feels like I'm spending more money eating at home now than I used to when I used to eat out. I have no problem turning down the junk food I used to eat, I take my food to work now and eat what's on my meal plan.

    3J had said that I might have an over-active thyroid and so I had it checked and my TSH came out just slightly higher than the cut-off but, the thing is that if your TSH is high that means you're supposed to have trouble losing weight. When your TSH is low is when you're supposed to have problems gaining weight. So, it doesn't make any sense that I'm having problems gaining with an elevated TSH. I'm on vitamin d shots now to see if it will help with TSH. I've been on these shots for a month I guess, not really noticing any difference. Haven't had my blood checked to see where my TSH is.

    So my TRT dose was test cyp 210mg E5D when I first started, then I brought it down to 210mg E7D. Because at E5D my blood test showed i was 1500+ My blast that I started on Aug. 1st was at 420mg E7D (split in two shots Mon/thurs), and this week I'm increasing my dose to 540mg/E7D. The scripted test I get is 210mg/ml so that's the reason the numbers are like that. I'm supposed to start var at the end of this month I think, or next month. My blast was going to be 20 weeks at 420mg/wk but, since I can't gain anything, I wanted to increase it this week. Then in the last 6 weeks I was going to run the var.

    I've been planning my next blast and want to run NPP + tbol. I'm wondering if at the end of this blast I don't gain anything should I just keep going and start the NPP? I know after I'm done with the var I need to give myself a break to recover from the oral so initially I was planning on kickstarting my 2nd blast with tbol but, that was thinking that I was going to make gains after my first blast and give myself a break and come back to the 2nd blast later. However, I'm thinking if I don't make any gains, I don't want to just stop and waste time for nothing (though my health is important so if I have to, I will of course) so I figured if i just keep going and add the NPP then instead of kickstarting with tbol, I'll just run it at the end of the blast like I did the var, so that would give me enough time to recover from the oral. Would that work? Because I'm on TRT so it doesn't really matter how long I'm on? As long as I get my blood test done and everything seems fine? Or what about if I just add the NPP now? Because if I can't gain anything off 420/mg wk, 8 weeks in or if I give myself another 6 weeks on 540 mg/wk and don't see any gains, then continuing to run it seems pointless like I'm just wasting gear. If I add in the NPP then at least I can make use of the test.

    As for training when I was on trt I was doing p90x but, then people told me it was shit and to go to the gym, so I started going to the gym when i started the blast. I've been working with a trainer at the gym that sets me up with the workout plans. Also the last two weeks I stopped doing cardio on Tues/Thurs. Even then I only walk on the treadmill, I don't run or even jog but, I would do about 1.5-2 miles and on varies inclines, elliptical after working out on resistance days. I thought maybe if I stop the cardio then it might help me to gain but, after checking my weight today I'm back down to 162.8.

  2. #2
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    Also am I controlling my bloating that well that it seems like I'm not even gaining water weight? because my starting weight was 162. I drink about 1.5 liter to a gallon of water each night. I'm also taking an AI. Is that possible that I'm controlling my water weight that well? Only time I bloat is at night before I go to sleep, I look in the bathroom mirror and look bloated. I weighed myself last night and I weighed 169 lbs. then I woke up in the morning to 162.8

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    Elite Hollywood72's Avatar
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    I didn't start gaining until about week 8. Are you gaining definition/lean mass? The scale might not be where you want it but you could be burning fat and adding a little muscle.

    I'm sure the experts will have more to add but it might be helpful if you post your workout routine

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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    I started seeing definition on trt but, after a certain point it seems like things have stayed the same overall.

    Well, my workout plan is being updated by the trainer. Basically from August to now I was doing the same exercises Mon/Wed/Fri we just now are working on the plan where we're isolating muscle groups on different days. The last two weeks he's been updating the plan so I'll be doing Mon - Arms, Wed. Chest/Back and Fri. - legs. Because of his schedule it's taken the last two weeks to get my new plan setup. I'm going to go in tomorrow for chest/back day and if I see him schedule Thurs. to setup my arms day, so that way i can have my new plan completely setup.

    I will list all my exercises he has had me doing and what my new plan looks like so far, except for arms day because it's not setup yet.

    Below was "phase 1" I did this for a month. I know the weight is light, I had asked him about doing heavier weight and less reps and he mentioned it's to strengthen tendons. He even used the example of people juicing and getting huge muscles but, having weak tendons. I tried to follow what he said after he told me that but, prior to that I just didn't like lifting so light so I would try to do my max at times or at least to where it gets difficult in the last few reps. However, I'm seeing now people say on here and ology that to get the bodybuilder look you're supposed to do high rep exercises, and so I don't really care about strength that much not as much as I do about looking good, so I guess I should continue with the higher rep sets.

