1 year, 3 cycles, repeat.

don draco

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Great post, SAD. Will be very useful to me in the future :)
 

j2048b

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Man i needed to re read this, i have seen a doc over on a different forum advocating shorter cycles as well, SAD this explains y it is needed and a better in depth discussion of everything is appreciated!
 
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I always used more PT time then anything but I like what I read there was some good info here
 

Get Some

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Wanted to thank SAD for giving me a wink of credit on this ;) he has and always will be a good brother.

My original idea was much more complex and included specific dates and times for everything, including which particular cycles should be run at certain points in the year and what the overall goal of each cycle was. SAD took that and broke it down to such a simplistic level that everyone should be able to understand it! Kudos to him for that.

There are 2 ways to successfully frontload. The way SAD mentioned is the better way, but if you don't want to pin 3cc in one shot just double the dose of your first 2 pins in the first week. Also, there is no need to frontload with ace, prop, di-prop, etc. I don't even frontload with phenyl prop, Isocap, or similar, but you certainly can.

The key to the 6 week cycle is the mentality. I refer to this cycle as the "ONSLAUGHT" cycle be side of what I would incorporate. Orals all 6 weeks, tren, test, mast, T3, clen, var, winny, proviron, etc. because its short you have to throw the house at it and give it all you've got. For all intensive purposes I originally planned this cycle as a mini contest prep type cycle designed to cut up the gains made in the first 2. The idea was gain 25 lbs first cycle, 10 lbs 2nd cycle and cut up 3rd cycle (no weight gain or slight weight loss). The goal for the year was to be lean by summer and have a net gain of 20-25 lbs from the previous year.

SAD's shortest cycle is 8 weeks, which is fine. He put a lot if thought into this and I'm glad he was able to share it with you guys! We are both MENSA members and had some pretty fun scientific chemical discussions back in the day haha!

My personal opinion on this is by the time you are done with this first year (following the 10,9,8 routine) you will need to take 4-6 months off with the proper hcg and hmg therapy. Theoretically you could keep going but probably 1% or less of people would make it through the second year before saying "fuck it" and doing the TRT thing. That's not bad either, it's so much easier than recovering. I personally took 2 years off from everything to "recharge." I got fat and lazy until I recently lost the weight natty and have now just started a recomp cycle this week. From here who knows where I'll go but it's a start. My best advice to any of you is always have a plan. You should always have a plan in place for the next cycle before the current one starts. You can always amend the forthcoming plan but if you have nothing in place it is much easier to succumb to temptation and make a poor decision regarding what is best for your progress. Write shit down!!! Having a plan in your head is like being in a shark cage in your neighborhood pool. Theoretically the cage is supposed to go in water, but people are going to be looking at you like, "wtf is that asshole doing?" ... Don't be the asshole!!!
 
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Im alittle to this as well. My question is this if your running a 10 week cycle and 4 week pct shouldn't you take more time off then just 6 weeks?
 
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There are 2 ways to successfully frontload. The way SAD mentioned is the better way, but if you don't want to pin 3cc in one shot just double the dose of your first 2 pins in the first week. Also, there is no need to frontload with ace, prop, di-prop, etc. I don't even frontload with phenyl prop, Isocap, or similar, but you certainly can.

If I'm understanding what your saying here right I could frontload the 1200mgs Test E day one and if I wanted add in 100mgs of Test P EoD for the first couple weeks till the Test E stabilizes? Or are you saying that with the Test E frontload there is no need to kickstart the cycle with a faster acting injectable test.
 

DF

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If I'm understanding what your saying here right I could frontload the 1200mgs Test E day one and if I wanted add in 100mgs of Test P EoD for the first couple weeks till the Test E stabilizes? Or are you saying that with the Test E frontload there is no need to kickstart the cycle with a faster acting injectable test.

I believe in all 3 of his cycles he is suggesting doing a front load not kick stating with faster esters.
 

#TheMatrix

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....followed this early this year. I believe if youre gona cycle. cycle right. this is great reference
no hijack. but now im on Gest Somes sugestion of 9 week cycles
 
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I believe in all 3 of his cycles he is suggesting doing a front load not kick stating with faster esters.
I understand what SAD is recommending but when I read Get Some's post I was confused if he was saying you could do a Kickstart with a Frontload.

Example
Week 1-2 Test P 100mg EoD
Week 1-10 Test E 600mgs (split into 2x300mgs injections) with a day one 1200mg Frontload

I've been reading up on things in other posts like the "First Cycle: All You Need to Know" sticky and wondering about combining some of the recommendations.
So based on what I read there I was looking at ending a cycle like such also.

Week 11-13 100mg Test P EoD last injection of Test P on Wednesday of week 13)

Week 14-17 PCT

I just look at this as bringing blood levels up to optimal levels as quickly as possible and benefiting from everything up until 3 days before your PCT starts.
 
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hulksmash

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I dont know why anyone comes off...

Youre gonna end up on TRT anyway doing cycles for years and years
 

SuperBane

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I dont know why anyone comes off...

Youre gonna end up on TRT anyway doing cycles for years and years

Cmon now you can't lead the kids astray.
There is no reason to stay on if you aren't going pro.

at least give a detailed reasoning behind your beliefs hulk.
 

f.r.a.n.k.

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What's the point in running an AI during the pct time?
I was always taught to drop the AI the day before PCT and pct be a Clomid/nolva combo.
 

TheLupinator

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What's the point in running an AI during the pct time?
I was always taught to drop the AI the day before PCT and pct be a Clomid/nolva combo.

During pct your test production is starting back up. As your test rises some of it will aromatize, AI is used to keep that from happening thus increasing your test. AIs by themselves increase testosterone.
 

hulksmash

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Cmon now you can't lead the kids astray.
There is no reason to stay on if you aren't going pro.

at least give a detailed reasoning behind your beliefs hulk.

True, I don't condone anyone staying on...especially if it's not within your goals

Reason for me staying on=my size+bf goal I want requires staying on and taking above average doses

AKA what the majority shouldn't do :D
 

f.r.a.n.k.

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During pct your test production is starting back up. As your test rises some of it will aromatize, AI is used to keep that from happening thus increasing your test. AIs by themselves increase testosterone.

Ahhh I see I see...doesn't Nolva and Clomid both have AI properties? Though Nolva does.t inhibit the conversion into estrogen, just the formation of breast tissue by binding to the receptors responsible...
 

f.r.a.n.k.

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Also, there is such thing as too little estrogen...
Which I guess boils down to "everyone's different"
 

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