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  1. #1
    Member G-Man's Avatar
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    Frontloading a cycle

    Is frontloading a test cyp/e cycle effective? Like doing 1000mg first injection and then 500mg/week afterwards. Does it allow the test to kick in any faster or is it just a waste?

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    Elite DF's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    I'd rather do a kick start with an oral or short ester oil like test p.

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    Elite Capt'n Ron's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    In my breif experience frontloading is effective and makes good sense analytically. A good kickstart with either and oral or fast acting injectable like test p or TNE will also bring good results. One final thing to consider is transitioning to a short or no ester compound at the end of a cycle to decrease the wait time before starting PCT. Rather than post a link I am going to copy and paste a post I came across that helped me grasp the concept.

    I wanted to post some information on frontloading as it is something which is seen as an advanced technique but rather I would see that it is very easy and calling it advanced means that you just need to learn more. A lot of the information gathered was exposed to me by Bill Roberts. The purpose of frontloading is to get to the dose you want to metabolize quicker. Waiting 3-5 weeks for the half-lives to build is tedious and unnecessary. PCT with dosages as 40/40/20/20 is not needed. If you want to metabolize 40 mg/day on week one then adjust the amounts so you do. Manipulate the dosage according to the half-life so you metabolize the amount you desire. This is important with Clomid as it is typically used just for two weeks and by that time it will just have reached the level you want.


    The following chart measures how much of Testosterone Enthantate you metabolize in Week 1 of a 500mg/week cycle. This was taken from a steroid calculator and the numbers include a 5% waste factor and the numbers may be off by a little but the big picture is the focus.

    Day 1: Inject 250 mg of Testosterone Enthantate Metabolize 26 mg
    Day 2: Metabolize 23 mg
    Day 3: Metabolize 21 mg
    Day 4: Inject 250 mg of Test Enthantate Metabolize 44 mg
    Day 5: Metabolize 39 mg
    Day 6: Metabolize 35mg
    Day 7: Metabolize 31 mg

    For Week 1 you metabolized only 219 mg of Test E when your goal is 500.

    The following is the amount metabolize week 1 when frontloading:
    Day 1: Inject 600mgs Test Enthantate Metabolize 62 mg
    Day 2: Metabolize 55 mg
    Day 3: Metabolize 49 mg
    Day 4: Inject 250 mgs Test Enthantate Metabolize 70 mg
    Day 5: Metabolize 62 mg
    Day 6: Metabolize 55 mg
    Day 7: Metabolize 49 mg

    For Week 1 when frontloading you will metabolize 402 mg of Test E when your goal is 500. Much better in my opinion.

    The Formula

    To establish the amount you should inject/ingest on the first day of frontloading you can use a the following formula to calculate the value. IT IS ONLY THE FIRST DAY YOU INJECT THIS AMOUNT. After that you follow your regular injection schedule.

    Weekly amount/7xHalf-life in days + regular inject amount = Frontload

    For measuring SERMs/AIs this formula is easier to use

    Daily amount x half-life + regular dose = Frontload

    Example, I am going to do 12 weeks of 500mgs Test E/week, planning on injecting 250 mg Monday and Thursday. How much should I frontload? Using the formula I plug in my values.

    500/7 x 5 + 250 = Frontload

    71 x 5 + 250 = Frontload

    357 + 250 = Frontload

    607 = Frontload

    Now to get the help get the exact amount of 607 I recommend diluting 1 ml of 250mg/ml Test by adding 7 ml cottonseed oil so you now have a solution which is 31mg/ml and grab your insulin needle and measure 23units(0,23ml) add this volume to your 600 mg of test and you now have your dose measured(607mg). Just kidding you can just round to 600 or whatever number is easier for you.

    To assist in your usage of the formula I will include some half-lives. Note, there is a slight variation of half-lives depending on the source. The fact that it is measured in days and not hours grants a +-12 hour variation which isn't too accurate either.

    Testosterone Enthantate: 5 days
    Testosterone Cypionate: 5 days(The difference between Test E and Test C is rather trivial and this is where the aforementioned -+12hour difference comes into play).
    Decanoate(Deca): 6 days (I thought it was a little higher but most medical literature state 6 days)
    Boldenone Undecylenate: 14 days

    Tamoxifen Citrate(Nolvadex): 5 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
    Clomiphene citrate(Clomid): 5 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
    Anastrozole (Arimidex): 2 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
    Letrozole (Letro, Femara): 2 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
    hCG: 33hours to 48 hours depending on intramuscular or subcutaneous injection

    The latter 3 might not need to be frontloaded but I felt the need to post them anyway.

    Also I wanted to incorporate a cheat sheet for the most common ones and those who don't want to read through all this wall of text and learn how to do it. Going to list the Compound and Weekly dosage you wish to do and then the amount you should inject assuming an equal amount is injected twice a week.

    Test E/C: 500 mg/week 607 mg on the first day only.
    Test E/C: 600 mg/week 678 mg on the first day only.
    Test E/C: 750 mg/week 910 mg on the first day only.
    Test E/C: 1000 mg/week 1214 mg on the first day only.