    So this was it, but like I said most of the time I wasn't doing this weight. I should have probably been keeping track of it and writing down exactly what weight I was doing etc.

    Ok, so here was "phase 1" for one month on Mon / Wed / Fri.

    Exercise / Weight / Reps / Sets

    Seated Cable Row (Back) Closed Grip 40 lb. 10 3
    Chest press / Precor machine 10 lb. (each side) 10 3
    Side Dumbell Raise 5 lbs. 10 3
    Rope Cable Push Down (triceps) 40 lbs. 10 3
    Hammer grip dumbell curls 12 lbs. 12 3

    Cardio - Resistance Days (Mon/Wed/Fri)

    Lying side crunches 10 each side
    lying crunches (elbows to knees) 10
    push through crunches 10
    medicine ball side twist 6 or 8 lb. ball 10 each side

    Elliptical - 25 minutes - crossramp 10. resistance 6.

    Cardio - non lift days (tues / thurs)

    treadmill - various inclines (not going to list each and every) - about 40 min.

    Phase 2 - one month: (Mon/Wed/Fri)

    Go to 15 reps on each exercise before increasing weight.

    Squat Curl Press 15 10 3
    Smith Machine Squats 15-25 1
    Cable Lat Extensions (Rope) - 50 10 3
    Smith Machine Squats 15-25 1
    Hoist Bicep Curls 50 10 3
    Hoist Seated Dip 50 10 3
    Smith Machine Squats 15-25 1
    Precor Pec Flys 50 15 3
    Close Grip Lat Pull Down 70 10 3
    Smith Machine Squats 15-25 1 1
    Cable Core Rotation (High to Low) 20 10 2
    Cable Core Rotation (Low to High) 20 10 2

    Phase 3 (isolating muscle groups) - just started this last week and so far only legs and chest/back day has been setup. arms day should be setup by the end of the week hopefully.

    Chest/Back - Wednesday

    Cable Fly Press (on knees) 30 10 4 One hand over, One hand under each rep
    Smith Machine (bench press) 25 15 3
    Incline Dumbell Fly (2nd notch) 15 10 4
    Iso Cable Lat Pull (Knees) 40 15 4
    Seated Cable Row - Straight Bar Grip 50 10 4 alternate overhand/underhand grip
    Cable Lat Extensions (EZ Grip Bar) 40 12 3
    Hyper Extensions n/a 10 3

    Legs - Friday

    Leg Press - I just started this for the first time last Friday and don't remember exactly which weight I did and he didn't write that part down. So, I have to double check. I think I started with 90 lbs. (i recall a 45 lb. weight on each side) and then supposed to do reps of 25/20/15/10 and increase weight each time and I think it's 50 lbs. each time because I recall adding a 25 lb. weight to each side each time but, I could be wrong and maybe I was adding 1 - 25 lbs. weight each time. So, I have to double check.
    Leg Ext. 50 15 3
    Seated Leg Curls 70 15 3
    Body Weight Squats on Smith Mach. n/a 25 4 alternate wide/close stance
    Seated Bike

    I'm sure some of you might be having a good laugh at the weight I'm lifting lol but, then again I am 162 lb. and I've never in my life been athletic so that's the reason I am where I am.

    Originally Posted by Hollywood72 View Post
    I didn't start gaining until about week 8. Are you gaining definition/lean mass? The scale might not be where you want it but you could be burning fat and adding a little muscle.

    I'm sure the experts will have more to add but it might be helpful if you post your workout routine

  5. #5
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    Your not really going to get BIG GAINS on TRT. To me it sounds like your "crusing" and expect some gains (not knocking you at all by the way). The dosages for TRT are usually low. Now 500-750mgs of Test Cyp a week for a good 10wk+ run will yield you gains and move that damn stubborn scale you talk about. Eat your ass off and train hard and it will come. Since there is no use for PCT with TRT, all you have to do is cruise on 250mg's a week then jump it back up again.

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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    Light weight higher reps are fine, however it should be a bit of a challenge for you to get those last few reps. I'd give it more time to kick in. Also I recommend taking some pics every 4 weeks to check your progress. Looks like you have your diet set with Spongy & your hooked up with a trainer & your gear is script so no bunk. Like I said just give it some more time maybe increase the weights a bit to challenge yourself for those last few reps.

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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    Yeah man trt is not meant for body builders. It's more of a Heath thing. It will def help with mood and libido. It will help with muscle building but not as much as a guy on a real cycle. Most guys will drop bf more than anything.

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    Elite PillarofBalance's Avatar
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    You aren't lifting heavy enough. And all that isolation isn't going to do a whole lot to make you grow. You need to keep in touch with spongy for tweaks to keep you growing. And your test dose essentially brings you to a natural level. You're not blasting as far as I read.
    "Overzealous dosing" -Jin

    Rest in Peace Robot Lord. First round of Natty Boh is on me when I make it up there with you brother.

