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  1. #1
    Senior Member traviswyliedime's Avatar
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    Short esters before long esters??

    Alright homies I've heard about people doing test prop before the cyp or enanthate kicking. But some friends of mine were talking about doing tren a before tren e, mast p before mast e, and npp before deca. Has anyone else ever done this or heard of people doing it? I didn't really get the point.
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    Elite PFM's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Try everything once, see what you like. IME I've concluded the slow climb of long ester compounds suits me best. I've been pretty big, so I blow up fast. I don't want to be too obvious, I'd rather take 5-6 weeks to gain 20 pounds.
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  3. #3
    Elite HDH's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    It's pretty simple. You start them at the same time so the short esters get your levels up faster. Similar to kickstarting with an oral to get the added "boost" at the beginning of the cycle only you use the same hormone as an injectable.

    HDH

  4. #4
    Senior Member Times Roman's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Originally Posted by traviswyliedime View Post
    Alright homies I've heard about people doing test prop before the cyp or enanthate kicking. But some friends of mine were talking about doing tren a before tren e, mast p before mast e, and npp before deca. Has anyone else ever done this or heard of people doing it? I didn't really get the point.
    You, my friend, have just discovered the concept of "Front Loading"

    Good luck, and enjoy!

    ---Roman

  5. #5
    Elite DF's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    I thought that this was considered a kick start with oil & not a front load. From what I understand a front load is jacking up the initial injects with the same compound to get levels up faster. A kick start is using a shorter ester oil from the start along with the long ester to get levels up faster.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Times Roman's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Originally Posted by Dfeaton View Post
    I thought that this was considered a kick start with oil & not a front load. From what I understand a front load is jacking up the initial injects with the same compound to get levels up faster. A kick start is using a shorter ester oil from the start along with the long ester to get levels up faster.
    Kickstarts and frontloads are more or less synanomyous. The two terms describe the same thing.

    However, it is more common to hear others describing a kick start as something they do, with say dbol/drol, and a front load is the same chemical, and it may or may not be with a short esther. You can also front load with a long esther by simply taking the last 2 to 4 weeks dose of your cycle and sticking them on the first 2 to 4 weeks of your cycle.

    These terms are fairly loose. But with most people I communicate with, this is what we generally accept these terms to mean.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Four1Thr33's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Take both esters to desired MG and it seems like both front loading and kick starting
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Four1Thr33's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Damn I should have posted that before... My girl came into room and I left phone open and didn't reply untill now and My post is now useless haha
    Wolves don't loose sleepover opinions of sheep

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    Elite LeanHerm's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Imo the best way is day you're taking 400 of tren a week. Take 200 of tren a and 200 of tren e until you want to run just straight tren e. some guys will run their 400 of e and 200 of a. Problem with this is you will have the highest levels the first four weeks and drop from there.

  10. #10
    Senior Member SAD's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Here's my take on it.

    With kickstarting, i.e. using another compound or ester in order to "feel" it sooner, you still aren't getting to peak levels right off the bat.

    With frontloading, i.e. doubling or tripling the first dose, you will be at peak levels within the first week.

    Either way, you will not see major gains until weeks 4/5-whatever, but that's better than not seeing major gains until weeks 6/7-whatever. My issues with kickstarting with a shorter ester are that it is very hard to get your levels consistent, not knowing when to taper off the shorter ester, having to buy more vials (more expensive), and the fact that even with a prop you still aren't hitting peak concentration for 10 or so days.

    Just seems simpler to frontload.
    Conquer yourself through wise experimentation.

  11. #11
    Senior Member traviswyliedime's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    All of this is so interesting brothers!! Thank you all for sharing with me! I was just thinking about my next cycle and using masteron p as a kickstart to the masteron e but since there are problems with keeping a constant concentration in the blood I'm kind of steering away from the mast p first.
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Originally Posted by SAD View Post
    Here's my take on it.

    With kickstarting, i.e. using another compound or ester in order to "feel" it sooner, you still aren't getting to peak levels right off the bat.

    With frontloading, i.e. doubling or tripling the first dose, you will be at peak levels within the first week.

    Either way, you will not see major gains until weeks 4/5-whatever, but that's better than not seeing major gains until weeks 6/7-whatever. My issues with kickstarting with a shorter ester are that it is very hard to get your levels consistent, not knowing when to taper off the shorter ester, having to buy more vials (more expensive), and the fact that even with a prop you still aren't hitting peak concentration for 10 or so days.

    Just seems simpler to frontload.
    I agree with with the kickstarting and frontloading definitions.

    It's actually pretty simple to not have high levels while kickstarting with a short ester.

    Take the amount of Enan injected each week and divide it by the number of desired weeks for the kickstart. Then take that number and subtract it from the last weeks dose each week. Like a taper.

    Let's use a 4 week Prop kick for Enan @ 800mg a week as an example. Of course you could go 3 weeks or 5 weeks, it's up to each individual. This example just made the math easy.

    Week #1- Prop @ 800mg

    Week #2- @ 600mg

    Week #3- @ 400mg

    Week #4- @ 200mg

    The injection schedule is up to the individual as well. It doesn't have to be just like this, but any taper similar to this would insure levels don't get out of control by the end of the kickstart.

    Using Prop will also have strength up and make yer ol' lady happier faster

    HDH

  13. #13
    Senior Member IWannaGetBig's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Originally Posted by Times Roman View Post
    You can also front load with a long esther by simply taking the last 2 to 4 weeks dose of your cycle and sticking them on the first 2 to 4 weeks of your cycle.
    Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying because I'm not clear on what you're recommending for the end of the cycle. For an example, if you wanted to run a 12 week cycle and someone wants to frontload/kickstart you're saying that they should use the dose that was intended for weeks 9 - 12 and add it to 1-4? So is your cycle now an 8 week cycle? or did you mean for the cycle to switch to a prop for weeks 9-12?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Times Roman's Avatar
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    Re: Short esters before long esters??

    Originally Posted by SAD View Post
    Here's my take on it.

    With kickstarting, i.e. using another compound or ester in order to "feel" it sooner, you still aren't getting to peak levels right off the bat.

    With frontloading, i.e. doubling or tripling the first dose, you will be at peak levels within the first week.

    Either way, you will not see major gains until weeks 4/5-whatever, but that's better than not seeing major gains until weeks 6/7-whatever. My issues with kickstarting with a shorter ester are that it is very hard to get your levels consistent, not knowing when to taper off the shorter ester, having to buy more vials (more expensive), and the fact that even with a prop you still aren't hitting peak concentration for 10 or so days.

    Just seems simpler to frontload.

    This is where personal experience comes in to play. and another reason to go with a single test compound until you know exactly what it does and what to expect.

    for instance, I know that round the middle of the 4th week, when taking test e/c, for me, is when to expect to see the beginnings of strength gains. So if I'm going to front load with prop, I will pin through the end of the third week. If I do it correctly, and I usually do, then the drop off of the prop is picked up by the e/c, and it is almost seemless. the goal is not to have the same blood serum levels, as for sure there will be more the first three weeks. the idea is a seemless and gradual increase in strength in the gym.

    Everyone is a little different, and needs to figure out how to tweek this to suit them.

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