    Boldenone(Equipoise):400mgs/week 885 mg on the first day only
    Boldenone(Equipoise):500mgs/week 1107 mg on the first day only
    Boldenone(Equipoise):600mgs/week 1328 mg on the first day only
    Boldenone(Equipoise):750mgs/week 1660 mg on the first day only

    Tamoxifen Citrate(Nolvadex): 20 mg/day 120 mg on the first day only You ingest, DO NOT INJECT

    Clomiphene citrate(Clomid): 50 mg/day 300 mg on the first day only You ingest, DO NOT INJECT


    If it is ok to post a link to an outside forum let me know.

  4. #4
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    When I cycled, I would regularly use front loading and it worked very well for me.

    Much of what is posted above is similar to the mathematical justification for front loading that I have previously posted elsewhere.

    There are a couple of considerations that I'll also include now.

    First, I never ran cycles for more than 12 weeks - hence a front load always made good sense for me in terms of maximizing my on-cycle time. Second, it helped me maintain a consistent blood level from start to the finish of the cycle.

  5. #5
    Senior Member cougar's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    I've done my front loading by ,say my goal is 500 wk/ Test and 400 wk/Deca. I will pin 1000 Test and 800 Deca throught out the first week. Then go to the 500/t,400/ deca the second week as planned thru out. Thats just my way, I can't take orals.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Times Roman's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Another interesting tactic is to back load. Some do this inadvertantly when switching to a long esther to a short esther towards the end of their cycle to reduce the amount of time before they can pct. But by switching from long to short at the end, you are also increasing blood serum levels, which is the definition of a back load. The benefit of a back load is higher blood serum level around the time receptor sites are becoming desensitized, so it helps keep gains going right til the end.

  7. #7
    Senior Member DADAWG's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    im not crazy about front loading , i would rather see you add the extra gear into extending the cycle. orals at the front are great to get the cycle going strong and theres nothing wrong with throwing in 2-3 weeks of orals at the end as the long ester gear winds down BUT IMO its just to maximize the cycle and NOT because of receptors being desensitized , the stuff ive read shhows that receptors regenerate constantly. a

    and IMO the whole receptor desensitizing theory is usually explained by the fact that the guy running the cycle did not increase calories during the cycle . he starts the cycle at 200 pounds and eating 3000 calories [ just a bullshit example ] hes 10 weeks into the cycle and now hes 217 pounds and his gains are slowing down. well the 3000 calories he was eating at 200 pounds was enough to make gains but at 217 pounds the 3000 is just a maintainence diet.

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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    I've yet to see any clinically compelling evidence to support androgen receptor desensitization as is often described by those AAS users who have hit "plateaus" during their respective cycles.

    As was stated, and from what I've seen, there always seems to be a high correlation between one's inability to sustain growth and inadequate caloric intake.

  9. #9
    Member G-Man's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Wow lots of great info in here! I think I will try frontloading when I start my cycle after seeing all this. DADAWG and cashout you brought up another area I had questions on which is great. The issue with gains slowing down later in the cycle due to calories makes sense.

  10. #10
    Senior Member DADAWG's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Originally Posted by Cashout View Post
    I've yet to see any clinically compelling evidence to support androgen receptor desensitization as is often described by those AAS users who have hit "plateaus" during their respective cycles.

    As was stated, and from what I've seen, there always seems to be a high correlation between one's inability to sustain growth and inadequate caloric intake.
    i saw a study once but dont have it save that said the receptors were constantly being regenerated by the body , if its a new receptor it wouldnt be desensitized even if that was possible.

    people later in a cycle lose some of their drive , they get tired of eating JUST RIGHT , they get tired of drinking water while their buddies drink cold beer and they get tired of going to bed early instead of running with their crowd. when you combine that with failing to adjust their diet as their gains progress its the answer 99% of the time when gains stop at the end of a cycle. theres also a small percentage of advanced cyclers who have reached their quote unquote genetic limit by the end of their cycle and no matter what you do gains will slow down at that point.

  11. #11
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    I've read all of the published research. I was trying to be tactful and not call it a "myth" for the sake of others.

    Originally Posted by DADAWG View Post
    i saw a study once but dont have it save that said the receptors were constantly being regenerated by the body , if its a new receptor it wouldnt be desensitized even if that was possible.

    people later in a cycle lose some of their drive , they get tired of eating JUST RIGHT , they get tired of drinking water while their buddies drink cold beer and they get tired of going to bed early instead of running with their crowd. when you combine that with failing to adjust their diet as their gains progress its the answer 99% of the time when gains stop at the end of a cycle. theres also a small percentage of advanced cyclers who have reached their quote unquote genetic limit by the end of their cycle and no matter what you do gains will slow down at that point.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Times Roman's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Originally Posted by Cashout View Post
    I've yet to see any clinically compelling evidence to support androgen receptor desensitization as is often described by those AAS users who have hit "plateaus" during their respective cycles.

