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Thread: Short Cycles

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    Elite conan's Avatar
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    Short Cycles

    I was reading a few things about running a cycle for 2 weeks on 4 weeks off. Just curious if anyone has ever tried this and if so what they thought of it.

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    Elite DF's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    Doesn't make sense to me.

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    Elite Jada's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    It's a waste of time.
    Eating ass is anabolic. .. Stick your tongue in and hold it there for 20 seconds! Wise words from
    TRODIZZLE

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    Re: Short Cycles

    No...just no.

    Short means 8 weeks. Not 2. That said, it is better to keep cycles to 8-10 weeks if you wanna give yourself a fair shake at making a full recovery. That means short esters or frontloading long esters,

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    Re: Short Cycles

    Here is one post I read on the topic. I think the source is from the anabolic enhancement website. I read another article posted by Bill Roberts as well regarding the subject.

    If nothing else there are some interesting ideas expressed. I may just try it out and let you all know how it goes.

    WHAT ARE THEY?

    I call any cycles of 2-6 weeks a short cycle. I have come to the conclusion that 4 weeker give the best gains to sides ratio....and still allow for rapid hpta recovery, even without using hcg during the cycle, since testicular atrophy is minimal.

    FOR WHOM and why?

    -For the paranoid newbie
    -For the person wanting only modest gains from steroids
    -For the athlete
    -For those that just want to get to there natural maximum weight/developement fairly quickly
    *FOR THE LONG TERM USER WANTING TO REDUCE POSSIBLE HEALTH RISKS
    * FOR THE LONG TERM USER WISHING TO EVENTUALLY STOP STEROID USE
    *FOR THE OLDER ATHLETE



    WHY DO THEM(con'd)?

    #1. To reduce time with a shitty lipid profile.

    Many bros get tired of all the F-ing sides form long cycles. I especially got tired of having a crappy lipid profile for months on end with a hdl of next to ZERO(and yes you ALL get this UNSEEN side and nothing really helps, including the #1 hdl modifier, Niacin)

    #2. Generally reduced sides all round

    Many don't get bad acne until after 4 weeks "on"
    Many loose less hair
    My prostate stays okay while on a short cycles with testosterone

    #3. Short cycles are better than training natural(gains wise)....you WILL see gains way faster than you could attain to naturally, especially if you are not near your natural maximum level of developement ie: about 190-195 lean pounds for the average man of 5-9-10" tall.

    #4. Short cycles are a quick way to actually get somewhat above your natural max weight ...then after the cycles you can hold at your natural max with proper natural training. I for one am convinced that nobody can actually hold onto any muscle size above your natural max long term.

    #5. Gains will be more gradual and less noticable and that is actually a positive thing for some people.

    #6. Water retention will be less than on a regular cycle

    WHAT TO EXPECT

    Good gains for the duration "on".
    Actual poundage gained will depend on how developed you are now. If you are not well developed yet then the gains will be very good. I have seen 8 pounds kept from a two week cycle.
    Well developed men that have been lifting for years should expect more modest gains although several pounds of solid muscle can be gained in as little as two weeks and that would take a year to gain training naturally for many advanced men.

    Good and rapid recovery of HPTA especially after two weekers


    WHAT THEY WILL NOT ACCOMPLISH

    They will not get you WAY above your natural maximum weight/developement even if done for years.
    They will not get you really big gains in a single cycle like 12 weekers can.
    They will not get you "noticed" in a short time...may be a positive for some men.


    HOW?

    The very short cycles of 2-3 weeks should be done ONLY with short acting/clearing injectables, and orals. You want to get hormone levels up right away and then you want them to clear soon after stopping. Long acting esters prolong a cycle due to long half lives.

    Front loading of injectables is a very good idea...to get hormone levels up fast.
    Doses should be fairly big and strong gear needs to be used for the best results, although you can use what you wish to here.
    I recommend larger doses for short cycles than for long cycles.


    EXAMPLES

    Two weeker #1.

    d-bol 50mg a day in 3-5 divided doses and for 14 days.
    Tren 150mg on day one and then 75mg/day for 12- 13 days.

