Myocarditis and Cardiomyopathy

[wsmwannabe]

First and foremost, please do not turn this into a thread about COVID shots, we are have plenty of those.

I was recently diagnosed with cardiomyopathy (I have an LVEF of ~40%, normal range is 50-72%). I got the first Pfizer shot on November 3rd and had mild heart pains for about 2-3 weeks after that. I did not get the second shot. about 5 weeks after the shot I was diagnosed after an echocardiogram.

I never touched gear before the age of 30 and I am 33 now, but I have run a couple of cycles of both nand and tren. When I was in my early 20's, I had lots of heart pains when I was in the USMC. I used to drink a fuck load of energy drinks and take OTC supplements like jack3d and hydroxycut, so I think it is obvious to me now why I had the heart pains. But that stopped before I even got out of the corps back in 2010. I also realized that I have had high blood pressure for about 6-7 years now (I was using a wrist BP cuff that is wildly inaccurate and didn't know it until about a week ago, but it always told me my BP was good).

I understand that myocarditis can cause cardiomyopathy, but I guess my question is: how quickly does that happen? I understand that the AAS I used likely contributed to this issue, as did the high blood pressure, so I am not trying to justify further use. I am just asking out of curiosity and for the sake of knowledge.

 

[CohibaRobusto]

If your LVEF is 40% it sounds like you already have some cardiomyopethy. But this is stuff you really should be talking to a heart doctor about.

It sounds like you were kind of predisposed to heart issues based on your history.

I got heart failure as a result of an arythmia, blasting caffeine and steroids... I've been getting better. My EF went from 25%-50% on trt doses of test, doing 30 mins of cardio with my lifting 4-5 days a week over the past 9 months.

Myocharditis probably set it off for you, and I know some of the vaccines have *rarely* caused this in people. From what I read though, it normally corrects itself pretty quickly, and also the rate of myocharditis in covid patients is significantly higher. So in other words, if you got it from the vaccine, you would have definitely gotten it from Covid.

If I were you, I'd stay on trt doses of test and just add cardio along with whatever heart meds your doctor gives you. They have me on eliquis, entresto, and toprol. I also take CoQ10.

 

[wsmwannabe]

If your LVEF is 40% it sounds like you already have some cardiomyopethy. But this is stuff you really should be talking to a heart doctor about.

It sounds like you were kind of predisposed to heart issues based on your history.

I got heart failure as a result of an arythmia, blasting caffeine and steroids... I've been getting better. My EF went from 25%-50% on trt doses of test, doing 30 mins of cardio with my lifting 4-5 days a week over the past 9 months.

Myocharditis probably set it off for you, and I know some of the vaccines have *rarely* caused this in people. From what I read though, it normally corrects itself pretty quickly, and also the rate of myocharditis in covid patients is significantly higher. So in other words, if you got it from the vaccine, you would have definitely gotten it from Covid.

If I were you, I'd stay on trt doses of test and just add cardio along with whatever heart meds your doctor gives you. They have me on eliquis, entresto, and toprol. I also take CoQ10.

Thanks for that. I think you are correct, and as much as I hate these vaccines and didn't want to do it because of the known heart issues caused by it, I have a hard time believing that the shot is what caused this level of LVEF reduction. I am continuing to work with my doc on this, and I have a stress echo scheduled for Jan 11.

I also don't believe that my blasts were the SOLE contribution to this, though they certainly didn't help.

I think this has been a long time coming. I have had exercise induced asthma since I was 18, and I am starting to think that has more to to with a low EF than it does actual asthma, which would explain why albuterol inhalers and even salbutamol don't do a ton.

@Joliver also gave me similar tips to what you just did, and I am complying with all of them at this point (I just started metropolol last night) except the TRT. I am still running 200 mg/wk which keeps me around 1000 ng/dl, but I need to bring that down to more like 125-150, which I intend to do starting tomorrow (I pin Sunday's and Wednesday's).

One thing I can say is that I had minimal LVH according to the echo.