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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    Originally Posted by PillarofBalance View Post
    You aren't lifting heavy enough. And all that isolation isn't going to do a whole lot to make you grow. You need to keep in touch with spongy for tweaks to keep you growing. And your test dose essentially brings you to a natural level. You're not blasting as far as I read.
    I agree, I've made some good gains on trt levels but I am really pushing my weight at the gym...and eating!

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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    I think your dosage is too low. Run the Test at 500 mg EW and see what happens. I bet you grow.

  11. #11
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    Best movement to stimulate growth is the deadlift then squat.

    I don't know where to begin but your an utter mess right now.

    1 Eat more food
    2 Train harder
    3 Train smarter

    If your going to squat then squat and get your ass out of the Smith that making will hurt you more then help with squats.

    If you don't want to free squat the mix it up with hack sleds, front squat machines and leg press and DEADLIFT!

    You need 2 people 1 to teach you diet and 1 to teach you how to train, you will not learn this own your own as technique take learning as well as diet.

    There is no such thing as a hard gainer just people that won't eat and or train proper.
    Knock Em Down and Keep Em Down!

  12. #12
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    Brother, a couple of things jump out to me. Some people (myself included) dont see the effects of test until they are 8+ weeks in. I usally see the benifits in week 7-9. Also, I would get a diffrent trainer. Yes, high reps are good but for most muscles groups after rep 10-12 it should be hard to impossible to continue.
    When I first started reading your post I thought you might be in a recomp and I was going to say you need to stop watching the scales and start watching the mirror. But after reading everything. I think your trainer is not pushing you hard enough. This is very common. They are afraid that if you tear/hurt something you will sue the gym or them personally. I'm sure you had to sign a waiver but the stone cold reality is this is a worthless price of paper and they know it. Also, keep in mind in the state I live in (TX) it's a two day class to become a personal trainer. The only thing he has you doing that I agree with is the incline walking vs. cardio outside of that I don't think he has a clue.
    My suggestion is to get a new trainer, as Dfeaton recommended take bi weekly or monthly pictures and weekly measurements along with following spongy's diet to the letter. I think you said you are in the 400mg + of test range. If so you should gain. If not, get into that range anything less is not going to get you where you want to be. Adding Var or additional compounds will also help.
    I didn't see any mention of your sleeping habits. I am assuming that you are getting at least 8 hours of sleep every night. If you are not; start tonight.

    Good luck brother

  13. #13
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    I see most trainers in my gym only train people for weight loss and to "tone up". Personally I wouldn't worry about any more cardio or high rep training. You want to pack on mass, train like a power lifter and eat like a power lifter. Everybody's different. Some people respond better to high reps low weight, some people respond better to low reps heavy weight, an some people respond better in the middle. Personally I cycle my training like I do a cycle. I go heavy and do 5x5's or 5/3/1 for 6-8 weeks, then go light and do 10-12 reps x 4 for 6 weeks, then do 8x4 for 6 weeks, then start all over. Go heavy but safe and drop that trainer and find a new one. You're not a 60 year old over weight woman and you don't need to train like one. Only thing it could be is training if you're with spongy and you're on pharm grade.

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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    I'm curious as to what your workout history is as well?? I read that you were doing P90X, which maybe good to get into shape but not really a muscle builder routine. Have you worked out in a gym before?? free weights ect....? b/c if you have not going light is the way to go until you get your form down. No sense in trying to lift heavy when your all akward & off balance. Bumping up to 500+ mg/week you should see something. If you do have gym experience then talk it over with your trainer about your goals ect.... If he doesn't listen find another. Another thing about lifting light is you could also increase your intensity.... by slowing the reps & focus on squeezing the muscle or doing super sets ect....

  15. #15
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    Thanks for all the replies. First, to clear this up. I am not on TRT dose right now. I know I rambled a lot so maybe it was missed but, I have been on 420mg test cyp every week since August 1st. That's why I state I'm 8 weeks in my blast. I know enough to know what dose is a blast by now. This week I am increasing my dose to about 500mg week.

    No, I don't have any workout history before this, I've gone to the gym before but, I never stuck with it in the past. I've tried to work with personal trainers in the past but, I ended up starting and then quitting a couple weeks in. Now, I'm determined and have made it a life time change and have been working out regularly 5 days a week and eating healthy for almost a year now.

    I guess about the liability thing with the trainer could be it, he has told me that if the weight feels light I can increase it. That's why I said that I wasn't actually doing the weights listed but, I should have been writing it down so I could tell you guys exactly how much I was doing. I'll start writing it down from now on.