    Clomid at 200-300mg in divided doses on day 15 and then 50-100/day for a week and then 50 a day for two more weeks.
    OR....Nolva at 80-100mg on day one in divided doses and then 20-40mg/day for a week and then 20/day for two more weeks.

    HCG every 3rd day at 500units while "on" . HCG is optional on this cycle as time "on" is short and little if any testicular shrikage will occur.

    Nolva on hand for gyno



    Two weeker #2

    Test prop at 300mg on day one and then 100-150mg per day through day 12. Tren 150 on day one and then 75 a day through day 12. Clomid or nolva as above starting day 15.

    Estrogen inhibitor is optional as is HCG

    Nolva on hand for gyno



    Two weeker #3 (advanced)

    Test prop, tren as above PLUS d-bol 50mg/day through day 14.
    Nolva on hand for gyno

    May want an estrogen inhibitor with d-bol and test prop



    THREE AND FOUR WEEKERS

    Use the same hormones and doses as above...just extend the time "on" .
    HCG use might be a good idea for 4 weekers but not that important unless you start doing many 4 "on" 4 "off" cycles in a row as testicular atrophy might become an issue with this schedule.

    LONG ESTERED INJECTABLES FOUR WEEKERS(advanced)

    I still think rapid acting /clearing gear is best for a 4 weeker. You want to get in as quick as possible the make your gains and get the hell out as quick as possible.

    Front loading is more important with longer acting estered injectables.

    Test cyp or enanthate 800mg on day one ...no more than 2-3 cc in any one site.
    EQ at 800mg on day one as above.
    Then 400mg each on day 3 and every 3rd day after that. Last shot about day 15.
    Tren 75/day through day 27
    d-bol 50/day in 3-5 divided doses through day 28
    Will probably like an estrogen inhibitor
    HCG 500 iu's every 3rd day while "on"
    Clomid or nolva as above starting on day 29.



    NEWBIE FIRST STEP CYCLE(you can try any of the non advanced cycles above too)

    D-bol 50mg/day in 3-5 divided doses for 14 days. Clomid or Nolva as above

    OR

    Test prop 100mg/day for 2-3 weeks and then Clomid 2 days after last shot.

    OR

    Test cyp or enanthate 500mg on day one and then 250 three days latter and 250 every 3 days after that . Last shot day 21 Clomid or nolva two weeks latter as above.




    GENERAL TIPS

    Always practise time "on" = time "off" with your steroid use, at least.

    You can get very good gains from several 2 "on" 2 "off" cycles in a row. If you do more than 3 of these cycles in a row then I would recommend HCG use during the time "on"

    Two "on" with four weeks off can be done all year round as you are "on" only for a third of the year.

    Four weeks "on" with 5-6 weeks off is a nice way to go and produces very good gains.

    * Check out my comments in follow up posts on this thread in regard to training frequency while on these short cycles.

    HEALTH TIPS

    I have had very good success normalizing my lipid profile with 2 grams of non flush naicin/day in divided doses while "off" and I recommend this for rapid normalization of your hdl post cycle.
    I have done up to 5 grams of non flush nicain while "on" and it has done NOTHING...nor has it helped my brother-in-law or training partner while "on" steroids.

    *Regular niacin will give you big time ichy flushing spells after taking the tabs....AND IT CAN BE HARD ON THE LIVER if doses about 1.5 grams are taken.


    I recommend a good mega multi Vit and extra anti oxidants like E, C, Selenium, carotenes, as well as essential fats like odu's oil(omega 3&6 combo oil) all the time, and especailly while "on".

    NOTE: The healthy liver will not be damaged by 50mg of d-bol a day for up to 4 weeks unless you drink alcohol more than moderately.
    If you are on acutane for acne then scip any 17aa roids like d-bol.