    As was stated, and from what I've seen, there always seems to be a high correlation between one's inability to sustain growth and inadequate caloric intake.
    Originally Posted by DADAWG View Post
    im not crazy about front loading , i would rather see you add the extra gear into extending the cycle. orals at the front are great to get the cycle going strong and theres nothing wrong with throwing in 2-3 weeks of orals at the end as the long ester gear winds down BUT IMO its just to maximize the cycle and NOT because of receptors being desensitized , the stuff ive read shhows that receptors regenerate constantly. a

    and IMO the whole receptor desensitizing theory is usually explained by the fact that the guy running the cycle did not increase calories during the cycle . he starts the cycle at 200 pounds and eating 3000 calories [ just a bullshit example ] hes 10 weeks into the cycle and now hes 217 pounds and his gains are slowing down. well the 3000 calories he was eating at 200 pounds was enough to make gains but at 217 pounds the 3000 is just a maintainence diet.
    me neither. I'm not sure how I came to believe this, so I decided to check it out. I spent 20 minutes searching, and came up empty handed. Plenty of articles/posts suggesting that my now previous position was based on myth instead of science.

    Which is why we post in these threads. To learn.

    Thanks for clearing that up for me!

  13. #13
    Senior Member SAD's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    CaptRon, where did that quote come from? I briefly looked but couldn't find a cite. The guy has some very conservative views as to how to frontload, when compared with my personal experience with frontloading cycles. Also, I would love to know where he got his information concerning the half life of the decanoate ester.

    I love a proper frontload specifically for the purpose of making a shorter (and therefore easier to recover from) cycle more effective. I'm a huge proponent of shorter cycles for those of you who cycle, and frontloading is, IMO, necessary to make the most of the cycle.

    If you check out my thread on running three cycles in one year, you'll see what I recommend for frontloading based on my experiences. Results may not be typical. To each his own.
    Conquer yourself through wise experimentation.

  14. #14
    Senior Member cougar's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    This is all Great info, Thats why I lov SI .. Keep it coming..

  15. #15
    Member G-Man's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Originally Posted by SAD View Post
    If you check out my thread on running three cycles in one year, you'll see what I recommend for frontloading based on my experiences. Results may not be typical. To each his own.
    Thanks for the heads up, will definitely check it out.


    Question for anyone to answer: What kind of time frame would you start to expect test cyp/e to kick in if you frontload the first shot? 1 Week sooner?

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    Elite SuperBane's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Sad I found your thread interesting but it is against those that advocate longer cycles to let the body become used to carrying the weight. I need to learn more about backloading I'd like to come off straight away into pct.

    Anyone who has ran an oral such as Dbol for a kickstart as well as simply front loaded to get the cycle started I'd like to hear about your experiences with both which do you feel was more beneficial?

    This is a great thread!
    Bunch of slack-jawed fagg0ts around here. This stuff will make you a god damned sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me.

  17. #17
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Originally Posted by Dfeaton View Post
    I'd rather do a kick start with an oral or short ester oil like test p.

    This fellas ^^^^ I run a short ester and taper down while I taper up a long ester... or use dbol or another oral to kickstart.


    Much Respect,
    Vette
    Hung like Einstein and Smart as a Mule.

  18. #18
    Elite Capt'n Ron's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Originally Posted by SAD View Post
    CaptRon, where did that quote come from? I briefly looked but couldn't find a cite. The guy has some very conservative views as to how to frontload, when compared with my personal experience with frontloading cycles. Also, I would love to know where he got his information concerning the half life of the decanoate ester.
    That Copy/ Paste job came from a forum I found while trying to research different PCT protocols. Dr. Scally posts there from time to time. The banner calls the site MesoRx. The original poster goes by the handle Sworder. The rest of the thread kind of gets in the weeds and discusses Mathematical formulas for more accurately determining half life and doses. PM me if you want a link.

    I started my current TestE / MastE cycle with a frontload using that formula and a Dbol kick.

  19. #19
    Elite biggerben692000's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Some guys were giving me shit when I suggested backloading with d-bol. It gives you an pretty good idea when to start hcg, Its mre accurate thatn taking hcg r clomid 2 weeks after yur last shot of test E.
    No PCT for me s i've lost interest in this thread. Too much over thinking going on in the entire frum. Yur body is different, Get some tips but do your own thing,
    I've grown up some.

  20. #20
    Senior Member SAD's Avatar
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    Re: Frontloading a cycle

    Originally Posted by Superman View Post
    Sad I found your thread interesting but it is against those that advocate longer cycles to let the body become used to carrying the weight. I need to learn more about backloading I'd like to come off straight away into pct.
    Well, good. I'm relieved that my stance is blatantly against those who feel longer cycles are best. Think about it like this, if you believe that long cycles are better because they give your body the chance to "get used to" your new weight, then what about the extended time off and your body getting used to your off cycle LOSS of weight? That is, of course, dependent on you caring about your HPTA and fully recovering between cycles. IF you care about healthy and effective cycling for long term progression, it is my firm belief that shorter cycles (6-11 weeks), are the superior way to achieve those ends.
    Conquer yourself through wise experimentation.

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