 

[CohibaRobusto]

I think you're on the right track. As with mine, there were multiple factors involved.

I had the Moderna vaccine also, 6 months prior to my heart problems, and some (paranoid type) lay people think the vaccine caused it, but there are just so many more obvious precipitating factors for mine, that neither I, nor the doctors think the vaccine had anything to do with it.

My atrial flutter was so bad it took them like 5 days in CCU to get it down to a rate where they felt comfortable discharging me.

I have since had an ablation procedure done to fix that.

 

[wsmwannabe]

Thanks, I guess I'll have to put real strongman competing on the back burner for the time being

 

[CohibaRobusto]

Thanks, I guess I'll have to put real strongman competing on the back burner for the time being

I generally do high rep ranges 10-12 for my lifting, but I've always been hypertrophy focused more than strength since the start. My doc recommended lighter weight, more reps.

 

[wsmwannabe]

I generally do high rep ranges 10-12 for my lifting, but I've always been hypertrophy focused more than strength since the start. My doc recommended lighter weight, more reps.

I talked to my doc about changing how I lift and she told me as long as my heart doesn't bother me during lifting that I didn't have to change anything. I was lifting at an extreme intensity two months ago, and it never bothered me then, so I don't see why it would now, unless the shot did make that big of a change

 

[wsmwannabe]

Well I just bought a treadmill so that I don't have to make excuses about not being able to get LISS in

 

[CohibaRobusto]

Recovery has taken way longer than I thought it would for me, but I started at 25% EF. You're starting at 40%. That's not too bad.

I'm at about 9 months now, and at 50%. I think I'll be fine by next March. You might be too.

 

[wsmwannabe]

The goal is a quick recovery. I always hit my rehab as hard as I can. I came back from a pretty significant lat tear on October 15th and I'm already 100% again.

 

[MindlessWork]

The goal is a quick recovery. I always hit my rehab as hard as I can. I came back from a pretty significant lat tear on October 15th and I'm already 100% again.

View attachment 16445

Yikes that's scary man. Wouldn't want that to happen to anyone.

 

[almostgone]

First and foremost, please do not turn this into a thread about COVID shots, we are have plenty of those.

I was recently diagnosed with cardiomyopathy (I have an LVEF of ~40%, normal range is 50-72%). I got the first Pfizer shot on November 3rd and had mild heart pains for about 2-3 weeks after that. I did not get the second shot. about 5 weeks after the shot I was diagnosed after an echocardiogram.

I never touched gear before the age of 30 and I am 33 now, but I have run a couple of cycles of both nand and tren. When I was in my early 20's, I had lots of heart pains when I was in the USMC. I used to drink a fuck load of energy drinks and take OTC supplements like jack3d and hydroxycut, so I think it is obvious to me now why I had the heart pains. But that stopped before I even got out of the corps back in 2010. I also realized that I have had high blood pressure for about 6-7 years now (I was using a wrist BP cuff that is wildly inaccurate and didn't know it until about a week ago, but it always told me my BP was good).

I understand that myocarditis can cause cardiomyopathy, but I guess my question is: how quickly does that happen? I understand that the AAS I used likely contributed to this issue, as did the high blood pressure, so I am not trying to justify further use. I am just asking out of curiosity and for the sake of knowledge.

I can offer my experience, perhaps it will help.

After a lower spinal erector tear in ~ '06, I had bronchitis, followed by pneumonia, and felt like total hammered sh!t. Went to see my Dr because I was getting my return to work note, and he wanted to knock out my physical while I was there. Chest sounded cruddy and when he did the EKG, he about fell out of the chair.

I'm going to give you the highlights and I will say things can worsen much quicker than they can improve.

Referred to cardiologist, stress echo had my EF @11% and they asked when I had my first heart attack..Explained that I never had a heart attack. They did some blood tests and more imaging over the next week or so and they determined I had viral myocarditis caused by the coxsackie B virus.