    By RealGains




    Background:
    I began BBing with a trainer from Germany. In educating me, he related to me that, in his time BBing there, European BBers were relatively without American influence. Common practice called for the use of short halflife ester injectables, the variety of which was very much greater than exists today, combined with mild orals like Anavar and Winstrol and, sometimes, Dbol. Short cycles(2-4 weeks) were also the norm. Most interesting, use of test was very uncommon, and considered a horror. What was commonly used was Parabolan, what we, today, call Trenbolone. Eight week cycles were virtually unheard of, and the desire to pack on 20-40 pounds in such a short time was unthinkable. European BBers took a much more unhurried pace of growth. Young, competitive BBers were very much smaller than those found in the US, today, due to this orderly pace of growth. It was only the very rare, genetically unusual BBer who was big at a young age. Europeans simply had a different outlook and different standards.

    Early on, my trainer lamented the situation he found in the US: heavy dependance upon test, long halflife esters used in long cycles, gross overeating, poor estrogen suppression, acceptance of high bodyfat percentages, and excessive lbm development in short timespans. He was horrified at what he envisioned would be the longterm consequences of widespread use of these practices. He was associated with IFBB pros, like Zhur, el Sonbaty, Schlierkamp, and Ruhl, while in Europe. He was well aware of the health complications associated with extreme muscularity. He kept reiterating "BBing is a sport for life".

    While still a natural, I began to examine how an entire philosphy of AAS use might be developed, based upon the European experience. By the time it was appropriate for me to begin AAS, years later, I already had a plan. Initially, I quietly used myself as a lab rat. The results became quite visible, and, before too long, questions followed. My trainer asked that we work together, to develop a new way for his athletes to grow. And here we are.....

    Characteristics of AAS:
    There are two clearly discernable characteristics of interest to BBers. Anabolic: muscle growth/hypertrophy. and Androgenic: strength, aggression, fat burning. Most AAS possess these two characteristics in varying ratios, and in various strengths. For example, Halotestin may be seen to produce a pure androgenic response, but no anabolic response. Deca, on the other hand, will produce anabolism with no significant androgenic response. Test produces roughly a 50 percent anabolic response, and 50 percent androgenic response. Then there is strength of response. Winstrol is a moderate, pure anabolic. Anavar is a moderate, pure androgen. Trenbolone is a very powerful androgen(80 percent of total response), much more powerful than the androgenic characteristics of test. Tren's anabolic characteristic(20 percent of total response), is weaker than that of test. And so on. I have built a complete table of response characteristics of all the AAS components we use.

    Site injection and localized growth:
    Time and time again, we have seen localized growth response to site injected, esterless and short halflife AAS. I no longer accept that a positive response is anecdotal. It's just too commonplace, in my own work. Consequently, we no longer waste gear in glutes and quads. We identify and then site inject any and all lagging bodyparts, in a rotating injection program. And we have seen some startling responses. In nearly every case, we prefer tren and an esterless AAS, for the most powerful response. There must be weak-, or non-responders, but I have yet to find any. I owe much, in this particular area, to the work of Paul Borreson.

    Cycle design:
    Cycles are assembled by, first, determining the end response characteristics desired, and assembling components whose AAS characteristics interlock together to produce that end response with a minimum of overlap, over the cycle timespan desired. Consider this cycle: Nandrolone phenylpropionate(EOD), tren(EOD), Winstrol depot((ED), optional Anavar(ED). I've remarked, elsewhere, on the desireability of pairing tren with Winstrol. We require the use of a pure androgen for EVERY cycle, to insure strength, onging muscle definition, density, and post cycle androgenicity, so Anavar is our choice for this cycle. Here, Tren is our primary androgen, and nandrolone our primary anabolic. All of these agents are selected for their lack of water retention. All are either short acting or esterless, so that meets our requirements for site injection. And, yes, we do site inject it all. We begin by frontloading the estered injectables, up to three days before cycle day zero, and add the orals and esterless injectables at cycle day minus one. On cycle day zero, the AAS is already active, with blood levels increasing. We end the injectables and orals, suitably in advance of the end of the cycle, so that, on cycle day 15, the AAS is non-inhibitory, and HTPA recovery begins immediately. Add on 14 days further system recovery, and then a cycle can begin anew. Seven weeks, total. Over a year, this might be acccomplished seven times. When HCG, and an anti-e at suitable dosage, are added to the Clomid, the HTPA may be recovered in only 2 weeks. This shortens the next cycle availability point by one week.

