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  1. #1
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    2nd cycle with prop kick and finish help

    Stats: 5'11'' 190lb BF~13-14%?

    This will be my 2nd cycle.....first cycle finished up about a year ago and wanted to start another one this spring, but ended up with injuries so all on hold. First cycle was 12-13 weeks of test E at 500ml a week.

    I have a bunch of test E and 3 vials of Prop. How would I dose this for a start and finish?

    I was thinking 150ml EOD for 16 days (8 pins) and then 75nl EOD for 12 days (6 pins) This would give me 4 weeks while waiting for the E to kick in.

    Then either 500 or 600ml for weeks 1-10 of E

    Pin test P 150ml EOD 4 days after last E injection until out (should have enough for 7 shots)

    Plan on hcg for first time during cycle 250iu/2wk, no blast
    Arimidex .5 EOD, adjust as needed

    Does this look okay? Tweaks? Am I on crack and way off??

    PCT
    Clomid 50/50/50/50
    Novla 25/25/25/25

  2. #2
    Elite TheLupinator's Avatar
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    Re: 2nd cycle with prop kick and finish help

    I've never done a prop kick-start, seems like a lot of chance to over shoot your test initially. But if I was gonna try to keep a stable levels from the start I'd pin 150mg (EOD) for the first 4 pins then drop it 10mg (.1ml) every injection thereafter. The test-e will slowly build up so it makes the most sense to slowly wind down the prop. Your last inject of prop would be 50mg and would bring through just over 1.5 vials.

    Then I'd wait a full week (or 2) before hitting the prop at the end to stretch the cycle. I've always ran long-esters and continued to make gains even 2weeks after last pin. Then hit the prop at 175mg EOD (should have 7-8 pins left)

    Also I'm assuming you meant HCG @ 250iu 2x per week and not 250iu every 2 weeks?
    I <3 My Source

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    Mortal Kombat Legend SHRUGS's Avatar
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    Re: 2nd cycle with prop kick and finish help

    Save the Prop for at the end. Piss on a kickstart there's no need to be impatient for a few weeks. The Prop at the end will make transitioning into pct a lot smoother. Also I would drop the HCG during this mild cycle and just stick with the blast. U got my 2cents brother...
    !SHRUGS!

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    Re: 2nd cycle with prop kick and finish help

    Yes, I meant HCG twice a week. And I have yet to fully decide on the kickstart, but def want to end with it.

  5. #5
    Elite PillarofBalance's Avatar
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    Re: 2nd cycle with prop kick and finish help

    ml is a measure of volume
    mg is a measure of dose

    Do not confuse the two.
    "Overzealous dosing" -Jin

    Rest in Peace Robot Lord. First round of Natty Boh is on me when I make it up there with you brother.

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    Elite Rage Strength's Avatar
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    Re: 2nd cycle with prop kick and finish help

    I've done a prop kicker when I started my bulk. ****in loved it. Prop doesn't bloat me at all and makes me very strong and a vascular fast. You could give it a try, just run an ai and you'll be gtg
    You can't run with the big dogs if you piss like a puppy!

  7. #7
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    Re: 2nd cycle with prop kick and finish help

    Save the prop for the end. Makes timing your PCT sooo much easier, therefore making recovery/restart easier.

    I am an extremely impatient guy, so I've been front loading for a while.

    Recently a vet (Sworder)from my home board did a really nice, in depth write-up on front loading.

    Feel free to point out any issues, or holes in the logic, I know different boards, often hold to different truths, or fallacies...

    FWIW

    I wanted to post some information on frontloading as it is something which is seen as an advanced technique but rather I would see that it is very easy and calling it advanced means that you just need to learn more. A lot of the information gathered was exposed to me by Bill Roberts. The purpose of frontloading is to get to the dose you want to metabolize quicker. Waiting 3-5 weeks for the half-lives to build is tedious and unnecessary. PCT with dosages as 40/40/20/20 is not needed. If you want to metabolize 40 mg/day on week one then adjust the amounts so you do. Manipulate the dosage according to the half-life so you metabolize the amount you desire. This is important with Clomid as it is typically used just for two weeks and by that time it will just have reached the level you want.


    The following chart measures how much of Testosterone Enthantate you metabolize in Week 1 of a 500mg/week cycle. This was taken from a steroid calculator and the numbers include a 5% waste factor and the numbers may be off by a little but the big picture is the focus.

