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  1. #1
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    should i stay away from orals completely?

    I had a blood test done while on a 500mg/wk test blast . My liver values AST was 67 and ALT 72. I had another blood test done after I added 50 mg/day var. My liver values went to AST 85 and ALT 83.

    I've pretty much already had my 2nd blast planned, I want to do a bulker so test + NPP + dbol. I was going to start planning all the details, exact dosages etc. so now I'm starting to wonder after looking at my liver values, just on test only and also after being on var that it's so high that maybe I should stay away from dbol due to how toxic it is? It sucks that I may not ever be able to try dbol. I'm only 170 lbs. I could use a good bulking cycle lol however, my gains won't do me any good if i'm not alive lol so i have to think about my health. i guess i have some underlying issue probably from drinking so much back in the day. I also take all kinds of liver support, most of my supplements have milk thistle, nac, i take liv 52, UDCA, liver juice, started dandelion root recently. so I don't know if anything is actually helping or not.

    i read somewhere that the AST levels that are really dangerous are when it goes above 120. Though I guess I wasn't too far off and can only imagine what dbol might do to me.

    is it possible i could try to start off at a light dose of dbol, and run it for a week get a blood test, everything ok then increase it next week, then up again, like that? If it's in the 80's like it is now at the end of this blast, then I guess if it goes back in this range and comes back down would be fine but, if it goes into the 100's I will probably start freaking out.. or does it matter if it even gets in the 100's but, drop down after i'm done with the dbol? because you're only supposed to run it for about 4 weeks right?

  2. #2
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    How were your lipids after the var? its better to be concerned about liver or lipids instead of both..

  3. #3
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    ah, good question. haven't ran a lipids test yet, i'm still on var but, tomorrows my last day. was waiting until it was over to see what I come back down to. should I run a blood test now, to see what the lipids are like while i'm on the var?

  4. #4
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    Im not suggesting you should, as there are far more knowledgeable and experienced brothers here who will have a better opinion on that, but I like to have bloods done mid cycle and near or at the end so I can gauge "damage" to my body.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ripped_one's Avatar
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    Dbol, winny, tbol, halo, m1t, anadrol all affect lipids pretty bad... yes anavar does too but not much different than any other orals. Superdrol made my hdl a 7 in 3 weeks, down from 55.

    Test will drop hdl at any dose that gives you supraphisiologic levels.

    I would ask your doc about your liver values...

  6. #6
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    Originally Posted by ripped_one View Post

    I would ask your doc about your liver values...
    Yeah she wants to do a retest but, I'm going to wait a month before I go back in so that I'll have been off the var and high test has cleared my system. I told her that I was on TRT and that my levels had gone up, it was in the 30's before the blast. So, I told her I will get the dose adjusted then we're going to retest.

  7. #7
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    how does NPP / Deca respond to lipids, and liver values? Maybe I should just forget orals then.

    I think I'll go ahead and get a blood test done this coming week, with a lipids test to see where are all my levels are.

  8. #8
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    Have you been tested for Hep?

  9. #9
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    Originally Posted by Rip View Post
    Have you been tested for Hep?
    not yet she said she wants to wait a month after i've adjusted my test dose to get retested. before i started trt my liver values were 17 AST and 17 ALT. after I started TRT at a 200mg/wk dose it jumped to 30's and now seeing 60's and 80's as my dose is increasing and adding orals.

  10. #10
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    Who's she...a Doctor?
    Does she know how much TEST you took?

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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    ^^^X 2

    i try to stay away from orals too mostly, but mix them in every now and then

  12. #12
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    Originally Posted by Rip View Post
    Who's she...a Doctor?
    Does she know how much TEST you took?
    Yes, she's a GI doc that I just started recently. She doesn't know how much test I was on, I just told her that I was on TRT. I had told her that my liver values when up once I started TRT so she told me to talk to my doc and get the medication adjusted and then she wants to see me again in a month. She wants to see if I can get the numbers low before she has me spending all kinds of money on various blood tests etc. I guess if my numbers don't come down then she'll start doing all those tests.

  13. #13
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    User it's a great idea that ur getting blood done, if taking a oral is still givin u problems I would say stay away. It's just better to be safe than sorry. In that case i would probably say a tweak towards ur diet u can in the beginning of ur cycle might help with the no oral in place.
    Eating ass is anabolic. .. Stick your tongue in and hold it there for 20 seconds! Wise words from
    TRODIZZLE

  14. #14
    Senior Member Four1Thr33's Avatar
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    Originally Posted by Rip View Post
    Have you been tested for Hep?
    Educate me on what hep would change ?
    Wolves don't loose sleepover opinions of sheep

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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    it odd that your on 3-4 liver supports and things are still this bad.

  16. #16
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    should i stay away from orals completely?

    Originally Posted by Four1Thr33 View Post
    Educate me on what hep would change ?
    Hepatitis is a liver disease bro...
    "Overzealous dosing" -Jin

    Rest in Peace Robot Lord. First round of Natty Boh is on me when I make it up there with you brother.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Four1Thr33's Avatar
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    My liver is good and used to have (hep A)is why I was curious
    Like more what parts elevate?
    Wolves don't loose sleepover opinions of sheep

  18. #18
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    If you have Hep C, the drugs would exacerbate the progress of the Hep C

  19. #19
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    Originally Posted by Rip View Post
    If you have Hep C, the drugs would exacerbate the progress of the Hep C
    maybe i should ask her to get tested for it regardless because i just did a quick google search which shows that you could have hep c and still have normal liver values. so if i'm off orals and the liver values come down, that doesn't mean that I don't have it. it does say that it can be caused by alcohol and it could be likely that i have it because it doesn't sound normal for my liver values to go up so high, there's other people that have lower values taking dbol than what i do on var and it's supposed to be the most mildest oral. so i will likely just ask her to do the test anyway and i'm not going to take any orals until it's for sure that i don't have it but, i'm guessing it sounds like i do. at least it says that 50% of people can be cured with some injections and medication, i didn't know if it would require surgery or what. there has to be an explanation as to why my liver values are going up so high and i guess there must be some underlying issue. better to try and figure it out now before it's too late and turns to cirrhosis or something.

  20. #20
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    Re: should i stay away from orals completely?

    dbol is going to be harder on the liver.
    Most things I've read about Anavar says it's mild and not Liver-toxic.

    The only was to get hep see is through blood.
    There is an alcohol-induced hep, but that's not C

    Yes, they treat it with Interferon injections and Ribavirin(antiviral)
    If you use drugs or drink, when you have it, it's only a matter of time before the liver is totally damaged.
    They call Hep C "the silent killer"
    Be careful. Get tested and get a liver biopsy

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