    Yes, it's a lot of injections. And the Winstrol hurts.

    What might be expected, in the way of results? Bulking, we have seen as much as 10 pounds lbm. Average is five pounds. Over a year, that's 35 pounds. You say, "Hell, I can grow that much in 8 weeks". I say, let's see how many times a year you can accomplish that, and over how many years do you think you will continue to accomplish that? We have this steady, measured growing, going on and on. My guess is that this approach, using only a modest bulking diet, rather than the typical American pig-out bulking diet, can be accomplished for years and years. Due to short cycle length and rational diet design, there is very little fat gain. No pressing need to cut. No need to look like the typical big, smooth BBer, who only looks cut once a year. Our people are lean, defined, and feel healthy, all the time. They only spend two weeks out of seven(or six), cycling. And, since they get normalized quickly, they can train and grow natural, more quickly, because there is none of the weeks and weeks of getting that slow AAS out of their systems. The BBer doing the typical 8 week long acting ester cycle, exists for weeks in a kind of limbo, where the blood levels are not high enough for anabolism, but are still inhibitory, and he must wait all that extra time. My people are off, longer than they are on. Their bodies, free of drugs.

    We tend to avoid test. Not completely; just most of the time. What we found is that, anytime you use test, it magnifies the sides of whatever you use with it. Tren, used in rational dosages, is relatively free of sides, and causes fewer overall sides during cycles. We use tren, like the typical BBer uses test. With tren, you get much more response, with much lower dosages, with greater androgenic intensity. Someone once wrote that tren was "the gear of the gods". Indeed, the Europeans brought to BBing AAS, a very great gift. We do use test, but only for very specialized purposes.

    We only use one type of eight week bulk cycle. That for Boldenone, which now can only be obtained in a very long halflife ester. We are working with a supplier, and are patiently awaiting him to provide us with our first esterless Boldenone. Testing will begin immediately afterwords, to develop new dosage and protocols, following which, we expect to end our use of nandrolone phenylpropionate. Too many of our clients exhibit some degree of bloat from progesterone aromatization, emerging from the nandrolone. We consider any bloat, from any origin, entirely unacceptable, on health and esthetic grounds.

    Bodyfat gain on cycles:
    Ever notice how productive of muscle, a cycle usually is, during the first four weeks, and how it slows down and bodyfat accumulates, during the second four weeks? You end up eating more, in the attempt to return things to the former rate. More bodyfat. Finally, the whole process slows down for good. What's going on? The common explanation is that you are getting bigger, so that requires more nutrition. We say no. We say the body realizes what is going on, it exhausts and compensates, and body metabolism and developmental processes simply will no longer support this process. But you continue to eat. And that food has got no place else to go, but be turned into fat, with unproductive lbm production.

    Our short cycle designs, whether for 2, 3, or 4 weeks features tren, as a foundation, which is a potent fat burner, due to powerful androgenicity, and will not aromatize to estrogen. And a diet, which is clean, and appropriately sized for rational lbm gain, while minimizing conversion to fat. Later, the body is clean of AAS, and primed for most sensitive and effective response, before the cycle begins. The conversion from nutrition to muscle takes place under optimum conditions, at low bodyfat levels. The AAS ramp-up is swift and full, and the cycle ends before the system can de-sensitize and cause spillover of nutrition to bodyfat.

    Estrogen pileup is another cause of bodyfat accumulation, during the typical 8 week, long halflife ester cycle. I suggest that readers visit the AE zine Issue 46, and download the blood concentration calculator from the excellent article on blood concentration of various halflife esters of AAS. Then, plug in your long halflife ester cycle components, and witness the startling blood level concentrations of what you are injecting, late in the cycle. Using the typical paltry anti-e dosages of the typical BBer, is it any wonder that, late in the cycle, estrogen levels build up out of control, and bodyfat follows?

