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Thread: Torem on cycle

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    Torem on cycle

    Was reading about guys that had ran torem (SERM) like nolva but more concentrated on the chest area while on cycle at a low dose alongside there AI (aromasin) for gyno sensitive people. What is your alls take on this ?

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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Originally Posted by staxs View Post
    Was reading about guys that had ran torem (SERM) like nolva but more concentrated on the chest area while on cycle at a low dose alongside there AI (aromasin) for gyno sensitive people. What is your alls take on this ?
    I use clomid on cycle (these are similar drugs) but for different reasons. Keep researching this and let me know what you come up with. Interesting question.

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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Toremifene is a poor choice for any lifter IMO. Because it needs to be tightly controlled. It has a very long half life, 5 days, which allows build up in a persons body. It causes QT prolongation in dose and concentration related manner, which can lead to v-tac, especially if your heart rate gets elevated too much.
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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Originally Posted by Christosterone View Post
    Toremifene is a poor choice for any lifter IMO. Because it needs to be tightly controlled. It has a very long half life, 5 days, which allows build up in a persons body. It causes QT prolongation in dose and concentration related manner, which can lead to v-tac, especially if your heart rate gets elevated too much.
    Thanks Chris! Doesn't sound like its a good idea

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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Originally Posted by PillarofBalance View Post
    I use clomid on cycle (these are similar drugs) but for different reasons. Keep researching this and let me know what you come up with. Interesting question.
    What mg do you run clomid on cycle ? I know guys that also run clomid on cycle if there running a long cycle.

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    Torem on cycle

    Also interested in this as clomid is a plenty at my place! Also wonder about proviron, and if its ok to take along with clomid as both can raise ur test levels correct? And lower e2 with proviron?
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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Originally Posted by Christosterone View Post
    Toremifene is a poor choice for any lifter IMO. Because it needs to be tightly controlled. It has a very long half life, 5 days, which allows build up in a persons body. It causes QT prolongation in dose and concentration related manner, which can lead to v-tac, especially if your heart rate gets elevated too much.
    I'm not gonna pretend like I know what you said here... Prease exprain dis.

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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Originally Posted by PillarofBalance View Post
    I'm not gonna pretend like I know what you said here... Prease exprain dis.
    QT prolongation is like saying the left and right ventricle of the heart are out of sync.

    V-tac (ventricular tachycardia ) is elevated heart rhythm

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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Isn't hypertrophy of the left ventricle common in people doing heavy resistance training and/or GH, Slin and Gear anyway?

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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Ok, your heart beat on an ECG has for this lecture three intervals a p wave , qrs, and t wave, the qrs is the depolarization of the left ventricle, regular heart beat goes p,qrs,t. A prolonged q-t segment means the time between beginning of the q wave to end of t wave is taking roughly over 420 milliseconds. But remember, your heart works in a rhythmic pattern. Atria contract, then the ventricles, and prolonging the ventricular contraction can throw whole hear out of sync leading to what we call torsades de pointes which is V tac (tachycardia) and a heart attack. I was saying that torem extends the Q-T interval on a concentration based method and due to its long half life, can easily and quickly build up to dangerous levels. I can go into further detail if anyone would like, but basically, too much of torem can throw heart out of sync, leading to cardiac arrest.
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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Hypertrophy is common in weight lifters, while dilation is common in distance runners
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    Re: Torem on cycle

    What causes the qt prolongation? The serm action on the heart itself or a bi product somewhere down the line?

    Is it strictly related to torem or other serms as well?

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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Originally Posted by ripped_one View Post
    What causes the qt prolongation? The serm action on the heart itself or a bi product somewhere down the line?

    Is it strictly related to torem or other serms as well?
    This is exactly what I'd like to know. No offense Christosterone, but I could say I painted the Mona Lisa and give a detailed explanation of how paint dries, but it doesn't mean it's true. I need studies. Proof. Something legitimate.

    Please understand I'm not saying you're bullshitting, I'm just in need of more than your word.
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    Re: Torem on cycle

    How do I load up pics from iPad, what site do I use? Ripped, it isn't all serms, I heard about Torem in a monthly cancer lecture I go to and looked it up on Epocrates (free iPhone app) and also a research app I pay for subscription for. Epocrates has a black box warning discussing the qt syndrome. By no means is it all of them, I was looking up the exact mechanism for you but on first glance haven't found EXACTLY how it works, I will say nolva or clomid both do not cause it. I will point put the importance of Epocrates for anyone trying medicine they hear about on boards. I will continue to find the exact mechanism for you, but it mentions it is a dose and concentration related manner. And when I find put how to post pics, ill post screen shots of the apps. You could also just as easy look it up at the ncbi.nlm.nih.gov website and it will tell you about the prolonged qt risk. I will finally point out, that in a lot of side effects of drugs, the mechanism in which it occurs is not fully known. For a lot of the drugs that act on the brain and cognition, the mechanism at which they even work or cause change is unknown, research proves it works, or it works from trial and error. I will try to find exact reason, and provide pics of my sources but I believe even googling toremifene side effects will pop up the prolonged QT. I'll report more when I find it.
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    Re: Torem on cycle

    Oh and stumbled across this when looking, thought it was rather pertinent to everyone, talking about lipid profiles and what affects what, might start a thread so everyone sees it:

    Tamoxifen and toremifene have been shown to have favorable effects on lipid profiles, decreasing total and LDL cholesterol (both), and increasing HDL (toremifiene) [107, 108]. These effects may be predicted to be due to estrogenic effects of tamoxifen or toremifene, leading to the idea that aromatase inhibitors may have adverse effects on lipid profiles. Anastrozole and letrozole have been suggested to lead to mild increases in serum cholesterol; whereas, examestane appears to have cholesterol effects similar to tamoxifen and also may lower triglycerides, which may be due to its steroidal structure [109, 110]. There has been debate regarding risk of cardiovascular events in patients receiving aromatase therapy [111]. In the BIG 1-98 study, there was an excess of more severe adverse cardiac events, including ischemic heart disease and heart failure, in the letrozole-treated group compared with the tamoxifen group; however, the rates of hypertension and stroke were not significantly different, and the risk of thromboembolism was higher in the tamoxifen-treated group [112, 113]. Additional meta-analyses that included multiple aromatase inhibitors have also suggested a small, but significant increase in cardiovascular events on these drugs; however, whether these are a class effect or more attributable to one specific drug over another remains to be determined in additional trials [111, 114]
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