Next several months+ was cardiac rehab, medicine adjustments, and basically the cardiologist wasn't involved/seemed to be pissed that I took ownership of my healthcare. Got pissed with cardiologist, fired his ass, got my records, and went to find a cardiologist that I could communicate with. Bottom line at that point. Left bundle branch block, cardiomyopathy, congestive heart failure, mitral valve disorder, atrial fibrillation, coagulopathy ( genetic clotting disorder), hypertension.

The new cardiologist had close ties with MUSC-C and they worked together to change my medication and installed a biventricular pacemaker. Kept pacemaker for 7 months, got staph in my blood and had to have pacemaker removed while wearing an IV pump pushing antibiotics through a midline in my right biceps and dripping the meds in 24/7.

It took about 2.5 years to get my EF back up to 40%, which most cardiologists will work with if there's a lot of heart damage.

Currently, my EF is around 43% and I stay a bit tired, but still work. Am getting back into lifting after C- spine surgery in June, but it can be done.

Your question: How quick can myocarditis weaken your heart muscle...in my experience quickly. My heat is still enlarged, but not "floppy" like it was from the cardiomyopathy.

I'm on prescribed TRT (.38mL of test cyp- 2x/week), 57 years old, but do have to keep an eye on my hematocrit because of the genetic clotting disorder ( Leiden Factor V).

It sounds like you recovered well! It's a scary f-in experience. I do still occasionally run TRT+; you guys would probably laugh at the low doses I run.

I would definitely stay clear of stims just because even if your rhythm is G2G now, you don't need the extra cardiac activation. You know how it is...an increased heart rate from exercise is totally different from revving your heart on stims.

When I was at M-USC, one of the cardiologists explained it like this. He said think of your heart as a hydraulic pump....say a floor jack. Now do you get better performance from a floor jack with slow, long steady pumps or short, choppy strokes.

Also know there are many guys with athletic heart syndrome and they have enlarged left ventricle ( and possibly atrium) and also have thickened heart walls but they are perfectly healthy. Their enlargement cones from heavy workloads. It's rather common in the strength competitors... particularly the larger guys carrying high bf/a big "power belly".

Anyway, it sound like you have done well and I hope my post helped you in some .

 

[wsmwannabe]

I can offer my experience, perhaps it will help.

After a lower spinal erector tear in ~ '06, I had bronchitis, followed by pneumonia, and felt like total hammered sh!t. Went to see my Dr because I was getting my return to work note, and he wanted to knock out my physical while I was there. Chest sounded cruddy and when he did the EKG, he about fell out of the chair.

I'm going to give you the highlights and I will say things can worsen much quicker than they can improve.

Referred to cardiologist, stress echo had my EF @11% and they asked when I had my first heart attack..Explained that I never had a heart attack. They did some blood tests and more imaging over the next week or so and they determined I had viral myocarditis caused by the coxsackie B virus.

Next several months+ was cardiac rehab, medicine adjustments, and basically the cardiologist wasn't involved/seemed to be pissed that I took ownership of my healthcare. Got pissed with cardiologist, fired his ass, got my records, and went to find a cardiologist that I could communicate with. Bottom line at that point. Left bundle branch block, cardiomyopathy, congestive heart failure, mitral valve disorder, atrial fibrillation, coagulopathy ( genetic clotting disorder), hypertension.

The new cardiologist had close ties with MUSC-C and they worked together to change my medication and installed a biventricular pacemaker. Kept pacemaker for 7 months, got staph in my blood and had to have pacemaker removed while wearing an IV pump pushing antibiotics through a midline in my right biceps and dripping the meds in 24/7.

It took about 2.5 years to get my EF back up to 40%, which most cardiologists will work with if there's a lot of heart damage.

Currently, my EF is around 43% and I stay a bit tired, but still work. Am getting back into lifting after C- spine surgery in June, but it can be done.

Your question: How quick can myocarditis weaken your heart muscle...in my experience quickly. My heat is still enlarged, but not "floppy" like it was from the cardiomyopathy.