    Estrogen and anti-e:
    It is an obsolete belief that estrogen is necessary in any cycle. Indeed, ANY amount of estrogen is BAD in any cycle! There is not one study which supports the notion. But the idea lived on in yet another obsolete notion; that water weight is good weight, in a cycle. That, water introduced into the muscle, causes increased lifts, and by lifting heavier, greater growth is obtained. The experts would purposely advise minimal amounts of anti-estrogen drugs, only to minimize the chance of gyno, but to insure lots of this, supposedly, desireable water weight. On the AE boards, I have witnessed these experts advising NO anti-e's, but only to have some Nolvadex at hand, to deal with gyno, should it appear. Not only do you end up with fake strength and fake muscle size, but, at the same time, the estrogen buildup causes high blood pressure, electrolyte imbalance, and a host of health issues. There is water buildup in the lower back to the extent that posts frequently document BBers in pain, cramps, and difficulty, attempting deads. The champions of this approach say "Oh just take some ibuprofen, and you will be just fine". Try asking your liver what it thinks about that approach. Following the cycle, the water disappears, along with the strength and size it fooled the user into believing was real muscle. This often causes depression, and chases the user into a course of Creatine, to re-introduce that fake size and strength. The muscle character appears smooth, and the density is poor. When the BBer diets down, all this is lost, and the truth is seen. It's no wonder that certain other experts advise that BBers never come off AAS, so this scenario may never be exposed for what it is: a rollercoaster of reality versus water weight. I agree with them. It is not healthy to run back and forth between lost size and fullness caused by water weight. But it also is not a good thing to stay on AAS, all the time, either. This is a totally brain dead approach to AAS use. And the BBer who engages in it never attains the quality, defined physique he deserves. It's just alot of smooth water weight and high bodyfat.

    And bodyfat. Everyone should know that the presence of excess estrogen causes fat deposition. The greater and the longer the exposure to elevated levels of estrogen, the greater the bodyfat accumulation. Endos, listen up; stay away from any situation which creates elevated estrogen levels. Everyone, listen up; it is OBSOLETE cycle technology to enable anything but minimal levels of estrogen, at any time. Estrogen is evil, and it is NOT your friend. Using anti-e's cannot reduce estrogen to levels below which the male body cannot function properly. It requires very little estrogen to function, and no anti-e removes it all.

    What to do? Begin, with an entirely different approach. Say that ANY water weight is BAD weight. That estrogen must be banished, to the fullest rational extent. And that the muscle you grow and see is, in fact, muscle, and not water. That the muscle produced will be dense and well defined. A quality physique. How, then does one obtain that increased strength, which the water provided, to enhance growth during the cycle? As stated, we first kill off the estrogen and bloat. Second, we emphasize the introduction of powerful androgens into the cycle structure. I am speaking, once again, of tren and anavar. Together, these components make you VERY strong. And with NO bloat or estrogen required. The concentrated androgenicity encourages intense, aggressive workouts, while also encouraging fat burning. It is very commonplace to observe body recompositions during such cycles. In other words, you get big and lose bodyfat, simultaneously. The androgenicity also produces significantly increased muscle density and definition. At cycle end, what you end up with, is the real deal. Solid muscle, growth, and increased definition. No need to rush to the nearest container of creatine to stem your losses. And that strength is yours, to keep. And no test.....

    Now, go back to that blood concentration calculator, and compare the blood concentrations of the typical 75 mg EOD of tren, to what you were subjecting yourself to, with that long halflife ester cycle. No stress caused by estrogen pileup, either. Now, you tell me which alternative is better.

    What do we use to suppress Estrogen? Well, we formerly used grams of Arimidex per day. Arimidex is now an antique for us. We use Femara. We prefer one 2.5 mg tab ED. Our clients are kept dry as a bone. We will begin to study Aromasin, in mid-September. Aromasin utilizes a different approach to Estrogen control, which promises to be even more powerful than Femara. But research indicates that IGF-1 production is not suppressed by Femara, but may, in fact, be enhanced by it. We do not see that with Aromasin. Time and experimentation will tell.

    Most importantly, we keep our people on anti-e, post cycle, during the HTPA recovery process, and later. This both speeds recovery of the HTPA, as well as minimizing fat buildup, while hormone levels fluctuate wildly.

