Cashout's HRT Exit Strategy

[LeanHerm]

The old bastards of SI!!! Lol.

 

[Cashout]

New numbers from last Friday's blood work...just faxed to me this morning.

Quick summary
Total Test - 893 ng/dl
E - 24.7
LH - 5.9
FSH - 6.1
Crit - 48.4%

Still rockin' & rollin' au natural.

I have to go pick up the full print outs later but hormone and CBC look good.

I am now 120 days past the exit.

Since March 5th the only drug that I have put into my body has been 1.25 mg of Proscar daily.

I have not had a test shoot since December 1st 2011.

 

[DF]

Damn, Cashout I'm jealous of those numbers. I'm glad for you bro fantastic news.

 

[juuced]

wow this is amazing. I would of bet big bucks that those total test numbers would be a lot lower.

btw I am glad I found you again Cashout. Used to be called Packgus at ology.

 

[Cashout]

Glad you are here now and good to touch base again.

Things have gone exceptionally well with this exit.

In fact, I am even starting to think that the "one mistake" I made with let my estrogen creep up to +/-40 may have actually helped me overall and not hurt me like I first thought. That is a really long discussion grounded on some evolving theory and I'll save that for another day.

 

[juuced]

Cashout - will you ever go back on TRT again? heck if you can maintain 900 ish total test why would you?

at what levels would you have to drop down to?

 

[Cashout]

Cashout - will you ever go back on TRT again? heck if you can maintain 900 ish total test why would you?

at what levels would you have to drop down to?

I don't plan on it. 900+/- is where my natural levels have always been since the time I was 16-17 years old.

Even after 5 years of cycle when I was competing, I was able to restore that natural test level.

The problem started when my levels dropped to to 579 in 06'.

In 06' I got caught in what I call the "death spiral" of over training. I started getting colds and flu and that had never happened in my life. When I would recover, of course, I'd train even harder and it happen all over again.

So, I learned a lot about how much my body can actually handle. For the first time in my life, I had to admit that I could actually over train.

In 20 some odd years of training, I never was able to accomplish that. It is true, strange things start to happen as we age.

So, long answer to short question, I think I am smarter now and I can avoid what caused my drop in T the first go around.

 

[BigFella]

Great feedback Cash. Thanks. Those numbers are beautiful.

 

[curls]

Cashout how did you feel physically and mentally while on your exit? Did you loose any muscle?

 

[Cashout]

As I noted in the original thread on another board, I never experienced and physical downturns, loss of energy, or mental swings during or since the exit.

It went as smoothly as I could have hoped.

I attribute that to the extensive amount of planning and monitoring that I did with my physicians prior, during, and after the exit.

I have actually gain a couple of pounds of muscle since the exit.

 

[mckinnj]

Cashout,

I am thinking about starting your restart soon, and I'm hoping you can help me with a couple things?

The restart calls for Nolvadex, but I seem to have some fairly serious side effects from it's use. I tried Nolvadex 6+ years ago when I was trying to recover from this steroid induced shutdown, and again when I could not shrink some nagging gyno last year. Both times I got inflammation in both eyes- red, dry, painful. I didn't tell the eye doctor what the cause was, but he said the inflammation was fairly serious. My vision had become extremely blurry for 2-3 weeks. I wasn't sure it was the NOlvadex until it happened the second time- years later.

Clomid does not seem to cause me any issues at at least 50mg doses. Can I just take clomid, or is there another SERM I can add that has visual sides nothing like Nolvadex, but can stimulate the same way? I have heard that Raloxifen is a good alternative, and safe on the eyes.

My second question is regarding blood testing. I don't have a ton of money to spend on a large panel of tests. I found a site where I can labs online that would be cost effective, but I am not sure if it is enough, as it does not include SHBG as far as I can see unless it is under the comprehensive metabolic panel> Estradiol- Serum, Luteinizing Hormone (LH), Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH), Testosterone- Serum, Complete Blood Count (CBC), Comprehensive Metabolic Profile

Right now I am under the care of an HRT DR He is completely against Scally's restart, so there is no hope that he would approve of this restart protocol. He thinks that those levels of HCG could cause primary hypogonadism by desensitizing the Leydig cells in the testes- any thoughts on that?


Thanks, Jim

 

[Cashout]

Jim,

As far as other substitutes for Nolva, I don't know how well, if at all, Ralox would work in place of Nolva. I've never used it personally for PCT/Restart nor have any of the guys with whom I've worked through PCT/Restart. So I don't have any solid evidence from which to form an opinion. I would say if the sides from Nolva are per your description, I would use Ralox instead. No point in those negative effects.

As far as the blood panel goes, there is a link here in another thread that has a blood panel through LabCorp I think that cost about $50 bucks and it includes every marker that you would need. I am not sure where the link is but I know there are guys on here who use it and they could tell you.

As for desensiting the Lydigs with 2000 iu of HCG per app, Lydig cell "desentation" is a theory that was described from research conduct in a petrie dish (in vitro) and has never been demonstrated in vivo. I am suprised your Dr is resistant to Scally's protocol based on that premise.

 

[Spongy]

Privatemdlabs.com is what you're thinking of (i think) cashout. The hormone panel for females (yes, females) has everything you should need and is $59.99. There is a coupon code every month that should give you 15% off and bring the total to $50.90 or so. This is what i always use and am happy with it.

 

[mckinnj]

Cashout, Spongy,

Thanks for the great information.

My Dr is well known in this field. I believe he has some history with Scally, which may be why he is against his protocol.

 

[Mountain Warrior]

cashout I don't understand your exit strategy the way you have posted the drug doesage and breakdown.. Are you able to clarify it for us less knowledgable ones please?

 

[PillarofBalance]

Hi Guys, where is this forum based? The states? Little old New Zealand here.. cheers for the interesting read guys.. Im on TRT and am leaving a lot of this stuff up to my doc as Im unfortunately a real dummy when it comes to this stuff. Its frustrating as a lot of what you guys say just goes way over my head. I have so many questions that are unanswered and am struggling to find the right answers.
I suspect im not in the right thread for all my questions on TRT but from everything I have read, you seem so knowledgable cashout.
Can I give you a quick run down on who I am what im on and a few questions about it all?
Should I start another thread on this topic else where?
Can you guys help?
Im not sure whether I should come off TRT.. I was lethargic with out TRT and on it Im fine. The only problem I have at the moment is thinking gets cloudy at times.. And a tinge of lethargy is coming back.. I think this is due to my estrogen levels being at 50 pmol/L. My doc seems to think this is ok but from what I read its too high for a 52 year old..
Anyway, shall I go in to more detail or should I start another thread on this else where in the forum?

You would do better starting your own thread

 

[Mountain Warrior]

cheers I have deleted content and put some thing much more appropriate.
"cashout I don't understand your exit strategy the way you have posted the drug dosage and breakdown.. Are you able to clarify it for us less knowledgeable ones please?"

 

[jomamma007]

anyone else think 1.25mgs letro eod is excessive? .25mg on 100mg a week TRT crashes my E
let alone whilst going through a restart

 

[UnderDosed]

it is but its not a one size fits all type of thing. I am on 1 mg of armidex a day. It is highly unlikely if you are able to get off it that your natural levels will come back to anything close what they were when you started or else you wouldn't be on it in the first place. There is a reason they say it is for life and it probably will remain that way, seeing how most research companies are not dropping mega bucks or any bucks trying to get people off trt! That is great it worked for you cash out but most people will not be able to get even half the results. Great job though and keep up the great work bro!

 

[UnderDosed]

Man those are amazing results!!!!