    Day 1: Inject 250 mg of Testosterone Enthantate Metabolize 26 mg
    Day 2: Metabolize 23 mg
    Day 3: Metabolize 21 mg
    Day 4: Inject 250 mg of Test Enthantate Metabolize 44 mg
    Day 5: Metabolize 39 mg
    Day 6: Metabolize 35mg
    Day 7: Metabolize 31 mg

    For Week 1 you metabolized only 219 mg of Test E when your goal is 500.

    The following is the amount metabolize week 1 when frontloading:
    Day 1: Inject 600mgs Test Enthantate Metabolize 62 mg
    Day 2: Metabolize 55 mg
    Day 3: Metabolize 49 mg
    Day 4: Inject 250 mgs Test Enthantate Metabolize 70 mg
    Day 5: Metabolize 62 mg
    Day 6: Metabolize 55 mg
    Day 7: Metabolize 49 mg

    For Week 1 when frontloading you will metabolize 402 mg of Test E when your goal is 500. Much better in my opinion.

    The Formula

    To establish the amount you should inject/ingest on the first day of frontloading you can use a the following formula to calculate the value. IT IS ONLY THE FIRST DAY YOU INJECT THIS AMOUNT. After that you follow your regular injection schedule.

    Weekly amount/7xHalf-life in days + regular inject amount = Frontload

    For measuring SERMs/AIs this formula is easier to use

    Daily amount x half-life + regular dose = Frontload

    Example, I am going to do 12 weeks of 500mgs Test E/week, planning on injecting 250 mg Monday and Thursday. How much should I frontload? Using the formula I plug in my values.

    500/7 x 5 + 250 = Frontload

    71 x 5 + 250 = Frontload

    357 + 250 = Frontload

    607 = Frontload

    Now to get the help get the exact amount of 607 I recommend diluting 1 ml of 250mg/ml Test by adding 7 ml cottonseed oil so you now have a solution which is 31mg/ml and grab your insulin needle and measure 23units(0,23ml) add this volume to your 600 mg of test and you now have your dose measured(607mg). Just kidding you can just round to 600 or whatever number is easier for you.

    To assist in your usage of the formula I will include some half-lives. Note, there is a slight variation of half-lives depending on the source. The fact that it is measured in days and not hours grants a +-12 hour variation which isn't too accurate either.

    Testosterone Enthantate: 5 days
    Testosterone Cypionate: 5 days(The difference between Test E and Test C is rather trivial and this is where the aforementioned -+12hour difference comes into play).
    Decanoate(Deca): 6 days (I thought it was a little higher but most medical literature state 6 days)
    Boldenone Undecylenate: 14 days

    Tamoxifen Citrate(Nolvadex): 5 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
    Clomiphene citrate(Clomid): 5 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
    Anastrozole (Arimidex): 2 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
    Letrozole (Letro, Femara): 2 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
    hCG: 33hours to 48 hours depending on intramuscular or subcutaneous injection

    The latter 3 might not need to be frontloaded but I felt the need to post them anyway.

    Also I wanted to incorporate a cheat sheet for the most common ones and those who don't want to read through all this wall of text and learn how to do it. Going to list the Compound and Weekly dosage you wish to do and then the amount you should inject assuming an equal amount is injected twice a week.

    Test E/C: 500 mg/week 607 mg on the first day only.
    Test E/C: 600 mg/week 678 mg on the first day only.
    Test E/C: 750 mg/week 910 mg on the first day only.
    Test E/C: 1000 mg/week 1214 mg on the first day only.

    Boldenone(Equipoise):400mgs/week 885 mg on the first day only
    Boldenone(Equipoise):500mgs/week 1107 mg on the first day only
    Boldenone(Equipoise):600mgs/week 1328 mg on the first day only
    Boldenone(Equipoise):750mgs/week 1660 mg on the first day only

    Tamoxifen Citrate(Nolvadex): 20 mg/day 120 mg on the first day only You ingest, DO NOT INJECT

    Clomiphene citrate(Clomid): 50 mg/day 300 mg on the first day only You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
    Vet @ MesoRx...Vet @ TID...Banned proudly from OLM...Banned proudly from ProMus

  8. #8
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    Re: 2nd cycle with prop kick and finish help

    Originally Posted by PillarofBalance View Post
    ml is a measure of volume
    mg is a measure of dose

    Do not confuse the two.
    Thanks POB, I knew that....but glad you pointed it out.

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