    Androgenicity and quality:
    BBers commonly justify their long cycles by saying that they need the long cycle to enable "consolidation". They observe that this effect only occurs late in the cycle. Why is this? It's because the androgen level of the Sustanon test, typically used, takes that long to pile up and affect the muscularity of the BBer. But what about Trenbolone? Almost without fail, users commonly report density and hardening to appear within a few weeks. Why is this? Because the androgenic response of tren is so much more powerful than that of test. You can get this response to produce quality muscle at dosages of only 75 mg EOD, in less than a month. In a Sustanon test, it takes many weeks to accumulate an immense blood concentration, to achieve the same result. It is commonplace to observe tren users burning fat, while they cycle. Sust users never report this effect. Why? Once again, the androgenic response of tren is so much greater than that of test. Intense androgenicity induces fat burning. If Anavar is added, the androgenicity effect is intensified, still further.

    Ever hear of the term "muscle maturity"? It describes muscle which is dense and defined. The commonly accepted belief is that it takes years and years to acquire this muscle characteristic. But why? Because, using test, the exposure to the muscle hardening androgenicity only occurs for about two weeks in the typical long cycle. And that cycle can only be repeated a few times a year. In the tren/anavar-based short cycle, the exposure to muscle hardening androgenicity occurs for longer periods, and the cycle can be repeated many times a year. "Muscle maturity", and quality, appears with rapidity, and not with years and years. I see muscle quality in only one year of regular short cycling, which I never see in the typical long cycle BBer, unless it occurs for years. Which would you prefer?

    The issue of health:
    There are those who say the typical American method of cycling, using long acting ester cycles, for 8 weeks or more, and eating 7-10,000 calories per day, for all that time, is no danger to health. To that, I say this: in the millions of years of human evolution, at no time, ever, has the male of our species been exposed to the barrage of hormonal, metabolic, and developmental pressure and manipulation, as occurs during the long acting ester eight week cycle. Do you really believe our bodies were engineered and evolved to deal with this attack, as well as the stress of being forced to add 20-40 pounds of lbm and bodyfat in this same timespan, over and over, again? Don't be a fool. If you believe so, then you are whistling past the cemetery. And there are additional fools, who would have you believe that staying on this course, continuously, can do you no harm. This is, currently, an unprecedented, uncontrolled lab experiment, taking place all over the world, with thousands of men as lab rats. The long term outcome cannot be predicted by anyone, today. True, every single one of us will die, someday. My people and I have no intention of hastening the arrival of that inevitable day, just to look big in a coffin, as we are laid to our eternal rest. What the hell is YOUR hurry? And, what if you don't die? What if you are forced to leave your beloved sport, and spend the rest of your days, living with hypertension and heart damage due to tachycardia. And kidney damage caused by the hypertension. And still other health issue possibilities. Is this any way to live? It's a personal value judgement and risk assessment process. Step back for a moment, and re-evaluate your position and priorities.

    The end game:
    One other matter, which few consider. Everyone has a genetically pre-programmed maximum of lbm, which their body will suppport, regardless of whether you reach it, via AAS. The faster you approach it, the sooner your gains will decline, no matter how much juice you cycle, and how often you cycle it. You will end up spending money, juicing larger quantities of gear, and stressing your body, for diminishing returns. Finally, you are tapped out. All the slin, growth hormone, IGF-1, and whatever else you toss at it, will never get you past that limit. In a minority of individuals, they will attain immense lbm gains, over time. The rest of us, face the remainder of our BBing careers, re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. All we accomplish is staying right where we are, until we leave the sport in frustration.

    BBing is a sport for life. Why exhaust yourself and your body, in a hurry to arrive at the end of the journey, earlier than you need to? I'm 48 years old, and I look forward to growing and growing, for as long as I remain in the sport. We have a 65 year old client, who last competed 11 years ago. We did a few short cycles with him, dieted and prepped him, and he walked away with a second prize trophy, healthy and happy. Have any of you ever considered that you might still be able to lift and compete at that age? You better forget it, if all you can think of is slamming on endless pounds, today and tomorrow. Your time in BBing will either end in poor health, or the frustration of having reached your limit, and going no further.