I'm on prescribed TRT (.38mL of test cyp- 2x/week), 57 years old, but do have to keep an eye on my hematocrit because of the genetic clotting disorder ( Leiden Factor V).

It sounds like you recovered well! It's a scary f-in experience. I do still occasionally run TRT+; you guys would probably laugh at the low doses I run.

I would definitely stay clear of stims just because even if your rhythm is G2G now, you don't need the extra cardiac activation. You know how it is...an increased heart rate from exercise is totally different from revving your heart on stims.

When I was at M-USC, one of the cardiologists explained it like this. He said think of your heart as a hydraulic pump....say a floor jack. Now do you get better performance from a floor jack with slow, long steady pumps or short, choppy strokes.

Also know there are many guys with athletic heart syndrome and they have enlarged left ventricle ( and possibly atrium) and also have thickened heart walls but they are perfectly healthy. Their enlargement cones from heavy workloads. It's rather common in the strength competitors... particularly the larger guys carrying high bf/a big "power belly".

Anyway, it sound like you have done well and I hope my post helped you in some .

Wow, what a wild time you’ve had. With that said, I think I’ll be ok and think I can increase my EF back to 50%+. I have a stress echo coming up next Tuesday, so I’ll know if it has gotten better, worse, or stayed the same. I’m not sure if I can expect to see much, or any, improvement in only 5 weeks time

 

[almostgone]

Wow, what a wild time you’ve had. With that said, I think I’ll be ok and think I can increase my EF back to 50%+. I have a stress echo coming up next Tuesday, so I’ll know if it has gotten better, worse, or stayed the same. I’m not sure if I can expect to see much, or any, improvement in only 5 weeks time

Keep you thread updated, please! I'm interested in hearing your results

If your damage was minimal, you may be pleasantly surprised!!

 

[wsmwannabe]

Keep you thread updated, please! I'm interested in hearing your results

If your damage was minimal, you may be pleasantly surprised!!

Thanks, you’re certainly helping me feel better about this situation

 

[wsmwannabe]

I had a stress echo on Tuesday and found out my EF is 55%. Not 40%. Is it possible I increased my EF by 15 points in 4 weeks? Is it possible that something happened with the vax that my body was able to overcome? Is it possible that one of the two readings was a mistake?

 

[CohibaRobusto]

One of my doctors told me that the ejection fraction percentage interpretations are somewhat subject to the person reading the echo, but it's possible that all of the factors you mentioned are playing into it in my opinion.

Edit: Either way that's awesome! It means your EF is back to normal. Do you feel good?

 

[wsmwannabe]

One of my doctors told me that the ejection fraction percentage interpretations are somewhat subject to the person reading the echo, but it's possible that all of the factors you mentioned are playing into it in my opinion.

Edit: Either way that's awesome! It means your EF is back to normal. Do you feel good?

I never felt bad per se, the only reason I went to the cardio was due to heart pains, which are still occurring, but with a much lower frequency. From what I understand it takes about 2 months for some side effects of the shot to go away. And it’s been about 9-10 weeks now, so I may be “in the clear” with the heart pains.

 

[wsmwannabe]

Update:

So my heart is in a much better spot than it was in October/November. Cardiomyopathy or not, I still feel a lot better now than I did then, and I owe a huge thanks to everyone that contributed on here.

Just this morning my BP was 113/65 (back in December my BP was trending at a 65-70 point differential, this morning is only 48) and my RHR stays in the mid 50’s.

From mid feb until April 2, I ran a 650/350 test/mast cycle and my BP was stable the whole time. I have much better endurance and much less of a hard time breathing, which, I believe, is an indicator of heart health.

 

[wotmeworry]

Got pissed with cardiologist, fired his ass, got my records, and went to find a cardiologist that I could communicate with.

Good move. I did the same with a new GP "I have the medical degree, when you get yours then we'll pay attention to your opinions"

Some medicos are uncomfortable being questioned. Not to be trusted I reckon.