    Only thing is about this trainer is that he's not charging me anything, it's kind of a small neighborhood type of gym and initially when I went to sign up I had asked him about training, I asked if he could set me up with plans and maybe watch me for a week to see my form etc. and then let me work on my own. So, that way it's not costing me so much to work with a trainer. So, then he was like he'll hook me up and that he's on salary there and he just loves doing this stuff and so he's been setting me up on these plans and what-not and when he first sets up the plan he watches my form and shows me how to do the exercises then I do it on my own then we regroup. So, he doesn't charge me for any of this. I have talked to him about my goals and that I want to gain strength and LBM. So, he is supposed to be aware of what my goals are, we sat down and discussed all this before we started. I do know that when I first started working with a trainer a few years ago, I remember after my sessions I would be so sore like I'd have difficulty driving back home or brushing my teeth the next morning but, now I never get sore. Last week when I worked on chest/back I could feel some soreness in my pecs the next day but, nothing major.

    Also, I am in Texas. None of the trainers at the gym look like they are in shape, even mine but, he says it's because of his diet. He seems to have definition but, he's not big. He has told me that he was bodybuilding sometime ago and told me about when he was eating 18 eggs in the morning and what-not. However, honestly his lack of size does bother me he says he's been training for 15 years but, I don't know it just makes me think if he wasn't able to get himself big, how will I?

    Again the issue I'm kind of in is that I cant really say much because he's doing all this without charging me. I guess it's going to be awkward now if I start coming in with another trainer. Either that or I guess I need to switch gyms, I wouldn't really like that type of awkwardness lol

    Also about the reps, I do them slow and focus on the muscle.

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    Elite Jada's Avatar
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    I agree with all the bros above, I think a new trainer would great for u, as long keep good form
    And lift heavy u will see muscle growth , diet part it's already good since u have the guru on board, ur test is official just need to bump up a little more and u should be gtg , once u get the right trainer ur gonna grow.
    Eating ass is anabolic. .. Stick your tongue in and hold it there for 20 seconds! Wise words from
    TRODIZZLE

  17. #17
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    This was my main question that must have got missed in all my rambling. I'm wondering if I don't see any gains soon if I can add in NPP? I'm wondering if adding in a 19-nor will help me gain. However, by your replies it seems that it's my training but, let's say if it wasn't my training and I couldn't gain. Would I be able to do it like this:

    My blast that I started on Aug. 1st was at 420mg E7D (split in two shots Mon/thurs), and this week I'm increasing my dose to 525mg/E7D. The scripted test I get is 210mg/ml so that's the reason the numbers are like that. I'm supposed to start var at the end of this month I think, or next month. My blast was going to be 20 weeks at 420mg/wk but, since I can't gain anything, I wanted to increase it this week. Then in the last 6 weeks I was going to run the var.

    I've been planning my next blast and want to run NPP + tbol. I'm wondering if at the end of this blast I don't gain anything should I just keep going and start the NPP? I know after I'm done with the var I need to give myself a break to recover from the oral so initially I was planning on kickstarting my 2nd blast with tbol but, that was thinking that I was going to make gains after my first blast and give myself a break and come back to the 2nd blast later. However, I'm thinking if I don't make any gains, I don't want to just stop and waste time for nothing (though my health is important so if I have to, I will of course) so I figured if i just keep going and add the NPP then instead of kickstarting with tbol, I'll just run it at the end of the blast like I did the var, so that would give me enough time to recover from the oral. Would that work? Because I'm on TRT so it doesn't really matter how long I'm on? As long as I get my blood test done and everything seems fine? Or what about if I just add the NPP now? Because if I can't gain anything off 420/mg wk, 8 weeks in or if I give myself another 6 weeks on 540 mg/wk and don't see any gains, then continuing to run it seems pointless like I'm just wasting gear. If I add in the NPP then at least I can make use of the test.

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    Elite PillarofBalance's Avatar
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    **** trainers bro. You've got us! If you've got a good bro on SI that you trust, PM him, exchange emails or something. Keep in touch. Have him (or her) guide you.
    "Overzealous dosing" -Jin

    Rest in Peace Robot Lord. First round of Natty Boh is on me when I make it up there with you brother.

  19. #19
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    Ok, I agree about the trainer so I will start looking for another.

    Also, I was taking pics every month for a while but, like I said once I got to a certain point I stopped seeing changes so eventually I stopped taking the pics because I looked the same month after month and was just getting tired of not seeing any improvement month after month. Also, when I was taking the measurements, every week at one point I was getting tired of it for the same reason because they were the same week after week.

  20. #20
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    Re: 8 Weeks in Blast - Can't Gain Anything

    If I could do it myself without a trainer that would be better because I was just kind of thinking what if my next trainer is also useless, then I will just keep going trainer to trainer and wasting time for nothing. Can anybody recommend me a workout routine with the weights I should be lifting? Or maybe I'll send spongy an e-mail I think he said he offers training assitance as well.

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