    Summary:
    I have presented, above, only the most basic introduction to my philosophy and approach to short cycling, and offered only a simple example out of a program which I spent years developing. I have devised an entire series of special-purpose cycles, each of which embody most, if not all of the above principles.

    The purpose of the short cycle is to employ moderate dosages of short halflife ester and esterless injectable and oral AAS, combined with moderate and healthy diet, to promote moderate stress anabolic growth, over time. This same process results in very high quality muscle production, which only increases with each cycle, and minimal health impact. It assumes a long term outlook. It is intended for the mature and rational BBer, who expects to remain in the sport for the rest of his life. If you truly love BBing, you never want to leave, and you want to keep your interest and grow, then consider how the short cycle might be what you need for your future in our beloved sport.

    Finally:
    I want to take the time to publically thank my very special friends and clients, who put their faith in me, and assisted me by using my protocols. Through their invaluable feedback and experience, they enabled me to refine and perfect my overall program. Without them, this all would be nothing but theory. Some are former and present members of this fine board.

    And thank you, for taking the time to read all these words. I hope they help you in your journey, as BBers.

  6. #6
    Senior Member SAD's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    Holy fawking novel bro.

    I've tried super short cycles with the guidance of Bill Roberts, but in my experience, they are more hell on your HPTA than anything else. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge advocate of short cycles, i.e. 6-10 weeks, but 2 on / 4 off is just a hormonal roller coaster no matter how fast you recover.
    Conquer yourself through wise experimentation.

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    Re: Short Cycles

    Yeah dude way to much to read. Being on then off rhen on then off would def **** your Hpta up. Maybe not the guy that wrote that novel might not if had issues but the normal joe mostblikely.

    Dudes have been running 12 week cycles since forever that I can remember. There's a reason why we all do that. So join the club and throw this garbage out the window.

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    Re: Short Cycles

    have you heard the term "Roller Coaster"......???

    dont man, 10 wks is the shortest id ever go. and thats based on all short esters that work well after 8-9 days of use.

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    Re: Short Cycles

    I like settling into a cycle as well as being off. It's the transitional period of going "on" that I get the the excessive sweating, no sleep, etc.. and when I'm going "off" well ya that sucks even more..
    I <3 My Source

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    Re: Short Cycles

    Shut down is shut down...............what don't you get about that?
    Thugs
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    Matter

  11. #11
    Banned Tilltheend's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    2 weeks is enough it can shut you down. Its not worth it all you are doing is tangling and warping your HPTA doing 2 on and 4 off.

  12. #12
    Senior Member coltmc4545's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    I could see this as ok if you were on trt and blasting and cruising. But like was stated above, that's a hell of a rollercoaster ride to be on if you're not cruising between.

  13. #13
    Elite mistah187's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    8 weeks is the shortest i have ever gone. but i rarely go under 12 weeks now.
    Stay consistent!

  14. #14
    Senior Member RedLang's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    I would constantly be moody as ****! I hate that rollercoaster feeling i get when changing doses.
    I do now what others won't. So I can have later what others can't

  15. #15
    Elite ken Sass's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    not for this old guy

  16. #16
    Elite conan's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    Thanks for the input guys. I usually run the 8-12 cycle with the occasional 16, but I just thought this looked interesting, and thought I would throw it out there in the event that someone has tried them.

  17. #17
    Elite PFM's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    Originally Posted by conan View Post
    Thanks for the input guys. I usually run the 8-12 cycle with the occasional 16, but I just thought this looked interesting, and thought I would throw it out there in the event that someone has tried them.
    Ain't broke don't fix it.
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  18. #18
    Elite hulksmash's Avatar
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    Re: Short Cycles

    Bunch of BS in that article; almost spit out my drink I read a BBer who never cycles off "never attains the quality, defined physique he deserves. It's just alot of smooth water weight and high bodyfat."

    LOL what an idiot...this is why every pro never goes off and only ever looks fat and watery

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